Key replacement...

**sleuth255** · 05-01-2017, 11:21 PM

So when my indie did my thrust arms he called and said that they had accidentally snapped off the key which they normally leave in the driver's side door while working on the vehicle. I showed up with the spare and he said he had ordered a replacement from the dealer that would show up in a few days and that he would eat the $300 charge. That was last Thursday and I'm now wondering if I'm being zoomed. Can he even order a replacement key for my car? I did some searching and it looks like you have to show up with the car's registration and a drivers license showing proof of ownership before they will take down your VIN and get the replacement. Does a certified BMW mechanic get a pass on this? If so, what's a reasonable time from order to replacement arrives? He said it would be in today, but it looks like my car had 10 keys made when it was built and the 8 spares are kept by BMW; so this thing would have to come from Germany.... Has anybody here ordered a replacement from their local stealer? How long did it take?

**Tyrone30** · 05-02-2017, 02:25 AM

I recently had to order a replacement key from BMW. You must show registration and ID for proof of ownership. I did receive the key overnight.

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**JET79** · 05-02-2017, 06:05 AM

I ordered one from the stealer for 150.00 and had it the next day. They also made a copy of my license and registration before they placed the order. Not sure if your Indy might have a contact that would let him order the the key without it.

**sleuth255** · 05-02-2017, 08:50 AM

Did your key look like this one or was it the older style?

**geargrinder** · 05-02-2017, 09:40 AM

I have no doubt a reputable Indy might get the pass from the dealer, I bet he had to fax over the registration but they let him get away w that.

It's not that they make 10 keys for each individual car, its that there's only so many keys (i.e. your key DOES fit some other cars out there in the world), so they can keep a pile of keys in the BMW USA key vault and hand them out.

The 10 key thing might be a mixunderstanding from the 'slots' in the EWS. You can only register so many to the EWS before you need a new or virginized EWS.

FWIW he's gonna have to pair that new key w/ your EWS using a programming tool, as well as pair the remote to the doors.

Those are 2 completely independent operations/systems.

You might want to keep that busted key, at least you could use the remote part for it. In fact if you are resourceful and feel like a project, you could order a key blank from ebay, have it cut by a locksmith, then transplant to make a working key. Either transplant the guts of your key into an eBay 'dummy', or, put the new blade into your old key shell. Opening the diamond keys is a PITA apparently (not done it myself) but doable with care.

This sort of thing, although make sure its the right key shape for your key...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Remote-Blank...tXF5PV&vxp=mtr

**sleuth255** · 05-02-2017, 10:19 AM

Yeah, that's what it looked like to me as well: its really about the 10 EWS slots. I was thinking about the busted key as well but not sure how I would charge it. Your transplant suggestion sounds like a good winter project too.... I'm up for giving that a shot once I get the replacement from my indie. I checked with the local BMW dealer here and they quoted me $188 and 2-3 business days. They also said that they would need a copy of my DL and registration or title to get things rolling. I also called my indie and he said the replacement should show up either today or tomorrow. Let's hope so.... I've got a clutch job coming up one of these days in the not too distant future (original clutch still in with 162K on it).

**Qsilver7** · 05-02-2017, 12:10 PM

Just FYI about EWS & key intialization that occurs at the factory. As mentioned above...the 10 keys programmed into the EWS control module gets misconstrued in its explanation to the masses. The "10 key" stuff...is actually "data" that is stored. There aren't 10 keys physically cut for the vehicle (when programmed on the assembly line)...besides...how would BMW know which key an owner wants (if they were all pre-cut)? There are multiple keys: remote, illuminated, valet w/gray head & metal blade, and wallet w/plastic head & blade.

The EWS ISN data is stored and used to make new keys and the cut of your key blade is also stored...and is retrieved by using the vehicles VIN. This is also why future owners are SCREWED when a previous owner harvests lock cylinders, and ECUs etc from donor BMWs and don't document & share all this info with new buyers. The new owners get screwed when they need new keys and have no idea or clue as to the correct VIN for the part that was replaced.

**JPR10** · 05-02-2017, 01:59 PM

Sorry to thread jack, but this might be better than me creating a new one.

I've found a local locksmith who can cut/program (using laptop + ak90) keys bought on fleabay/aftermarket. He is charging $120 for this service (cheaper than my local dealer charging $250 for a key from BMW).

There are several versions of the key online 315mhz vs 433mhz. Does anybody know which frequency our cars use?

Also, will any key using the same blade type work? (HU58) -- for example, if I bought a flip key case, with an HU58 blade and a 315mz transponder codeable to our EWS, would this work?

**justinca540i** · 05-02-2017, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by JPR10

Sorry to thread jack, but this might be better than me creating a new one.

I've found a local locksmith who can cut/program (using laptop + ak90) keys bought on fleabay/aftermarket. He is charging $120 for this service (cheaper than my local dealer charging $250 for a key from BMW).

There are several versions of the key online 315mhz vs 433mhz. Does anybody know which frequency our cars use?

Also, will any key using the same blade type work? (HU58) -- for example, if I bought a flip key case, with an HU58 blade and a 315mz transponder codeable to our EWS, would this work?

Looks like North American E39s use 315mhz.

**JPR10** · 05-02-2017, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by justinca540i

Looks like North American E39s use 315mhz.

Ah good to know... Here are the keys I'm considering (which are E60 style keys)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Folding-Flip...ZWcD08&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Folding-Flip...JYDa~v&vxp=mtr

Would either of these work for our application?

**sleuth255** · 05-04-2017, 01:01 PM

My indie called and said he had the new key today so I dropped by and initialized it without issues. I'm still going to try and fix the old one though so I also ordered a blank from Amazon. Now to cut open my broken one so I can harvest the electronics. I also need to find somebody in the Milwaukee WI area who can cut an HU58 blank...

**RyansBMW** · 05-04-2017, 03:59 PM

Just an FYI, cutting open the key is pretty simple. I did it a month ago or so to replace my battery. Use a box cutter or sharp craft knife and just go slow. Start on the end where the key chain ring goes thru just to get an idea of how deep you need to press to get thru the seal. Its not much and shouldnt take you more than 10 min if you are going slow.

**sleuth255** · 05-05-2017, 09:45 AM

Thanks for the info. My plan is to lock what's left of the blade into a vice so I can cut the case open without trashing my hand. Some of the you-tube's I've watched are downright scary....

**sleuth255** · 05-20-2017, 01:36 PM

So my new key from China cost $7.99 on Amazon (link) and arrived last Tuesday. It was a bit more expensive than some keys on eBay, but also came with a little stick on BMW roundel. Today I had it cut at our local Tru-Value hardware store for $32. Here's the replacement which works like a charm!

Couple of things I learned:

The "clamp it in a vice" procedure to open the original key works great! It took no time at all to open the case and retrieve the transponder board.

The key initialization procedure works great as well, but there's a caveat: You need to re-initialize all of your remote capable keys, one after the other or their remote control functions won't work. In other words, if you only do one, that's the only one that will work afterward. So, in my case I put an original key in the ignition lock, turned to position 1 then back off again. Then for each of my 3 keys I did the button press sequence (press and hold unlock, then press and release lock 3 times waiting 2 seconds between presses, then release unlock. Locks cycle to show it was accepted).

**geargrinder** · 05-20-2017, 02:26 PM

nice.

**88M6** · 01-20-2018, 07:53 PM

My recent 02 540 purchase had no master key so just paid the stealer 260.00 for the key.
when I showed with necessary paperwork parts counter tells me an additional 199.00 would be required if I wanted key coded!
i just blew that off as I had recently bought a master key for my wife's 540(dead battery) n service advisor just got in the car n did the sequence n all was good.

service advisor ,upon pleading that last one I ordered for my wife's 540 didn't need to be coded,got in my newest car n tried several times to do sequencing and it would not take! Off to service bay and now another 199.00 poorer.
so al in all cost me 459.00 OUCH.
As a DYI person that hurt.

**Qsilver7** · 01-20-2018, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by 88M6

My recent 02 540 purchase had no master key so just paid the stealer 260.00 for the key.
when I showed with necessary paperwork parts counter tells me an additional 199.00 would be required if I wanted key coded!
i just blew that off as I had recently bought a master key for my wife's 540(dead battery) n service advisor just got in the car n did the sequence n all was good.

service advisor ,upon pleading that last one I ordered for my wife's 540 didn't need to be coded,got in my newest car n tried several times to do sequencing and it would not take! Off to service bay and now another 199.00 poorer.
so al in all cost me 459.00 OUCH.
As a DYI person that hurt.

Coded? Coded for what? EWS or FZV/DWA? WOW...if I had to pay $199 to do the simple procedure to initialize the remote key for FZV/DWA (see instructions & tips below) in addition to the cost of the remote key...I'd be P I S S E D! (these instructions get posted multiple times a month across multiple BMW forums so a simple google search should find these instructions)?

If the dealership tricked you into intiialinzing EWS...you still got robbed because they're either too stupid to realize that you have an old generation BMW...or intentionally extorted you for a procedure that was totally unnecessary . You don't have CAS like the new generation BMWs that have the new style comfort access remote keys. Your new remote key already came with the tranponder chip that has the ISN (individual serial number) that was assigned to your EWS control module when it rolled off the assembly line. (See info in post #7 above)

There are a few tips given in the instructions that some people overlook...if some of the things mentioned like open doors and locked doors weren't heeded...then the remote key will not program to the GM to receive the new rolling code table and key assignment to lock/unlock and arm/disarm the vehicle:

KL R = ignition position 1 (KL 15 = ignition position 2)
All doors MUST be CLOSED
All doors MUST be UNLOCKED
All remote keys must be done in the same programming session
Only the 1st key needs to be inserted into the ignition

**sleuth255** · 01-20-2018, 11:27 PM

So the battery died while trying to start the car a few weeks ago, and now the key I was using won't engage the starter. Best theory I have is that power to the EWS/Key failed while the rolling code was being updated and the key is now out of sync with the EWS. I ordered an AK90 and am hoping I can re-initialize the slot for the key that's not working.

**Qsilver7** · 01-21-2018, 12:06 AM

When EWS gets "out of sync"...its not an AK90 that's required to fix the issue. All you needed was software (BMW or aftermarket) that can communicate with the car's bus system (ews control module) to simply resync (or "realign") the DME & EWS control module.

See 2nd paragraph in info below:

See the 3rd bullet in info below. (ISN = individual serial number)

**geargrinder** · 01-21-2018, 09:55 AM

Agreed. The AK90 is only need to program a new key and/or key slot. A dead battery shouldn't corrupt a key slot, nor a key transponder chip... if it would then many people would be screwed constantly as batteries go dead. The idea that the key got corrupted because the final code-write to the key transponder chip got interrupted is I suppose theoretically possible, but would be extremely rare. The EWS itself for sure has failsafe/rollback type writes because its clear noone ever seems to have that happen.

Sleuth are you saying the car starts fine with other keys but won't work with this one now? Have you checked in DIS or INPA to see if it's recognizing the transponder in the key and which key slot it is?

Now I don't have an AK90 myself (surprisingly actually) but my understanding is that the EML chips are one-write only? There's mixed info out there - a few claims they were able to write used keys, but most sources seem to say they are one-write. If that's the case you won't be able to do much w/ the AK90 to that key. I think djb2 recently was talking about his experience w/ the various transponder chip types and what can/can't be done... If the EML chip in your key is truly one-write then the AK90 isn't going to help once the keys been written...

**sleuth255** · 01-21-2018, 10:05 AM

The DME and EWS are not out of sync. My other keys work just fine. Good idea to check with INPA. I'll do that today. My understanding of the fix is that AK90 is used to reset the rolling code on the EWS to the initial state for the affected key.

**geargrinder** · 01-21-2018, 10:18 AM

Yeah. Basically the key has 2 codes. The permanent 'password' which never changes, then the changing code (they don't call this a 'rolling code' because the key isn't smart enough to have a table of codes that it 'rolls' through...) that gets fed-back, then written. If the AK90 can reset that changing code for the key/EWS, then might work. I can see how that would work - read whatever the key holds now, overwrite the keys old slot/data, then write to the EWS again. That presumes the key data isn't actually "corrupted", but just didn't get written over with the last code it was supposed to get. Let us know how it works out!

**sleuth255** · 01-21-2018, 12:37 PM

I hooked up INPA and there was an EWS parity error code stored. Cleared codes and retried the key that didn't work. It still doesn't work of course but no codes were subsequently stored. The original error may have been from the day my battery died.

**Fx323i** · 01-22-2018, 04:08 PM

Guys, for the starter blocked by EWS he would need AK90 to pull the EWS data and reset the rolling codes, then write data back. This works if the rolling code in key is out of sync with EWS due to a flat battery when starting.

EWS-DME sync is for situation when it cranks, but does not fire.

**geargrinder** · 01-22-2018, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Fx323i

Guys, for the starter blocked by EWS he would need AK90 to pull the EWS data and reset the rolling codes, then write data back. This works if the rolling code in key is out of sync with EWS due to a flat battery when starting.

EWS-DME sync is for situation when it cranks, but does not fire.

Yes we know that.

I would say its a jump to conclusion to say the AK90 rewrite will for sure fix it (maybe the key is unrecoverable or there's another problem) but do I know you know about these things and if you say the AK90 can reset a used key (and to be pedantic again it's a changing code not a rolling code) then that's good info and bodes well for maybe him having luck.