OK, so what front kick panel component speakers do we like now?

[Boltface]

There seems to be some oddness happening because I am unable to fit speakers that others report drop right in. I tried Kicker 5 1/4s mentioned elsewhere; they did not fit. I just received and tried to fit the Sound Ordnance kit that Crutchfield says fits... same issue; the mounting tabs' maximum diameter is a few mm to narrow for the screws to drop into the holes. I could cut the ends of the tabs off and fit washers under the screws to distribute the load, but it doesn't seem like others are having the same issue.

I recently installed the Sound Ord speakers and had to cut out the ends of the tabs as I had read someone else did. I didn't see any need for washers. It's been about two months now and all is well.

[Llama]

Well, I need all the respect I can get these days, so thanks!

There seems to be some oddness happening because I am unable to fit speakers that others report drop right in. I tried Kicker 5 1/4s mentioned elsewhere; they did not fit. I just received and tried to fit the Sound Ordnance kit that Crutchfield says fits... same issue; the mounting tabs' maximum diameter is a few mm to narrow for the screws to drop into the holes. I could cut the ends of the tabs off and fit washers under the screws to distribute the load, but it doesn't seem like others are having the same issue.

Llama, did your car have the Harman Kardon factory system or the non-HK variant? Mine is HK and I don't believe I specified that earlier. BMW lists two different part numbers for HK and non-HK systems. Perhaps that accounts for the different experiences we're having?

Hi TD,

My roadster has the HK factory system.

[tigerdog2000]

OK, scratch HK / non-HK ans the possible difference. To convince myself that I'm not 100% nuts, I took my car apart again, took photos and measurements of the original speaker vs the Sound Ordnance. Using a caliper, the outside-to-outside of the bolt holes:
Harman Kardon: 149mm
Sound Ordnance: 143mm
IMG_20170715_142000608.jpgIMG_20170715_143118185.jpg

In an earlier post, it was suggested to move the clip nuts inward a little. As you can see in the picture below, the factory installation uses nylon bindings, pressed firmly into holes, not clip nuts, with no radial adjustment. Without cutting/grinding the slot open, the S.O. does not fit. I held the S.O. by hand to show how far out of alignment the tabs/holes are. There's also an air gap between the S.O. frame and the car body. This would need to be filled with some kind of gasket or seal to stop back-radiation and get decent bass out of the speakers.
IMG_20170715_141303269.jpg

I'd have to cut the tabs off the speaker and install it in with some kind of gasket/sealant before I could decide if I liked the sound. If I don't like the sound, I'm screwed. CF will only accept a returned product if it's in the original condition and packaging.

[z3forlife]

Ya it's been a while since I did this forgot about the plastic nuts. I did have to use a small bit of dynamat to seal an edge. It's the difference in frame size/design. It looks like you may be able to reclock the speaker and drill your own mounting holes though. Aftermarket has so many variations but now you know what you're looking for. Some folks have gone to 6.5's. Some require cutting some don't.

[tigerdog2000]

At my age (yes, I am that old...) I don't get as much pleasure from hacking and fettling as I once did, especially when a reputable company says there's a simple solution. Regarding the Sound Ordnance, Crutchfield admitted the error in their fitment guide, accepted the return and gave me a $25 credit for my trouble. Class company!

When shopping for kick-panel speakers, then, it seems 5.25" drivers with open-slotted tabs should be easier to fit. I've ordered a pair of DS18 EXL-SQ5.25 from Amazon. ; assuming depth isn't an issue, they should be an easier fit. Cast frames, slotted tabs, large-ish magnets, GRP cones. The coaxial tweeter may not be helpful but if they're too bright, and otherwise satisfactory, I'll cut the tweeter lead. So, more to come!

[z3forlife]

Yeah without dimensional drawings it will be difficult to tell which speaker will fit properly. I'm not as aware as I used to be of the current brands that are the best in terms of quality. I went with M B Quart pro speakers initially and purchased one of the last sets of German made speakers available. The passenger side kick panel speaker didn't last long and I ended up replacing the 5 1/4 speakers with Alpine S series. I kept the MBQ tweeters in the door they're tweeter fits the midrange hole perfectly. I also kept the crossover as it was tuned to my liking. The real weak point of our cars stereos unfortunately is the amplifier followed by the sub. Head unit is ok if it fits your need as well as wiring unless you're going high wattage. I'm running 90 watts x 4 and 300 to the sub. I did run monster cable to it but it's really easy and only a couple feet away from the amp. I assume you've tried to align the speaker at different clock setting to see if it will line up with stock mounting points. One old fart to another

[tigerdog2000]

I assume you've tried to align the speaker at different clock setting to see if it will line up with stock mounting points. One old fart to another

Tried that but it's not a matter of orientation, its dimensions are too far off to work without modification. The photos in my post illustrate the difference.

[potxoli]

When shopping for kick-panel speakers, then, it seems 5.25" drivers with open-slotted tabs should be easier to fit. I've ordered a pair of DS18 EXL-SQ5.25 from Amazon. ; assuming depth isn't an issue, they should be an easier fit. Cast frames, slotted tabs, large-ish magnets, GRP cones. The coaxial tweeter may not be helpful but if they're too bright, and otherwise satisfactory, I'll cut the tweeter lead. So, more to come!

Let us know if you like those amazon speakers. Mine are also shot and have been looking at this thread with interest.

[tigerdog2000]

IMG_20170716_210022831.jpgT
he Amazon speakers arrived. They look promising: the frames are cast aluminum, not stamped steel. +1 for durability. The surround is rubber, not foam, +2 for durability, and it's a reverse-roll, like the original, so there's less chance of rubbing against the kick panel on excursion. The mounting tabs are slotted and 146.6mm at the extremes. This should be just about the same as the stock speakers' mounting center. Tweeter crossover is a simple 2.7uF NPE capacitor, simple to snip if the are too bright. Sorry to keep you in suspense to see how they sound, but installation will have to wait for my return from this week's business trip. Bummer!

[tigerdog2000]

Finally! Speakers that don't break the bank, drop in with no drilling, cutting or filing, and sound pretty darned good! The DS18 EXL-SQ5.25 seem to be the item of choice for lazy people who just want stuff to work. As the previous photo showed, the cast frame has open-ended mounting tabs, so there was no fettling required. The drivers themselves are slightly larger than the HK units. They are less deep than the originals, so there's no issue at all with fitment. The magnets are a LOT stronger than the drivers I removed, and stronger than the Rockford Fosgate and Sound Ordnance, so keep a good grip and watch your tools when mounting. I used a battery to validate that the absolute polarity (+/-) is the same as the original drivers, and the factory spade connectors just pushed on.
IMG_20170722_124312717.jpg
IMG_20170722_124440695.jpg
IMG_20170722_124514577_TOP.jpg
There's a small air gap between the frame and the car body. Before I installed the speakers, I applied a length of rope caulk / weatherstrip cord. If you don't know this stuff, find it in the paint section of your local hardware store. It was used to seal gaps around house windows before silicone and latex caulk came along. For speakers, it's great. Just sticky enough to adhere to drivers, flexible and squishy enough to fill gaps when you tighten down the mounting screws, and it never dries out, so there's no issue if the driver ever needs to be removed. Oh, and $5 buys a lifetime supply. I partially inserted a bottom screw, slid one mounting tab in place, lined up equidistant from the four holes, inserted the remaining screws and tightened. That's it! almost...
IMG_20170722_133403426.jpgIMG_20170722_135355908.jpg

These drivers are notably brighter than the stock HKs, especially with the coax tweeter. There's a nasal "honK" in the 2-3 KHz range. I listened first, then cut the tweeter lead. This leaves the woofers active; they still have some midrange rise compared to the 18 year old HKs. It's less "Hi Fi" and more forward sounding, but it beats the pucky out of rattling, blown drivers. A contemporary head unit can use the measurement microphone and DSP EQ to smooth the response.

I hope this discussion is helpful to the board!

[potxoli]

Hi, I just ordered a set of these based on your recommendation. Thanks for all the info. Question for you or for the collective wisdom of the car audio folks...

I have a early 97 2.8 (1/97 build date). No HK, no rear speakers or subs. Just kickpanel speakers and tweeters in the doors. The car came with a Sony MEX aftermarket head unit that is wired via a harness to the factory amp/crossovers using the speaker level outs. Reviews on the Sony are that it is a pretty decent head unit. I've also read the factory amp is junk and the current kickpanel speakers distort horribly at any reasonable volume.

I see two options easy options for me to install the new speakers without buying more equipment:

Option (A): Do what Tigerdog did. Replace kickpanel speakers with the DS18, cut the wire to the coaxial tweeter and leave wiring as is. Cons is that it still uses the factory amp, but tweeters stay in the door.

Option (B): Install the DS18 wired directly to the head unit amp bypassing factory amp and tweeter. Pros are likely better amp, but now the tweeters are firing from the kick panel and not the doors. Back when I was into car audio a long time ago, kick panel installs were preferred for imaging, but you always tried to angle the tweeters up towards the passengers.

Thoughts as to which would sound better? Thanks!

[tigerdog2000]

If you have no rear speakers or sub, you may not have a factory amp, either. Looking at RealOEM.com, it looks like the January 97 build had a choice of 3 systems. The "single component" system sounds like yours, with only front speakers. At least according to the diagram, you may already be powering straight from the head unit. Look in the back and under the seat; if you can't find the amp, you don't have one and your Sony is powering the speakers. I know this is how our '96 was run; replacing the head unit made a vast improvement in sound. If you have the single component system, replacing the woofers may well keep the door tweeters active. I say put 'em in, put the kick panels back in place, then listen. if it's too bright you can either disconnect the door tweeters or the ones on the DS18s.

One hint: when assessing, put the kick panels back in place. The dense foam on the back really works to extend the lows; more than you'd expect. You won't get a good sense for the system without it.

[potxoli]

Thank you! The VIN decoder for my car lists option "676" Hifi sound system which is the second system in the realoem link although I don't think I have the subwoofer in the rear pictured because the owner put the roll bars aftermarket and I believe that removed the sub box. Also on the door cards, it shows a tweeter plus midrange? Are they side by side to each other at the top of the door card? I can't imagine any substantial midrange fitting in the small opening I have.

[proxy2]

I also decided to go ahead and follow tigerdog's recommendation, and placed an order for the DS18.

I have the 1999 z3 2.8 built 01/99

I am also going to change the head unit to Pioneer MVH-290BT (found a youtube video with directions on how-to)

I believe I have the standard HIFI system, not HK

hope it will play nicely with existing tweeters, otherwise will have to figure out how to "cut the tweeter lead"

If after this sound is still not satisfactory, I'm thinking of putting R14X2 beside the seats

[z3forlife]

have you looked behind the passenger side trunk liner for a amp ? If you find one there then your results may not be as dramatic as you hope. I haven't seen every configuration but I thought all had a trunk mounted amp or two.

[proxy2]

These drivers are notably brighter than the stock HKs, especially with the coax tweeter. There's a nasal "honK" in the 2-3 KHz range. I listened first, then cut the tweeter lead. This leaves the woofers active; they still have some midrange rise compared to the 18 year old HKs. It's less "Hi Fi" and more forward sounding, but it beats the pucky out of rattling, blown drivers. A contemporary head unit can use the measurement microphone and DSP EQ to smooth the response.

I hope this discussion is helpful to the board!

How/where do you "cut the tweeter lead"?

[tigerdog2000]

How/where do you "cut the tweeter lead"?

Look at the bottom left of the group of photos I posted above. Note the fat red wire kind of floating above the + terminal, but connected to nothing. It comes together with a black one and runs under the paper band around the magnet structure. This leads up through the magnet and voice coil to the coaxial tweeter. When you receive your pair, you'll find this red wire is soldered to the terminal block where the wires connect. I snipped it right at the block, using some small wire clippers. This way, I can resolder it if I change my mind (not that I expect to...)

[proxy2]

Look at the bottom left of the group of photos I posted above. Note the fat red wire kind of floating above the + terminal, but connected to nothing. It comes together with a black one and runs under the paper band around the magnet structure. This leads up through the magnet and voice coil to the coaxial tweeter. When you receive your pair, you'll find this red wire is soldered to the terminal block where the wires connect. I snipped it right at the block, using some small wire clippers. This way, I can resolder it if I change my mind (not that I expect to...)

Thanks, i'm going to install the speakers tomorrow. I'm not an audiophile, so i'm not sure how I'll decide whether cutting tweeter lead will help or hurt. Also, I'm not sure if my existing tweeters in the doors are damaged or not.

yesterday I installed a new head unit - Pioneer MVH-290BT, next week I'm replacing the subwoofer with upward facing kicker and etsy enclosure

would you say it is a good idea to cut the red wire in either case?

[paul4223]

Inexpensive but more than adequate: Blaupunkt co-axials. The M Coupe cabin is not an especially suitable environment for "high-end" listening, especially with an aftermarket exhaust, even one as relatively tame as Stromung. YMMV.

[tigerdog2000]

would you say it is a good idea to cut the red wire in either case?

No!
This is a personal decision! You need to install them and listen as they come from the factory. Only you can decide whether they sound too bright, or if you like the extra upper midrange and treble sparkle. Listen first, then cut right at the solder joint. Then listen again. If you don't like it, you can solder it back.

[proxy2]

Installed, I listened, it seems ok to me (especially after years of listening to both blown speakers) ... so I decided to leave the red wire intact. On some songs I hear a slight distortion coming through the tweeter(s), maybe there is a blown twitter too, , ... but overall sound is good... I think I'll leave things at that.

The head unit manual says to use only 4-8ohm speakers, but DS18s are 3ohm. And the kicker subwoofer I'm installing tomorrow will be 2ohm, hopefully this will not a big problem.

[proxy2]

So, I'm changing my subwoofer. Got the new box for the kicker and I pulled out the OEM box. I don't see any visible damage to the speakers, it seems I might be able to get $100-150 on eBay for it

What I don't understand is how I will connect the wires though. Maybe someone can direct me to the answer? .... I can't find it anywhere.

There is a white connector I need to connect the speaker wires into, where can I buy the corresponding plug and directions on how to wire it ?

[proxy2]

just to help whomever might be doing this, I cut off the connector. Terminated the one set of wires (blue & brown) and used the other set (yellow & brown, ie yellow is red and brown is black) to connect to the subwoofer (connected in series, lookup the chart to see how to wire in series)

[tigerdog2000]

The head unit manual says to use only 4-8ohm speakers, but DS18s are 3ohm. And the kicker subwoofer I'm installing tomorrow will be 2ohm, hopefully this will not a big problem.

If the head unit is still feeding the stock amplifier(s), then the head unit will not see the speaker impedance. It talks to the amp(s), the amps talk to the speakers. Since the stock amps are designed for lower-impedance speakers, there's no cause for concern.

[tigerdog2000]

So, I'm changing my subwoofer...
What I don't understand is how I will connect the wires though. Maybe someone can direct me to the answer? .... I can't find it anywhere.

You can find the answer in the wiring diagrams for the car - search "z3 electrical troubleshooting manual" I'll save you the fun, though. The stock subwoofer has a dual voice coil driver, meaning it combines left and right channel bass in one unit. The brown wires are negative (-), yellow is left channel positive (+), blue is right channel positive (+). If your new woofer has only one set of inputs, you are only getting half the bass. That's not as bad as it sounds - in many recordings, low frequencies are mixed towards the center. You have a few options:

• Enjoy your new subwoofer and don't worry about it.
• return the new woofer and get one that has "DVC" or "dual voice coil" capability.
• bypass the stock amplifier and use a dedicated subwoofer amp that has two inputs and sums them into a single, subwoofer output.

I chose the last route.
Doug