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Thread: Anyone who has bought or sold a M3 recently...

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Seattle, WA
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    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    So I was just able to get my policy through an independent Safeco dealer. 15K agreed value on the M3 for the time being, and I also moved my other car and homeowners over. Even with the agreed value policy, it's considerably less than what I was paying with State Farm (for my other car too).

    It wasn't much of a hassle. I told them I drive it 3-4 times during each week on a 9 mile round trip to the park and ride, and then for fun on weekends. My wife and I use our other car for errands and trips. I sent them a list of mods and some pics and there weren't any questions about the value I was asking for.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Durham, NC
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    98M3/4/5 SpeedMiata
    I just went with Hagerty myself. Yes, they expect a greater than 1:1 ratio of cars to drivers. So sharing is no bueno. You basically have to own two yourself, and they won't insure your "regular" driver. They have a way to pull up VIN data of all your cars and more on-line. It was a little scary how easily they got access to lots of information that I didn't give them. It seemed they might even be able to access annual mileage put on your vehicles, perhaps by looking at the delta in inspection reports they can pull up? It was also a strange process to negotiate the terms. For instance, I can park in either my secure garage or the attached carport that's built like a lean-to off the side. But, that costs more (about $50 annually). They seem to have an actuarial table for everything. Ask for more and they charge more, up to a point. When I said I'd drive it to work more than 20 times per year AND I wanted my teenage son listed (who only operates it with me, but still #newdriver) they said that's too many risk factors: they said choose one or the other, although honestly I felt like they knew I'd keep my son listed and agree to fewer than 20 work trips. That work trip limit felt kind of non-negotiable in actuality. So, it's definitely not anything like getting a typical insurance policy. But it was a pleasant process and getting $15K of coverage was no issue. My actual cash value policy that I had through Erie, which would have only paid out like $6-7K probably, was $508/year. Hagerty is $540 for my combination of circumstances.
    Current:
    98 M3/4/5 Alpine/Magma
    05 MazdaSpeed Miata

    Sold:

    00 Honda VFR
    99 528iT M/T
    98 M3/4/5 Arctic/Dove
    94 R-package Miata
    89 Honda NT650

    87 325is turned SpecE30

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Sammamish, WA
    Posts
    877
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    1998 M3/4/5
    Thanks for sharing your experiences Ex36! I got a quote from Hagerty but haven't gotten off my duff to actually start a policy yet.
    1998 Titanium/Dove M3/4/5
    2020 Toyota 4Runner

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    mid-atlantic
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    70's p-cars
    My brother lost 4 cars to these in the same storm. Totalled, all of them.


  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Durham, NC
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    That is an unbelievable hail "stone." More like a hail boulder! Sorry for your brother. I got caught out in a hail storm once and it was such a helpless feeling, only made better because I had the car I don't care about with me. Had I been in the M3 I probably would have been trying in vain to lay across it or something. Of course, what totaled your brother's cars would also brain a person! Where does he live?
    Current:
    98 M3/4/5 Alpine/Magma
    05 MazdaSpeed Miata

    Sold:

    00 Honda VFR
    99 528iT M/T
    98 M3/4/5 Arctic/Dove
    94 R-package Miata
    89 Honda NT650

    87 325is turned SpecE30

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Denver, CO
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    5,343
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    '98 M3
    All three of my cars have been hail damaged. My wife's SUV got $16k worth of damage, my SUV got $20k worth of damage. The M3 looked bad but was able to be completely fixed by a very talented paintless dent removal guy. So at least the M3 didn't get any paint/body work done and still has its original OEM paint/panels.

    All three are garaged at home but when you're out and about, there's nothing you can do.
    '03 911 Turbo 6MT fun car
    '18 Toyota Land Cruiser Daily driver/Ski Machine/Off Roader
    '15 Cayenne Diesel Wife's DD
    '17 KTM 690 "Adv" 2 wheeled Adventurer

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    mid-atlantic
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    70's p-cars
    It happened just southwest of Denver about a month ago. Ran a swath of about 2x2 miles. Killed every car that was out. Punched out all the skylights in his house and motorhome. Destroyed the roof on the house and all the landscaping. Lots of bloody people but apparently no one seriously injured, thankfully.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Centennial, CO: S'port, LA
    Posts
    4,267
    My Cars
    95 M3 - 03 325i - 68 Bug
    I won't go into details, but transport damaged my M3, insurance went with "wholesale/auction" value, which any appraiser will tell you is not proper retail market value.

    I fought this to the point my insurance actually said to hire a third-party appraisal company, and have them literally regurgitate my findings of comparables, etc. As it needed to be coming from a certified vehicle appraiser. So I did exactly that, explained my collectors car was damaged in transit and am being given costs that couldn't even afford a local M3 with 200k+ miles.

    Value went from $6,3k @165k miles to $11k. Third-party appraisal cost me shy of $1k out of pocket, which is submitted to my insurance and returned via subrogation process due to their lack of completing the job themselves. Also looking at loss of use for transport's insurance denying me a rental vehicle being a cargo claim...not how it works. Looking at 100+ days loss of use at $42/day rate with current CO rental rates. Third-party appraiser goes for total loss value, and loss of use if applicable.

    Hope this helps. Don't settle for chit!!

    Sorry about the hail too, the news mentioned it coming so I rode light rail to work that day with the commoners
    Last edited by SneauxM3; 05-25-2017 at 11:03 PM.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    35
    My Cars
    95 M3
    After reading this and having my M3 in the shop for hail damage right now, I will be switching to Hagerty or Safeco. I was worried sick that they were going to total my car(Geico) but that's not the case at the moment.

    It's my 2nd vehicle, so I shouldn't have a problem with that. Also, only have driven it maybe 20 miles in 2 months.

    The one day I didn't check the weather, and also left the M3 outside at home, it gets pounded with hail. Very dumb mistake!

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    95
    My Cars
    97 M3/4, 15 Accord Sport
    I'll throw another shout out for Haggerty. They will insure your car up to a stated value that's realistic of your collector car's actual replacement cost. And their premium was actually cheaper than what I was paying at State Farm for a regular policy - which probably would have only given me KBB wholesale should something have happened.

    The only drawback is you can't insure a daily driver through Haggerty. Mine is a secondary car that only goes a few thousand miles a year at most. So it was perfect for me, but it might not work if you drive your car everyday.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    greenwood sc
    Posts
    395
    My Cars
    1999 m3 convertible 5spd
    I use American collectors insurance for my collector cars. It was recommended by USAA, my regular insurer. I have never had to file a claim, but the premiums seem competitive and the restrictions reasonable. You never know until it is time for them to cut a check.

  12. #37
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    Sep 2009
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    Colorado Springs
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    Black
    Quote Originally Posted by Slater126 View Post
    I'll throw another shout out for Haggerty. They will insure your car up to a stated value that's realistic of your collector car's actual replacement cost. And their premium was actually cheaper than what I was paying at State Farm for a regular policy - which probably would have only given me KBB wholesale should something have happened.

    The only drawback is you can't insure a daily driver through Haggerty. Mine is a secondary car that only goes a few thousand miles a year at most. So it was perfect for me, but it might not work if you drive your car everyday.
    Stated and agreed value policies are not the same. Stated value is just about worthless imho.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Denver
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    95 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by weedshoes View Post
    Stated and agreed value policies are not the same. Stated value is just about worthless imho.
    When I switch, I should be going for an agreed value policy, correct?

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Seattle, WA
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    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    Yes, you want an agreed value policy, which you'll often find listed as a collector car policy at major insurers. You tell your insurance company what value you want when you get the policy, and they give you a yes/no before you even get the policy. Any negotiation on value happens at that point when you first get the policy. Then, if it's ever a total loss you file a claim and get that value back without any hassle or claims adjusters or anything.

    I was able to get a $15K agreed value on my modded 1999 M3 with no questions on the value (I just sent them pics and a list of upgrades and their costs).
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 06-06-2017 at 02:12 PM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  15. #40
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    Apr 2017
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    Denver
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    95 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post
    Yes, you want an agreed value policy, which you'll often find listed as a collector car policy at major insurers. You tell your insurance company what value you want when you get the policy, and they give you a yes/no before you even get the policy. Any negotiation on value happens at that point when you first get the policy. Then, if it's ever a total loss you file a claim and get that value back without any hassle or claims adjusters or anything.

    I was able to get a $15K agreed value on my modded 1999 M3 with no questions on the value (I just sent them pics and a list of upgrades and their costs).
    Right on, thanks for the info! My homeowners insurance is with Safeco, so maybe that'll help as well.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Tampa, FL
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    97 E36M3 S54
    I got a quote through safeco with an AGREED upon value of $20k for my 97 E36 M3. They didn't ask me for any pics or proof etc which I thought was interested. The quoted price was very reasonable and I'll be switching over soon!

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by M52 POWER! View Post
    I got a quote through safeco with an AGREED upon value of $20k for my 97 E36 M3. They didn't ask me for any pics or proof etc which I thought was interested. The quoted price was very reasonable and I'll be switching over soon!
    They'll probably ask you for pics and more info once the underwriters get involved. For instance, they wanted pictures of my garage showing where it's kept, and so forth.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Denver
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    67
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    95 m3
    Thank you to everyone who sent PM's of their purchases/sales. I'll try recap my experience and give some tips to close out this thread.

    TL/DR - definitely get yourself into an agreed value policy if you can.

    If you didn't get yourself an agreed valued policy, clean the car up before the adjuster gets there. They are looking for every excuse to de-value the car, don't give them any. I cleaned the interior and gave the car a quick wipe down and it helped increase the condition the car was given. Clean up any fogging in the headlights stuff like that.

    The value you they give you from whatever computer/book they look up in is just a starting point, it is not an end all be all number. Find comparable cars through the same platform your insurance company gives you comparables through, my insurance company only accepted comparables from autotrader. Double check whatever comparables they send you, I did a search of the vins they gave and they "mis-typed" the value of half the cars they sent. Keep your receipts for mods, these seemed to add value regardless of age. Service records didn't seem to matter much unless they were for major rebuilds of some kind. Depending on the insurance company and how many cars are affected (in my case nearly all of denver was affected so insurance companies were in scramble mode) they will play all sorts of games changing comparables and agents around and draw it out, don't be afraid to mention your insurance commissioners name and contact them for help and advice.

    Feel free to PM me with questions.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Austin, TX
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    2,180
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    S54 E36 M3, E32 740il
    Quote Originally Posted by SneauxM3 View Post
    I won't go into details, but transport damaged my M3, insurance went with "wholesale/auction" value, which any appraiser will tell you is not proper retail market value.

    I fought this to the point my insurance actually said to hire a third-party appraisal company, and have them literally regurgitate my findings of comparables, etc. As it needed to be coming from a certified vehicle appraiser. So I did exactly that, explained my collectors car was damaged in transit and am being given costs that couldn't even afford a local M3 with 200k+ miles.

    Value went from $6,3k @165k miles to $11k. Third-party appraisal cost me shy of $1k out of pocket, which is submitted to my insurance and returned via subrogation process due to their lack of completing the job themselves. Also looking at loss of use for transport's insurance denying me a rental vehicle being a cargo claim...not how it works. Looking at 100+ days loss of use at $42/day rate with current CO rental rates. Third-party appraiser goes for total loss value, and loss of use if applicable.

    Hope this helps. Don't settle for chit!!

    Sorry about the hail too, the news mentioned it coming so I rode light rail to work that day with the commoners
    I don't know how I missed this thread earlier this year.

    I've had to go through this process twice, and have barely squeaked through both times (with some less-than-ideal compromises, but nothing I couldn't live with).

    This advice on hiring a third-party appraiser is the best advice I've seen on this topic. Those of us with a dog in this fight have likely gone through similar trouble finding real comps and documenting major service / upgrades, and have all likely gotten similar responses from the insurance companies (they don't count for anything). It seems as though the third-party appraiser approach makes a significant difference.

    While I appreciate the benefits of using an agreed-value policy, for me the restrictions required effectively make them useless. I dearly love my car, but I whole-heartedly subscribe to the supermodel analogy of vehicle ownership. What's the point of having it if I can't drive it?

    I've resigned myself to just starting over the next time I'm in any kind of accident, possibly buying the car back and switching over everything I can (which yes, is also incredibly shitty to have to do).

    This is the first bit of hope I've seen that I might be able to get enough value for the car that it won't get totaled the next time this happens (which is really my only goal - obviously not trying to cash out here).

    Really, really good advice Sneaux!

    -Josh: 1998 S54 E36 M3/4/6 with most of the easy stuff and most of the hard stuff. At least twice. 271k miles. 1994 E32 740il with nothing but some MPars. 93k miles.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by blckstrm View Post
    While I appreciate the benefits of using an agreed-value policy, for me the restrictions required effectively make them useless. I dearly love my car, but I whole-heartedly subscribe to the supermodel analogy of vehicle ownership. What's the point of having it if I can't drive it?
    There are policies out there from companies other than Hagerty which will allow you to more or less daily the car, as long as you aren't putting tons of miles on it or anything. They just aren't super easy to find since you really have to talk to an agent to get the lowdown. I told Safeco when I got my policy that I drive my car 8 or so miles round trip around 4 times a week to work, and drive it occasionally on weekends or for fun, but no more than 3000-3500 miles per year (didn't mention the track but that's none of their business since I wouldn't make any claims from track use). They were fine with that. I think as long as you have another vehicle for family/grocery-getting use (as I do), they don't really care if you still drive the fancy car regularly.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 01-04-2018 at 07:03 PM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  21. #46
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    Apr 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by TostitoBandito View Post
    There are policies out there from companies other than Hagerty which will allow you to more or less daily the car, as long as you aren't putting tons of miles on it or anything. They just aren't super easy to find since you really have to talk to an agent to get the lowdown. I told Safeco when I got my policy that I drive my car 8 or so miles round trip around 4 times a week to work, and drive it occasionally on weekends or for fun, but no more than 3000-3500 miles per year (didn't mention the track but that's none of their business since I wouldn't make any claims from track use). They were fine with that. I think as long as you have another vehicle for family/grocery-getting use (as I do), they don't really care if you still drive the fancy car regularly.

    Same with me and Safeco, I have a 6k mile/year limit which works fine.

    One thing I keep wondering about, maybe somebody here can chime in on: How do they know how many miles I drive a year and if I go over 6k miles anyways?

    I do all my own maintenance etc so it's never into a shop that could report it so...?

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Durham, NC
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    98M3/4/5 SpeedMiata
    When I went with Hagerty I know they had instant on-line access to NC inspections, which logged my mileage every year I took it in to renew registration.
    Current:
    98 M3/4/5 Alpine/Magma
    05 MazdaSpeed Miata

    Sold:

    00 Honda VFR
    99 528iT M/T
    98 M3/4/5 Arctic/Dove
    94 R-package Miata
    89 Honda NT650

    87 325is turned SpecE30

  23. #48
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    Apr 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ex36 View Post
    When I went with Hagerty I know they had instant on-line access to NC inspections, which logged my mileage every year I took it in to renew registration.
    In FL there are no inspections. Maybe its when I have a claim they ask for mileage proof and divide the years by last reported mileage and get the average?

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by M52 POWER! View Post
    In FL there are no inspections. Maybe its when I have a claim they ask for mileage proof and divide the years by last reported mileage and get the average?
    Correct. If you have to file a claim the shop invoices and whatnot will note the mileage, and they can do math from when you got the policy. If it's more than the mileage you're paying for, they'll probably just increase the cost of your policy and adjust your mileage cap.

    I'm not sure if mileage is logged in my state during my emissions tests every other year, but it probably is. That won't be an issue anymore once my car is 25 years old though (bye bye cats).
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 01-05-2018 at 04:03 PM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  25. #50
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    Jul 2005
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    Very useful info in this thread.. didn't used to be so relevant, but now that the E36 M3 is getting so old it definitely matters! I had to struggle to get state farm to give me an agreed value policy for antique/classic but eventually the agent was able to push it through. I think I may have my mileage a bit low, but we'll see how it goes. Huge monthly savings over a normal policy, which made sense for me because I hardly drive it. And I know if something happened, I won't have to haggle back and forth forever on the value. Highly recommend these types of policies if the car is not your DD.

    Interesting about the 3rd party appraiser.. really sucks your insurance company pushed you to that point though.

    1997 M3 (SOLD) :o 2000 528i Sport (SOLD)

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