Betty the Beater- Just a beginner drift thread

[Piner]

Any clue which video? I'm not seeing the video on SeanLoveRacing, at least.

I gotchu
https://youtu.be/Xr5wgJ5jKHA?t=7m58s

And for reference all Super and Ultra kits come pre-set to the minimal ackerman setting, its not quite zero but pretty close, also actual effective ackerman is dependent on how much caster you have dialed in at the control arm. The further forward your front balljoint moved the more positive ackerman you will gain. Ackerman is also affected by toe in and toe out as well. That why Chelsea always talks about his solution to fixing the way some other angle kits without adjustable ackerman is by changing the total toe for more toe out.

[awp235]

No. I'm using 1 notch away from stock. So like 1-4, 1 is as stock as it gets and 4 being "wtf is ackerman?" I'm using 2.

And can you explain how exactly it feels different while at high angle? I understand that it's only in certain instances, like turning from a stop and such, but I haven't seen any explanations of what it feels like. Does it want to push wide more? Does it feel like you're dragging a wheel more?

[protomor]

Ah man it's hard to explain. It's the same as any angle kit really. Once you get past what normal lock is, the car actually wants to track to full lock (not back to center). So you'll feel a definitive point where you go from fighting self centering to slowing the wheel down from trying to go to full lock. On top of that, you can definitely feel one tire not track the same and "skip" on the ground. It doesn't make a skirp like welded diffs do. But you can tell. Again, anything before factory lock feels fine and normal. It's just that when you get past that, you enter a weird feel zone.

[awp235]

Ah man it's hard to explain. It's the same as any angle kit really. Once you get past what normal lock is, the car actually wants to track to full lock (not back to center). So you'll feel a definitive point where you go from fighting self centering to slowing the wheel down from trying to go to full lock. On top of that, you can definitely feel one tire not track the same and "skip" on the ground. It doesn't make a skirp like welded diffs do. But you can tell. Again, anything before factory lock feels fine and normal. It's just that when you get past that, you enter a weird feel zone.

Weird, so self steer doesn't try to get it back to center? Huh! It'll take a little getting used to, I gather. Although I'm kind of hoping to not actually use a ton of the extra angle anyway. I don't have the power for it!

[Piner]

What you are describing is the road force essentially inverting. When you turn at big steering angle there is a kneeover point where the road force actually pushes the tire toward more angle and the steering gets light. This Happens then turning past about 50* at slow speeds like in a parking lot or a U turn. It is normal, it doesn't happen on normal street cars because none turn that far so it does feel weird. It isn't that the car doesn't have self steer since you will still have plenty when in drift and transitions. Its that when you turn the wheel really far in normal driving the forces on the tires invert and instead of trying to pull the wheel straight the road will try to force the wheels to turn more.

[awp235]

What you are describing is the road force essentially inverting. When you turn at big steering angle there is a kneeover point where the road force actually pushes the tire toward more angle and the steering gets light. This Happens then turning past about 50* at slow speeds like in a parking lot or a U turn. It is normal, it doesn't happen on normal street cars because none turn that far so it does feel weird. It isn't that the car doesn't have self steer since you will still have plenty when in drift and transitions. Its that when you turn the wheel really far in normal driving the forces on the tires invert and instead of trying to pull the wheel straight the road will try to force the wheels to turn more.

Awesome, great to know! Very interesting to me how steering geometry works.

Now, with the Poly FCAB with the kit, does the lip stick out of the bracket towards the front of the car or the rear? I assume the front, but you know what they say about assuming....

[awp235]

Well, I officially have an SLR kit on my car! Clearance issues are all over , I’m goin to have to see what I need to do about it in the morning/ during/ after alignment. Car is on the ground on 4 wheels, but I had to leave a piece of wood under the passenger front wheel to get my jack out from underneath. I guess I should try to figure out ride height before the alignment, because that probably just changes everything all over again. So I’ll try to set the ride height to “drivable” and I’ll probably be doing a light pull+ figuring out how to get my front wheel wells to stick way farther up in the front bumper.

I also realize that I honestly might just need to limit the travel on my rack... the tire hits the frame rail pretty badly. Right now my friend are 225/40 18’s on 8 I can wide style 162’s, with an effective ET of +2 I think. I could reduce the spacer from a 30mm down to a 20mm, but honestly I think I’m going to just make it work. I want all the steering travel the kit provides, because I bought the darn kit! So ‘I’m thinking about the prospect of quickly ordering some different tires but I don’t even know where to begin/ drop width and sidewall? Might have to get some reccomendation from the alignment guys. They deal with a lot of the club loose/ ready set drift guys.

[protomor]

First dial out camber. That'll help clearance. Also raising the car will help a ton. Then look into back spacing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[awp235]

First dial out camber. That'll help clearance. Also raising the car will help a ton. Then look into back spacing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

So I got an alignment, but as soon as I had adjusted the tie rods well(ish) I had less clearance issues. Basically, car is aligned (shoutouts to BC Tire in Pascataway NJ!), and I'm at 4* of camber, 6* of caster, .1* toe out on each side. I've got some rubbing issues, but nothing to serious, I need like a 1/2 inch more clearance on the drivers side front wheel well, which I'll be able to figure something out with. I think it might be hitting the frame a tiny bit, which looks so insignificant that I'm sure with /35 tires, it'd be fine. Next set will be that, and I just will try not to slam full lock all the time.

First impressions, since I just drove it home 35 miles-Feels pretty much stock. The second most noticeable difference is the weight of the steering, it's more akin to my sport package e90 steering feel now. Turn in is great, and the effectively faster rack is great. The most noticeable difference is the lack of front sway bar, which I'll definitely be looking into. Piner says the whiteline fits, but didn't Nova recently mentioned that he had to drill new holes to get it to fit? Not sure what I'll do about it. I'm getting some pinging through the front end, so I'll definitely retorque everything when I go to roll the fenders.
The steering angle is ridiculous. You can have the front bumper in line with the second line of a parking spot, crank it, and get into it. It's stupid angle, and makes me laugh anytime I feel it. Usually a K turn in my driveway is a shuffling 5-6 point turn, and now I can 3 point it no issue. Life is great!

[protomor]

I'll let you figure out the sway bar then follow lol.

only 4 degrees of camber? I got mine down to 2.5. Maybe the BC and fortune auto camber plates are different? I have the factory slotted holes maxed positive and the shock nut is slammed in the inner circle of the strut tower. I was figuring on just cutting out and welding in a small section on the front frame since it isn't really THAT structural. That or some spacers. But I want to calculate scrub. IIRC half inch on either side is the limit of scrub before it becomes an issue.

[awp235]

I'll let you figure out the sway bar then follow lol.

only 4 degrees of camber? I got mine down to 2.5. Maybe the BC and fortune auto camber plates are different? I have the factory slotted holes maxed positive and the shock nut is slammed in the inner circle of the strut tower. I was figuring on just cutting out and welding in a small section on the front frame since it isn't really THAT structural. That or some spacers. But I want to calculate scrub. IIRC half inch on either side is the limit of scrub before it becomes an issue.

To be completely honest, we could’ve gotten it down to around 3. I forgot my coil adjustment wrenches and the shop didn’t have any, and I was really nervous about my fenders on the way home. I raised the car, but not much. I’ll post up pics sometime soon. What is this scrub you speak of?

As far as the sway bar goes, I’m not sure what I’m going to be doing... like at all. I know I want one on the car, and in theory it’s truly just a bar that’s bent up in a way to connect to the 2 arms, and the body. It works via torsion, so like maybe it calls for a custom bar? I’m going to have to look into it, and see if anyone else had any experience in the matter. I hate being the first! Ends up taking longer, being expensive, and being a pain in the butt.

At least my day ended up being super productive- after I got home from the alignment, I basked in the glory for a bit, then the mail man came and dropped off my new wheel cleaning supplies.. so I cleaned the drift car’s fronts... and that became the nice car’s 4... and that became washing the street car. Then while I was focused on the street car I decided to finally replace the precat 02, which isn’t super simple on the n54!
At least stuff got done.

[protomor]

Scrub is scrub radius. It's the center of where the wheel pivots when you turn the steering wheel. If you space out your wheel like 5 inches, the wheel will turn really funny. So you want the center of the tire within half an inch of the center of rotation. I'm bad at explaining it via text. Just google scrub radius.

And yea, I was thinking of a blade style sway bar. You really want it parallel with the control arms though, that's why the factory one is curved the way it is.

[awp235]

Scrub is scrub radius. It's the center of where the wheel pivots when you turn the steering wheel. If you space out your wheel like 5 inches, the wheel will turn really funny. So you want the center of the tire within half an inch of the center of rotation. I'm bad at explaining it via text. Just google scrub radius.

And yea, I was thinking of a blade style sway bar. You really want it parallel with the control arms though, that's why the factory one is curved the way it is.

Do you have any idea about manufacturers for that?

As for the scrub, I can probably figure it out. My spacer probably messed it up, since its over an inch of spacing. I'm not sure how I would clear stuff without that on though. I will eventually dial out some camber, I might have a chance to roll the fenders today but being as it's aligned right now, I might wait on touching the specs. Going to roll the fenders to get the clearance I need for this weekend, and retorque everything down.

[protomor]

Manufacturers of blade style sway bars? No idea. I figure off road places or something. I haven't looked into it too hard. It's just that low on my priority list.

[e30 394]

Circle track cars run those style bars i think, I'm betting summit or jegs would carry them.

[protomor]

Yea something like this: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...0001/overview/

[Novablue454]

I'll let you figure out the sway bar then follow lol.

only 4 degrees of camber? I got mine down to 2.5. Maybe the BC and fortune auto camber plates are different? I have the factory slotted holes maxed positive and the shock nut is slammed in the inner circle of the strut tower. I was figuring on just cutting out and welding in a small section on the front frame since it isn't really THAT structural. That or some spacers. But I want to calculate scrub. IIRC half inch on either side is the limit of scrub before it becomes an issue.

Didn't you use the SLR fancy camber thingys? My car maxes out at -4.7 with BCs and Fortunes

[protomor]

I HAVE them camber thingies. But I got to 2.5 without them on the super kit.

[awp235]

Based on the marks on my tire when I crank is over while sitting still, the center of my tire is 1.75-2" outside of the actual point of rotation. but with the camber, not all of the tire is technically the contact patch, and I didn't really feel like doing any fancy calculations.

I can probably get it down a hair lower than 3, my car seems to max out at 5 exactly with the factory BC camber plates on the coils.

So yesterday I went and raised my car up, accidentally setting the preload to adjust height instead of the shock body. I'm an idiot and was confused as to why it was so difficult this time around... It's been a long few days. Today I'll lower it back down like an inch and a half and then do all that adjustment with the shock body, like I shouldve in the first place. Stinkin car is a monster truck like this though, and I'm looking forward to rolling it this evening or tomorrow evening.

[awp235]

Well, I got everything clearance on my Friday off, and then wen out for Ready Set Drift's July Cookout. Saturday south course, sunday skidpad. both days were just absolutely crazy fun with my car now. They were crazy fun before, but now I'm not outdriving my angle while manjiing or holding sweepers. Burned lots of rubber, and really started getting some real smoking going on sunday. The Skidpad's surface is much more grippy than the road course's, which was really fun to play with. I dialed in some more grip with rear air pressure adjsutments too.

The bottom line is, I'm glad I drifted for a year without any angle at all. REALLY glad. I learned so much more about how to actually control my car. Now that I have angle, AND know how to handle my car... Holy crap, drifting is like a video game now. Just hilariously fun, and it's so effortless to get the car to do exactly what I want it to. I need to dial out some rear camber, to try to get a bit more grip, and better tire wear- I want to set it to about -1 degree. Self steer felt great, and it was pretty rare that I snapped the car over so hard that I couldn't catch it. It's definitely so nice to be able to manji super aggressively to extend a drift out on the straights.

Chrisfix was at this event all weekend, and I spent much of my sunday shooting the shit with him. Super cool guy, and his girlfriend was super nice and shot more than a few of my runs as media, so I should be getting some videos from outside my car for the first time ever. The compliments started rolling in from some of the long time A class guys who are absolutely known to rip on their cars super hard, and it felt great knowing that the great drifters there were actually starting to notice and tell me I was ripping out there.
Hopefully I'll get some of the videos to show you guys- I have some inside clips of runs, but my car is still all packed and I'm not sure what day I'll finally have a chance to unload it and snag the gopro to offload videos.

I've got a intermediate clinic this coming sunday, which I need to mount up some tires for, but I'm looking forward to getting some instruction at a slightly higher level. Can't wait to be out in this car again. A year and a half ago, I had only dreamed of being a drifter. A year ago, I only dreamed of ever being comfortable enough to go out and rip on a well built car... and here I am today with the drfit car that I've put so much blood and sweat into with my own two hands, and I can't help but to smile and be proud. This is what it's all about!

[awp235]

So, I'm starting to get pretty worried about this metallic clanking sound coming from my rear over bumps. It happens often enough that I just think something has to be wrong. I can try to get a video, but what kind of things could be clanking? The noise happens most often when the rear passenger side goes over bumps. I guess its possible that the shock blew out, but I don't think BC's are known to do that. It sounds like metal smacking together. If I chop the throttle on and off it happens too. I know I need to replace my rear diff bushings, as they are original OEM, but the bumps that make it happen are truly only hitting the rear passenger side, so I don't think it would be the diff bushings. Other things that I haven't touched are the Lower control arms, and the upper ball joint in the rear. Is there any route that I should go first?

I can't seem to replicate this sound with the rear off the ground, or with the car sitting still. Only while driving, which doesn't help me p pinpoint it.

There's a chance the shitty welder who did my subframe reinforcement did a shitty job and that's making the noise I guess. Not sure how I would figure that out either though. I guess by dropping the subframe, and then looking to see any wear marks around any of the plates/ broken welds? I'm terrified that I'm hearing my subframe mounts tear apart.

[protomor]

Things off the top of my head would be that the shock preload isn't set properly so the spring is banging around. Or the shock mount, either the shock to the mount or the mount to the chassis.

[mcfilmwerks]

^^^ I would try this first. In my old mustang if I hit a big enough bump the spring would pop out of the perch then bang back in and make a bad noise. Only had lowering springs in that thing, but later found out that the spring cracked

[awp235]

Things off the top of my head would be that the shock preload isn't set properly so the spring is banging around. Or the shock mount, either the shock to the mount or the mount to the chassis.

Easy to check. I'll definitely take a look at it this evening when I get home.
This is a video of the sound... Sound quality is abysmal, but you kind of get the idea of what is sounds like. a quick scan showed the sound at :07, :30, and :36

I've checked the top of the shock's mounting to the chassis numerous times, it's all tightened down, and doesn't budge.

[awp235]

Things off the top of my head would be that the shock preload isn't set properly so the spring is banging around. Or the shock mount, either the shock to the mount or the mount to the chassis.

The spring is pretty damn tight in there. I could reduce how long the strut is, via the body adjustment on the strut. I’ll gibe it a few spins, since the wheel is off anyway, maybe do 3 or 4 turns and see if it makes any difference.