Can't decide 535 or 525

[fo3]

G'day from Australia. I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring here as this seems like the most active forums I could find. Besides, I know if I own a BMW in Australia I better get used to buying parts and getting help from the USA.
I've got about $5k burning a hole in my pocket and I really really want an e34 but can't decide which. Honestly I'd go for a low mileage 525 manual, but that has been too elusive (there was one on the other side of the country listed on Saturday and I was willing to fly out there on Thurs, but it sold within a day)
I don't know if these links will work so I'll add an description.

1994 525 auto https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wemb...uto/1146473833
Not in the running due to high mileage (300,000 miles) and me being worried about VANOS, but price dropped from 4k to 3k and they paid another 6 months rego ($500). I really hate those wheels.

1988/89 535 auto https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/balc...988/1141692320
King of the road, $120,000 when new. Some paint fading/cracks, mechanic owned.

I'm not interested in modifying cars much anymore, I shudder to think the amount of money I lost in my youth doing that. That said, the only mod I'd ever do is a conversion to manual, so I wonder which car is easier to do it on (I know the 535 has the advantage here with the manual pedal box and spring). The fact that the 525 on the other side of the country sold in a day while these automatic trans cars here have been on the market for a month at a lower price suggests it's worth spending 1500 on the conversion.
But anyway, besides that, I really want to find the best car as is and not modify (maybe get rid of the horrible wheels on the white 525). But I'm running out of time, I'm car less and have to move house soon.

[fo3]

Oh hey, the post is up. Been a long time since I needed to wait for admin approval.
Anyway just wanted to add that I would pay $5k+ to buy the right one, just not the time and these are the only e34s for sale in my town.
At least with these the price is low enough I'd have $2k left over for brakes, susp, maintenance etc. The only problem I wouldn't want to deal with is cyl head/bottom end/auto trans rebuilds of course, but I know how to check a car over when buying one as I've been doing it for 20years on other marques.
I probably wouldn't daily drive them, I have a falcon ute in the middle of a respray that should be finished soon but is being held up because I can't run out and get parts for it with no car.

But anyway. Would people here turn down a 535 for a later model 525, what's the preference here by experienced people?

E: Oh no, did something to the OP and it disappeared again as it needed mod approval to go up in the first place.

[M60B40Bimmer]

I think it depends on the use and location. Late 525i gets much better gas mileage than the old 535 m30 tractor motors. A 535i will be worth more later on, and will be more fun to drive personally. The late 525i is a newer motor with better technology. The old 535i m30 is a tested, but old motor with old technology. You stated that you probably would daily it, so I say the 535i is a much better choice. Not to mention the option of turbocharging in the future for massive torque and power out the old m30.

I would only get a 535i if it was manual though. The manual 535i g260/6 is a strong transmission that is fun to drive with the m30. I think if you're commuting most of the time in city, the 525i is a better choice. My old 535i got 14mpg in town, 24 highway. All my commuting was in town, so it was honestly a economical tragedy.

my $0.04.

[fo3]

Thanks. Yeah, the missing orig post mentions me thinking about a manual conversion. Both cars I'm looking at are auto so I'm stuck with that in the mean time. Really hard to get a manual. I've read somewhere that they only imported 700 manual 535s to Australia so little chance of having one unless I do the conversion myself later. And manual 525s must be reasonably rare too because one came up for sale and was sold in under 24hrs.

I'm tending towards a 1998 300,000 mile m30 535 over a 300,000 mile m50b25tu 525 for reliability though, unless being told otherwise.


E: Seems like the economy you said in mpg is about the same as the falcon 4L donk anyway, so it's not too bad (it does 15/26mpg and I've lived with that for 17 years in various ford falcons))
Please check back later when the missing first post might be put back by an admin.

[CarterH]

The 535i is better if you want more power and the M30 is pretty solid and easy to work on. Fuel consumption can be decent on rural roads though, I usually get about 11.5L per 100km from combined rural driving and city driving.

[fo3]

Yeah seems about the same as the falcon. If it's manual are you selling it? Which state are you in?

[CarterH]

Not manual unfortunately. A 535 with a manual seems to be incredibly rare, I've seen a handful of 525s with manual on gumtree from time to time though. You might be able to do a manual swap though, I hear it's relatively easy but finding a box might be difficult.

[fo3]

Yeah, as I said above, only 700 manual 535s were sold here. Had my hopes up with the man g/box being the same as the commodore, They are but apparently integral bell housing is completely different so won't fit. Same box even used in e30s, but also different integral housing, both facts according to wikipedia though.
Every manual 525 snapped up quickly, so they're pretty rare too, but doable. 535 manual unlikely forever it seems...

[CarterH]

Hmm, well I've heard of people swapping in the M30 engine into E28s and E30s and I imagine they had manual gearboxes in them already, so maybe you could find a manual from one of them?

If you're in Vic there's a guy on gumtree with a 535 manual for $4500. That's a pretty decent price for a 535 manual, the last one I saw was about $8000.

[cirrusblau]

I would only get a 535i if it was manual though. The manual 535i g260/6 is a strong transmission that is fun to drive with the m30.

Mine has been swapped with a manual and the difference is night and day. It really livened up the car and awakened the engine.

[Layne]

You can use an E28 or any other M30 transmission, but the 260 is the only one for which a driveshaft exists to use in the E34. However, that doesn't much matter if you cannot find that driveshaft anyway (unique to e34 535i), so you might as well use any of the other transmissions and have a driveshaft and shifter custom modified for it. The 265 is considered the best one. I don't remember what years if E28 you find that in. They changed several times.

Same problem with the 525i. You should easily find a transmission from an E36 325i, but the driveshaft won't work. You need the one from a 525i manual, or custom. Also more there are different transmissions for these depending on year. I think the early ZF one is more desired over the later Getrag.

[fo3]

Thanks for the info. It seems the best best for manual is a 525, as they are around and I've even seem some manual ones wrecking so 2nd/h OEM parts should be available.
With the 535, manual is as rare as hens teeth here so it would be likely to be a long term project squirreling away parts as I find them from imports, OEM new old stock maybe, or all custom, or paying an extra $$$$k for a donor car.
Still, I'm not writing a 535 off as it could still be a decent auto trans car over the years while parts are being collected.

[zkd]

Here is my 2 cents

if you want to go then 525 with M50B25 engine is good choice, it has 193 HP and 181 lb·ft torque. it is a smooth engine even in an automatic it does have some omph... having said that if you want to go to the higher range I do not recommend a M30B35 engine, if you want go for either 530 with M60B30 which has 215 hp compared to the M30B35 with is only 204 HP you get more HP for less displacement. and it's a V8.

for me I have a touring originally had an M50B25 but I swapped it for an M52B25 which gave the same HP but with more torque.

you can always get a 525 and swap out the engine for a better one.

[GregT53]

The M50 engine is among the best by BMW, in terms of durability, reliability, low cost maintenance, and ease of repairs.

[wannaBMthree]

The M50 engine is among the best by BMW, in terms of durability, reliability, low cost maintenance, and ease of repairs.

Yea if you're not planning on modifications I would go with the m50.

[CarterH]

Ah I see the original post finally appeared. I think the 535 will probably be the better option of those two considering it being mechanic owned and looking fairly original. The 525 posted has had a bit done and it could mean it was run on a tight budget and being a manual, possibly driven pretty hard. So I think look for a manual 525 for sure but an auto 535 is still a really nice compromise.

[XAlt]

Here is my 2 cents if you want to go then 525 with M50B25 engine is good choice, it has 193 HP and 181 lb·ft torque. it is a smooth engine even in an automatic it does have some omph... having said that if you want to go to the higher range I do not recommend a M30B35 engine, if you want go for either 530 with a boat anchor which has 215 hp compared to the M30B35 with is only 204 HP you get more HP for less displacement. and it's a V8..

fixed

[Layne]

Here is my 2 cents

if you want to go then 525 with M50B25 engine is good choice, it has 193 HP and 181 lb·ft torque. it is a smooth engine even in an automatic it does have some omph... having said that if you want to go to the higher range I do not recommend a M30B35 engine, if you want go for either 530 with M60B30 which has 215 hp compared to the M30B35 with is only 204 HP you get more HP for less displacement. and it's a V8.

for me I have a touring originally had an M50B25 but I swapped it for an M52B25 which gave the same HP but with more torque.

you can always get a 525 and swap out the engine for a better one.

That's pretty much the worst advice I've ever heard. The M60B30 is as reliable and tough as any other BMW engine, but it combines the V8 difficulty of service and additional parts expense with the power of a 6cyl. The M30 has drawbacks in fuel mileage, and requires valve adjustments, but it easily makes up for it with ease and low cost of maintenance. It has none of the rubber gaskets that all of the later engines have that require near constant replacement and cannot be replaced with anything but BMW parts. You could easily make all of the flat paper gaskets on an M30 if you weren't near a source of parts. It has 208hp, not 204, which means it's only 7 short of the M60B30, but has an additional 11ftlbs of torque at 500 less rpms. Personally I prefer the M60B40 over the M30B35, as it has almost 75 additional HP. I think the increased costs and difficulties are worth it for 75hp, but they are certainly not worth 7hp. BMW invented the M60B30 specifically because they needed a mid-range engine to replace the M30B35 (could no longer meet emissions standards) and it was easy to shrink a larger engine without much work. Obviously even they could see the senselessness of this design, as they abandoned it almost immediately in favor of an enlarged version of the M50 (M52 and then M54) as their mid-range engine. It has no advantages whatsoever over the M60B40, as they are virtually identical and it doesn't even get better fuel mileage. Now that all of them basically cost the same, the only reason to own an M60B30 at all is if it's local and cheap and in good condition. All other engine options have significant advantages over it.

[XAlt]

h

t.

Every 530 = 4.0 swap or go home

[zkd]

That's pretty much the worst advice I've ever heard. The M60B30 is as reliable and tough as any other BMW engine, but it combines the V8 difficulty of service and additional parts expense with the power of a 6cyl. The M30 has drawbacks in fuel mileage, and requires valve adjustments, but it easily makes up for it with ease and low cost of maintenance. It has none of the rubber gaskets that all of the later engines have that require near constant replacement and cannot be replaced with anything but BMW parts. You could easily make all of the flat paper gaskets on an M30 if you weren't near a source of parts. It has 208hp, not 204, which means it's only 7 short of the M60B30, but has an additional 11ftlbs of torque at 500 less rpms. Personally I prefer the M60B40 over the M30B35, as it has almost 75 additional HP. I think the increased costs and difficulties are worth it for 75hp, but they are certainly not worth 7hp. BMW invented the M60B30 specifically because they needed a mid-range engine to replace the M30B35 (could no longer meet emissions standards) and it was easy to shrink a larger engine without much work. Obviously even they could see the senselessness of this design, as they abandoned it almost immediately in favor of an enlarged version of the M50 (M52 and then M54) as their mid-range engine. It has no advantages whatsoever over the M60B40, as they are virtually identical and it doesn't even get better fuel mileage. Now that all of them basically cost the same, the only reason to own an M60B30 at all is if it's local and cheap and in good condition. All other engine options have significant advantages over it.

totally agree with you, but my main advice was for an m50b25, but if he insists on a 530 then go for m60b30, but if it was me I would go for the m60b40 if he can find one. the m60b30 is a compromise on the limited stock. and as you said both m60 engines have virtually the same parts. so the m30 is an old engine and it is a 6 cylinder that is only 15 hp more than the m50.

[fo3]

My head says 525, my heart says 535
I've decided against that particular 525 (high mileage and horrible wheels).

I'm going to look at the 535 on the weekend, if I fall in love with it then I'll take it from there. If I don't, then I'll get a smaller engined manual run about car for now to help me get moving, maybe non BMW, maybe a 3 series.
My other car is currently a big thirsty 6cyl automatic so I'm looking for something different though, at least something with manual trans. (E: it's a ute though, not a sedan that I need to pick up the kid with)
So I'll keep looking for a 525 man or at least an auto version in better condition and lower mileage that's worth me converting.

[CarterH]

My head says 525, my heart says 535
I've decided against that particular 525 (high mileage and horrible wheels).

I'm going to look at the 535 on the weekend, if I fall in love with it then I'll take it from there.

Back when I was looking around I went to see a few 520s and 525s and there were only two 535s. The 535 was actually last on my list of cars to see and I'd already picked the 525 but I fell in love with that 535 immediately. I actually made the guy an offer after the test drive and picked it up a few days later.

[fo3]

The 535i owner has dropped his price to 1500. And it seems manual parts are easier than I thought. Ever heard of or been to this place? http://www.peninsulabm.com/bmw-wrecks/browse/E34/535I
I didn't notice it before because no ".au" on their site, but seems it's in Vic, Australia
Seems like bad drivers are putting all the manuals in their yard!

Also got a shot at another 525 auto for 2500. Full 26 year service history, new rad, pump and rebuilt cylinder head- someone did a whoopsie.

[CarterH]

The 535i owner has dropped his price to 1500. And it seems manual parts are easier than I thought. Ever heard of or been to this place? http://www.peninsulabm.com/bmw-wrecks/browse/E34/535I
I didn't notice it before because no ".au" on their site, but seems it's in Vic, Australia
Seems like bad drivers are putting all the manuals in their yard!

Also got a shot at another 525 auto for 2500. Full 26 year service history, new rad, pump and rebuilt cylinder head- someone did a whoopsie.

Very interesting link, I might need to take a look at what parts they offer. The pricing will probably be pretty daunting though.

[fo3]

Wasn't impressed with the 535i I saw. Power seemed down, like a 2L engine. That's just my feeling because it weighs about the same as the commodore I drove there (1500kg), and it shouldn't feel so much slower (commodore 170kw, this should have 155kw so should be in the same ballpark). Paint was knackered but so is every one I've seen australia wide, especially the manual versions for some reason. Passenger side heater seemed stuck on which can be pricey if it's not the valve could be the computer or controller.
Looking at a 525 tomorrow. If that feels quicker then it confirms my feelings about that 535. If not, then back to square one, but maybe that doesn't have the paint and heater problems...

Might have to wait or fly interstate for the right one it seems and get something else to tide me over.