Lube thoughts for sunroof schtuff?

[geargrinder]

In the midst of sunroof "fun"... what a rube goldberg these things are... amazing how much is in there with all the multiple sliders and tracks and deflectors and bellows and interdependent levers...

Question: Anybody got any good alternate thoughts on lube for the tracks/parts? My parts were all nasty and globbed up and sticky and horrible w/ old goo. No wonder all the myriad parts had gotten sluggish over the years...

The old standard for stuff like that was white lithium, but honestly I've found white lithium to get dry and sticky and crusty and terrible these days, basically I increasingly find it completely useless.

In fact I almost wonder if modern white lithium lubes are a different formulation, since i used to use that stuff all the time BITD and it seemed to act differently... Doesn't seem to work well in applications like sunroofs or seat tracks where I used to use it all the time as a "non-dripping lube", now it just seems to dry up to a hard cakey dry sludge crap in no time, at best being completely non lubricating, at worse making things sticky and jammed up. I expect they took all the delicious carcinogens out of it that made it work BITD...

So... I'm thinking about using either a proper quality grease like a red EP or teflon, but carefully applied in thin layer w/ q-tip, or, maybe a thick oil, like Fluid Film, or maybe some bike chain lube I have that's nice and sticky and can handle a little water splashing on it...

Thoughts?

[Ed CT]

I seem to recall that Mike Miller recommends Wurth True Glide. Don't know what's in it, but I'm thinking that it's not a dino-derivative so that it won't eat away at the plastic parts in the mechanism. My Teflon bike lube sets up dry, so, I will prolly use that when the time comes.

[geargrinder]

Thanks Ed.

Hmmm... Wurth seems to be a lithium. But it is in a tube... maybe thats the key, maybe is the aerosol ones that are teh sux? I'm still leaning teflon or other grease, but will do some more searchin...

[cnsorial]

When I got my 540 I lubed it up with white lithium and it is just ok. After only 1 year it is pretty hard and cakey. I used the stuff in the tube. I also did the rear sunshade track with it (I'm an idiot, wasn't thinking) and while it made it nice and smooth, it now looks like absolute crap and it's all hardened and I can't seem to get it all out of there no matter how many q tips I use.


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[juststeve]

purchased a life time supply of dry graphite from the farm store.
a typical lubricant used in seeders

they sell it in qt. bottles for about $5

[edjack]

Tri-flow, anyone?

[whiteghost1]

Good timing for this thread. In my neck of the woods the sun has poked it's head out for the first time in 6 months, time to absorb some vitamin D. As such the sunroof is finally back in service. I noticed that the SR motor sounds laboured so it's time to lube up the system.

Ive used a dry graphite to lubricate the sunroof on my e46 which seemed to work fairly well, didn't seem to wash off or become crusty.
Ill take a look tomorrow what product it is when I get into work.

While we are on the subject, other than the obviously visible wear marks on the SR tracks, where else do you lube up?

[philly98540]

This stuff is invaluable to have and will likely fit the bill for the sunroof bits. It's clear and waterproof, never dries out. Stays put etc etc. Get some.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002W...-PL&ref=plSrch

[Quantico]

Yes! Tri-Flow.

I cleaned all the caked up white lithium and used on my sunroof. It's worked well over time. May have to reapply yearly, versus white lithium which hangs around longer. I know many swear by Tri-Flow.

[geargrinder]

This stuff is invaluable to have and will likely fit the bill for the sunroof bits. It's clear and waterproof, never dries out. Stays put etc etc. Get some.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002W...-PL&ref=plSrch

Interdasting. I only have 37 different sealers and lubricants on my sealer and lubricant shelf, this will be a good addition to round out the selection! Good for food contact... hmmm... Wish I had it when I was overhauling my asspresso machine w/ new o-rings and solenoid valves!

[gmak]

I would suggest teflon spray that dries - similar to what is used on bicycles - followed by the graphite spray that dries. But for the latter - be very very careful to cover up everything you don't want sprayed because it is black and will not be removed.

Update:
What I meant is to use one or the other - not both at the same time.

[crazy4trains]

I would just use my CRC Silaramic brake system grease. If it is OK to use on brake components, including rubber bits and pieces then should be just fine for the plaskit sunroof parts.

[geargrinder]

While we are on the subject, other than the obviously visible wear marks on the SR tracks, where else do you lube up?

Man its hard to describe how much 'stuff' there is in these things until you just pull the glass and take it all in.

The cables run in the trays of course and you can't get to those really very much at all, but honestly they don't seem to be the biggest issue.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=54_0195

This is all just speaking for what mine is like at this age - 2002, never been serviced I don't think, but has had a spritz of lube over years including some white lithium. Here's what I am seeing... from the inside of the 'hole', working out... and I'm using some invented terms here because its one of those things where the BMW terms are somewhat useless to really get the parts identified.

• The sunshade slides in a track. Mine was pretty sticky before disassembly but not so bad now with everything out, I think that's because it inter-slides with the bellows guide/support (this is what makes the sunshade auto-open when you crack the roof), and the bellows 'sliders' were sticky/gummy. So there's this track you can try to get some lube on, but I'd be very careful as I suspect overspray can get down around the sunshade as reported and be visible and yucky. Seems to me the shade might be best left as dry and clean as you can get it. Would be a good candidate for a very dry lube, although that graphite spray crap is massively staining and hideous so unless you have a black headliner I'd stay away from that.
• The bellows ("boot" in realoem) support rail (#14) slides on its own track, as well as "inter-sliding" w/ the shade (or the 'shade slides on it' might be a way to say it). That support rail was def gummed up with dried up lube (TWSS) and crap and making everything sticky. The forward bellows rail 'guide' also acts as a forward stop I think, and those were way gummed up and slightly damaged. I decided to remove them completely for cleaning purposes and am glad I did as trying to just "spray and pray" wouldn't get all the sticky crappy old lube out of all the parts in there... With the roof slid back you can probably spray some lube into this track - look for the block at the front end of the bellows rail below the glass and see where its sliding. It partially rests on the flat surface of the rail AFAICT so some lube on the flat surface may be advisable.
• Then next step inward, then we are into the main track which the glass supports slide in. In that track, there's 1. the complicated articulated rear support which does the fancy shmancy tilt-up-and-drop-down trickery, and it itself has 2 parts - both a main slider at the rear, and a forward slider (which is the only part that breaks for most people actually...) connected by a rail - and then 2. the forward glass hinge/slider part. This definitely gets all gummed up with old grease which packs up with worn aluminum and plastic dust from wear. With the roof slid back you can definitely get to the main open track itself, however the key bits are the side... the sliders slide on the sides not the middle part, and the middle is fairly open to let dirt and rain etc. wash through I suspect. So you want to get up in the grooves of the sides of this track primarily. Ideally you would slide the roof fully forward and try to lube the same track behind the rear slider so some lube gets worked back there. Might be real tough w/ the glass in.
• Then there's the "water channel" mechanism aka the rear rain/wind deflector, which pops up in the back when the roof is up and forward, but then drops down and slides back to hide away when the roof is fully open. This sub-assembly has both a slider, then its own articulated arm, and, a snap clip where it clips into the rear slider/arm mechanism for the glass. COMPLICATED. This one is real hard to get a handle on with the glass in, but ideally you'd get some lube on its slider. The articulated arm on each side has a pin that slides through a fixed plastic block with a track to make it go up/down as it goes fore/aft, that doesn't look like it takes any lube from the factory... its the kind of part where you're trading off lube for dirt-attraction, and dry might be better? Another note on this part, the part that clips onto the forward roof mechanism can snap out... I had it snapped out on one side on mine, and I think that was causing some of the weird noises and binding I was having. As hard as it is to access w/ the glass in, you might be able to snap it back on in place, if you know exactly whats going in there, the trick woudl probably be to do it in forward tilt mode as otherwise that rain/wind deflector is pushed back into the roof where you can't even see it.
• Oh yeah, and also the front wind deflector has these pivot pins on the ends of the arms that go backward, anchor to the floor of the cassette, and activate the retraction. They are held in by little clip-pivots riveted to the floor of the sunroof tray. A drop of oil on each of those is probably a good idea. As well you could put the tiniest smear of lube on the pin that pushes the front wind deflector down to help it slide smoothly.

Bottom line is its a big PITA to get to all this stuff w/ the glass in. While most people can prob get away w/ some fresh lube on the key spots from above once a year, if ones roof is really sticky and acting up you might consider pulling the glass out so you can inspect everything and give it a proper cleaning. Again mine was completely gunked and gummed up with old lubes and absorbed dirt. I scrubbed all the rails and parts in mine w degreaser, then mild soapy water, then rinsed down last night, so hopefully is all dry and ready for fresh lube up at this point.

Last note: Parts are now asspensive as shi7. BMW is totally forking us in the donkey. And I don't mean forking. And I don't mean donkey.

For the main "99% chance this is what is wrong" rear slider repair kit parts (#13), old threads happily report as being "$30 or so each" (totally reasonable). Now $100 or so at best if you shop around.
That said, it seems normally (lets unscientifically say "75-80% of the time") just the wee forward plastic bit that breaks, and as also recounted in many old threads, that little plastic part - which isn't available from BMW separately - can be bought from various fleaBay sellers for $6-10 each.

A single bellows ("boot") support rail (again #14) - how you get a new bellows too - which realOEM shows as $40, and old threads report as being even cheaper BITD, is an insane $250. Somebody at BMW parts pricing was smoking some serious crack that day. If my bellows really had a long tear in the back (what happends generally) then I'd strongly consider just cutting it back carefully so it wasn't flopping around, and going without. I did see some overseas aftermarket parts for this looking around last night, but from some sketchy looking sellers so who knows what the quality is like.

If this stuff was at the old prices, I'd be half inclined to drop the $120 and go for new bellows/rail and new rear slider kit for both sides and be done with it. But no way anybody is paying $700 for that.

[JaimeZX]

On my sailboat I use silicone spray. Doesn't attract dirt like WD-40 and remains all kinds of slippery for long periods of time. Hadn't thought of lubing the moonroof but now I am...

[Qsilver7]

Tri-flow, anyone?

Yes! Tri-Flow.

I cleaned all the caked up white lithium and used on my sunroof. It's worked well over time. May have to reapply yearly, versus white lithium which hangs around longer. I know many swear by Tri-Flow.

...I'm in the TRI-FLOW camp, too!

I spray some lubricant into the cap to give myself some fluid to "paint" with. I use a small brush to apply the Tri-flow lubricant which contains TEFLON (PTFB) that remains behind...which helps all the moving parts glide against each other:

[philly98540]

I've yet to lube or even touch any part of my sunroof mechanism in 16 years. Still works perfect. Im betting it will break next time I use it. You guys lube these often?

[geargrinder]

I used to give a squirt to my cars in spring if I remembered, I don't remember that often. I think the last time I used white lithium a few years back and prob made mine worse. Did the "feels better right away but long-term got slower and stickier and funkier" thing. Big mistake I think.

Sounds like we got mostly 3 camps (mirrors what my searches have found):
- tri-flow (which in fact doesn't evap completely dry, more like 'fairly dry'). I think some of the 'semi-dry' bike chain lubes would also fall into this category
- 'dry' silicone spray
- light teflon / synthetic greases - all these look like dielectric grease or superlube type of clear synth grease, and more searching also turned up that BMW in fact sells a 'sunroof lube' like this

- - - Updated - - -

BTW - I'm a retahded. just discovered I left the ignition on last night after the disassembly and had forgotten to hook up the battery charger in supply mode like I had intended. Great. Nothing like killing a brand new battery.

[philly98540]

That blows. Maybe you can save it?

[geargrinder]

I'm pretty sure it'll charge up, just probably took a year off its life though, like a moron.

[WBAD530i]

I used the CRC aerosol white lithium on my sunroof, and yes just like you said GG - It was great for one day, made a nasty overspray mess that was similar to one of those bukkake videos. Now after about 6 months it's as if no one ever cleaned up the room used for said bukkake and everything is now crustaciously disgusting and not lubricational at all.

I hope I painted the picture for you. Modern white lithium is pretty much just harvested from the testicles of large animals and sold for a juicy sticky profit.

[geargrinder]

Lol!!!!

[300kplus]

I used the CRC aerosol white lithium on my sunroof, and yes just like you said GG - It was great for one day, made a nasty overspray mess that was similar to one of those bukkake videos. Now after about 6 months it's as if no one ever cleaned up the room used for said bukkake and everything is now crustaciously disgusting and not lubricational at all.

I hope I painted the picture for you. Modern white lithium is pretty much just harvested from the testicles of large animals and sold for a juicy sticky profit.

Rolling!!!

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[whiteghost1]

GG excellent post(s) as usual along with QS7 as well, very informative. We're lucky as a group that we have you guys as I'm sure you've both helped more than your fair share of owners on the board!

[geargrinder]

OK - revisiting this threat - after having my glass in/out about 5-6 times and my old cassette out/in once already, AND, having pulled a new junkyard cassette with very low usage on it, and looking very apparently 'never been lubed or messed with' condition...

My opinion at this point is for sure to use the lightest lube possible. WD40 / TriFlow / Silicone spray, that sort of thing (WD will wash out quickly but that seems preferable to gumming up...)

Mine had obviously had some grease in it before... both some kind of clear synthetic type grease and also lithium CRAP, etc. Even after trying to rinse all that out both with WD40 and scrubbing and washing with degreasers, it's very clear the gummy residue won't clear out and its sticky and gummy and full of dirt and nasty.

The clean one moves SO much better and its very clear much of that is due to lack of gummy stuff causing friction. To be fair maybe just a super high quality syn/teflon grease would be OK but certainly having seem some lithium was a kiss of death to mine. Gonna stick with light lubes for sure from here on in. Even if it means more maintenance.

[f355spider]

Permatex Super Lube grease in a tube. It is clear, does not get gummy or hard with age. Works great on the sunroof tracks and also for the door latch, hood and trunk latches. I've used it for over 15 years with excellent results. The 3oz tube will last you a long time when used sparingly.
https://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-21.../dp/B000XBH9HI