1982 BMW 323i... a Story in the Making.

[jr02518]

Another note on the 323 struts, the top hat is flat. To make the bumper height requirements the 4 cyld. cars were pressed in with what looks like half a grapefruit, when compared to the 6 cyld. top hats.

Depending on what you find when you take the car apart you might be able to have them rebuilt, I had my set rebuilt at Bilestein. Yes, it was not cheep but these parts are NLA and if spending money on items like this causes you to blink you are at the front end of a curve that is only going to get steeper.

On an other note, I would start the search for a set of control arms now. They were getting thin on the ground back when I was looking for them. I think you will find them to be the same used on the early E21's up to '79. Unless you plan to only use this as a "race car", keep the rubber mounts in it.

[MortyCrock]

Yea, The parts car I’ve mentioned has the 323i Bilstein Sports, and I was going to send them off to get rebuilt.

I talked to the Bilstein Rep at Bimmerfest last year, and he said it was between $100-$120 a piece to have that done, and I was completely prepared to do that cause they’re NLA.

Now, with the parts car being a pipe dream, I’m looking at other options. My actual car just had stock suspension on it.

Good to know about the control arms, I’ll start to do some research on that.

Keep the conversation going, guys! I’m learning a lot!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jr02518]

Now your next hard point to work with is the amount of room around the top hats when installed in the car. With the stock springs there is very little room to add negative camber based on the shape of the strut towers. Going to a "Ground Control" spring perch means going to a coil over, means adding a threaded caller to the strut tube.

Or, you run the H&R springs and spend the money you have saved on the body work and paint.

Sway bar for the front, the largest I found was again for the early E21 is a 29mm. I will be adding the Ireland Engineering " Alpina Bar" to the front end with that I am done.

[MortyCrock]

Yea, body work is the next major stage for the car, but I still need to sell my ‘88 535is before that can happen. At this point, I’m seriously considering just fixing the problem areas, and doing just a primer over it, and leaving it as is. Then, finish working out the rest of the kinks of the car, getting in running/driving, THEN send it in for a glass out repaint. At that point, I’ll be able to devote an appropriate amount of money to a good paint job, vs just paint the rear half of the car, which is where all the body work will be done.

Course... this is all thinking out loud at this point.

Per the sway bars, I know my car has front/rear sways, I just don’t know if I’m gonna go bigger just yet. Probably just get it running/driving and enjoy it for the time being, then do some AutoX or track stuff, and modify as necessary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hotdish]

Yea, body work is the next major stage for the car, but I still need to sell my ‘88 535is before that can happen. At this point, I’m seriously considering just fixing the problem areas, and doing just a primer over it, and leaving it as is. Then, finish working out the rest of the kinks of the car, getting in running/driving, THEN send it in for a glass out repaint.

My 323i is in pretty bad aesthetic condition, but I daily drive it (when the salt is off the roads). For me, having a car running and driving is the biggest motivator to keep working on it.

People that talk to me about it care much more about the fact that it's a gray market import than the visual condition.

[MortyCrock]

My 323i is in pretty bad aesthetic condition, but I daily drive it (when the salt is off the roads). For me, having a car running and driving is the biggest motivator to keep working on it.

People that talk to me about it care much more about the fact that it's a gray market import than the visual condition.

agreed. That’s why I’m more inclined to just do the body work and worry about paint later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Somjuan]

Moosehead engineering does universal control arm bushings that are used by the e28 crowd, and those are supposedly pretty great upgrades even for a daily. I'd do something similar if you're not into the rubber.

[DougIng]

Studying the Bilstein app guide a little more and the E30 B6 HD inserts are pretty close to 320i inserts. Too bad this guide doesn’t have 323i Sports. For the E30 Bilstein did not distinguish between 318i and 325e/i.

E21 320i B8 front: 519/633mm (collapsed/extended)
E30 B6: 517/612.5
E30 B8: 515/594.5

The E30 HD are still about 15% softer than the 320i Sport. Is stiffer better?

I have Bilsteins in my 323i from the PO but not sure which ones. H&Rs are going in soon though.

[DougIng]

...My setup was H&R sports all around with e30 M3/6cyl Billy Sports and K-Mac adjustable hats in the front, e21 Billy Sports in the rear, stock sways with urethane everywhere.

Did you like the KMacs? Thinking about trying them instead of stock mounts.

[Greenfield]

I did like the K-Macs.
They were fairly quiet compared to an all metal adjustable top hat...just enough urethane to cushion without being "clangy". Good adjustment with caster/camber, but not as much adjustment as a GC top hat and dedicated coilover setup.
What I mean by that is, because the K-Mac is a spherical adjustment, if you dial in "all" the negative camber available with the K-Macs you will lose caster adjustment, and vice versa... I ran NEARLY zero toe at the front (definitely TWO hands on the wheel at all times! Lol), moderate positive caster for a bit extra negative camber when turning, and roughly -1.1 degree up front. With H&R sports springs all around dropping the car approximately 1.5 in up front and 1.75 in the rear, I ended up with roughly -2 degrees in the rear. Balanced it all out with the K-Macs and fooling around with tire pressures.
I ran the stock 323 sways with urethane in the subframe and sway bar mounts...the bigger (biggest) bars and slotted rear subframe with eccentrics were on my honey do list...but, I really liked the setup as it sat.
IMHO, the only real downside to the K-Macs is the added height of the top hat itself. It was not dramatic, but adding the K-Macs definitely added back some of the height I had dropped with the H&R kit. Not at all a deal breaker, and visually barely noticeable.. to the best of my memory.
Also, make sure your steering rack bushings are not perished, and the rag joint in the steering column is not on it's way out. If those components are original then they may start to fail faster as steering loads are increased with caster, stiffer springs, etc.

[MortyCrock]

I did like the K-Macs.
They were fairly quiet compared to an all metal adjustable top hat...just enough urethane to cushion without being "clangy". Good adjustment with caster/camber, but not as much adjustment as a GC top hat and dedicated coilover setup.
What I mean by that is, because the K-Mac is a spherical adjustment, if you dial in "all" the negative camber available with the K-Macs you will lose caster adjustment, and vice versa... I ran NEARLY zero toe at the front (definitely TWO hands on the wheel at all times! Lol), moderate positive caster for a bit extra negative camber when turning, and roughly -1.1 degree up front. With H&R sports springs all around dropping the car approximately 1.5 in up front and 1.75 in the rear, I ended up with roughly -2 degrees in the rear. Balanced it all out with the K-Macs and fooling around with tire pressures.
I ran the stock 323 sways with urethane in the subframe and sway bar mounts...the bigger (biggest) bars and slotted rear subframe with eccentrics were on my honey do list...but, I really liked the setup as it sat.
IMHO, the only real downside to the K-Macs is the added height of the top hat itself. It was not dramatic, but adding the K-Macs definitely added back some of the height I had dropped with the H&R kit. Not at all a deal breaker, and visually barely noticeable.. to the best of my memory.
Also, make sure your steering rack bushings are not perished, and the rag joint in the steering column is not on it's way out. If those components are original then they may start to fail faster as steering loads are increased with caster, stiffer springs, etc.

How was the ride quality with that set up? Seems like that's pretty close to what I'm looking for, when its all said and done. I was planning on replacing most bushings with urethane, but I don't want the ride bad enough that my wife never wants to ride in it.

[DougIng]

Great write-up! You have me re-thinking stock mounts now. H&R’s arrived last week and car is on jack stands now.

[Greenfield]

The set up on my 323 felt like it belonged on the car...never fit the larger sways, so I don't know how it would have performed with low speed side to side changes...I.e. pulling into and out of sloped parking lots...but, on the road and in the Twisties it was nearly perfect, imho.
D.C. has famously bad streets. Third world quality streets, and the 323 did NOT like them. No car built 30+ years ago will get along with these streets, but out of town the car was smooth and composed.
I considered urethane in the subframe and the diff mount, but after running the urethane diff mount and "soup can" bushings in my e28 535 and experiencing the roar and drone of that setup, I am glad I went with HD rubber mounts on the 323.
I love an aggressive setup, but I have found that on the street too aggressive can be a deal breaker for me....humble opinion, sorry.
Joel

[MortyCrock]

The set up on my 323 felt like it belonged on the car...never fit the larger sways, so I don't know how it would have performed with low speed side to side changes...I.e. pulling into and out of sloped parking lots...but, on the road and in the Twisties it was nearly perfect, imho.
D.C. has famously bad streets. Third world quality streets, and the 323 did NOT like them. No car built 30+ years ago will get along with these streets, but out of town the car was smooth and composed.
I considered urethane in the subframe and the diff mount, but after running the urethane diff mount and "soup can" bushings in my e28 535 and experiencing the roar and drone of that setup, I am glad I went with HD rubber mounts on the 323.
I love an aggressive setup, but I have found that on the street too aggressive can be a deal breaker for me....humble opinion, sorry.
Joel

Nope, Joel, you are just fine. When I had e36, I did everything wrong with the suspension since it was my DD. my 323 isn't going to be my DD, but i'm going to be doing some summer track days, and I want to be semi competitive without sacrificing normal drive quality. Opinions offered in this way are exactly what I'm looking for, and I appreciate it, thanks.

[austin8753]

I don't want the ride bad enough that my wife never wants to ride in it.

I see zero problem here.

[MortyCrock]

I see zero problem here.

yea yea... I know your opinion already.

Hey, know anyone with some cheap Style 5s? I know some idiot who wants to buy some.

[lsvco.]

yea yea... I know your opinion already.

Hey, know anyone with some cheap Style 5s? I know some idiot who wants to buy some.

Phew, for a second I thought you were talking about me 🙈 I should probably get mine running first.....

[StevenHenriksen]

It's great to see this 323 rescued from a mossy grave! It's also cool to see more local people messing around with the unloved E21 chassis. I'm hoping to see it out and about eventually. If you are interested, I have a full set of bilstein sports and H&R springs from a 323. They would need rebuilding/refinishing to be perfect, but I would sell the set cheap

[MortyCrock]

You have a PM, sir!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MortyCrock]

Been a hot minute, but things are moving forward! If at a snails pace...

But! I found more rust




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MortyCrock]

Also... this happened.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[anthony27]

Did you put in in yet?

[2002jm]

Morgan: Are you planning on rebuilding the engine; or were you able to get the other race engine from the other 323i?
See you at 5erWest...what are you driving down there?
jm

[MortyCrock]

Hey John! The block of the original b23 is beyond saving, in my opinion, so I won’t be rebuilding it.

Current plan is to enjoy the b25 and eventually find a euro eta bottom (playing the long game on that one) to match with my 731 head I just acquired

I haven’t officially given up on the Matthes car, but I’m not pining for it anymore. It’ll be a cold day in hell before I get that car, I think.

I’ll definitely be there, but I’ll be in my 325it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[2002jm]

ok, that is too bad; thought you were set up to get the Matthes car. One of these days I would like to go out there just for fun to see all those cars in the forest
I was hoping to bring the m-tech e34; but that will not happen until next year.
See you in July,
jm