Which oil for high revs?

[prash]

Try this stuff out https://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-20.../dp/B003U4O414

[drewusmaximus]

My wife hates the way I drive. Lol

after changing the oil the ticking quieted down a little. The tick occurs for a few seconds then stops for a few seconds, then starts for a few seconds, then starts for a few seconds, etc, etc,. Here's a link of the ticking sound.

http://vid1378.photobucket.com/album...psq1qrp7bp.mp4

[GregT53]

Hard to know what this could be but it's possible that you've got a lifter or two getting hung up. It might work itself out with the heavier oil. Given the age and miles, I'd wager you've got either a failing VANOS or lifters not loading properly and getting hung up. Like I said yesterday, give it about 1,000 miles with the new oil and back off the high revs.

[drewusmaximus]

Hard to know what this could be but it's possible that you've got a lifter or two getting hung up. It might work itself out with the heavier oil. Given the age and miles, I'd wager you've got either a failing VANOS or lifters not loading properly and getting hung up. Like I said yesterday, give it about 1,000 miles with the new oil and back off the high revs.

i considered your advice on the high revs. If the vanos is failing, can I repair it myself?

[XAlt]

i considered your advice on the high revs. If the vanos is failing, can I repair it myself?

Yes

[GregT53]

It depends on the extent of the problem. At the miles you have, I am guessing you will need more than just resealing the unit to address oil leaks. You may need a complete rebuild which addresses worn bearings and gears. Have a look at drvanos.com or VAC Motorsports to get an idea of what is offered. For the kind of driving you have described you may want to opt for a more robust rebuild which would include special coatings on gears and bearings to handle constant high revving. Or, you could slow down, save some money, and make your wife happy!

[kouks]

Had to have a chuckle with the OP saying he drives everywhere at between 5000-6500rpm. I'm glad I'm not it the passenger seat LOL.

So its an M50 with 210k and for some strange reason you are running it at high RPM. WHY? Its only an M50, you're not getting much out of it than if you were at 3,000 RPM. Keep this up and the tick will not only get louder, but the engine will give up on you too. If you want power in an e34 go get a V8 M60 with a 5 speed, otherwise you're asking way too much from that poor tired M50. Don't get me wrong, the M50 is near bulletproof, but only when driven with some sanity.

On the subject. a high pitch tick is a lifter. You may have collapsed a lifter. Yes they are self adjusting, but since you run dino oil I'm betting the heat from the high revs has coated the engine with "shellack" and plenty of burnt oil (sludge). This may have gotten into the lifters and collapsed one of them, thus the internal springs cannot operate and thus the ticking.

If you want, you can run one or two engine flush sessions with the engine to try and free up the lifter. An engine flush is basically pouring turpentine into the engine and running it at idle for 10 minutes, then draining and using oil as usual. I don't like doing them, but it is the quick way to clean an engine. I do like the other method of using a liter of transmission fluid (any type) and driving the car for about 200 miles, then draining and repeating 2-3 times until the drained oil is not black. Then use only synthetic and use the thicker stuff, 10w-40 or better on older engines. I use LUCAS Oil Stabilizer and 10W-40 on my 240k M50 and it runs like clockwork. I rebuilt the entire head and painstakingly cleaned each lifter though.

[drewusmaximus]

So its an M50 with 210k and for some strange reason you are running it at high RPM. WHY? Its only an M50, you're not getting much out of it than if you were at 3,000 RPM. Keep this up and the tick will not only get louder, but the engine will give up on you too. If you want power in an e34 go get a V8 M60 with a 5 speed, otherwise you're asking way too much from that poor tired M50. Don't get me wrong, the M50 is near bulletproof, but only when driven with some sanity.

On the subject. a high pitch tick is a lifter. You may have collapsed a lifter. Yes they are self adjusting, but since you run dino oil I'm betting the heat from the high revs has coated the engine with "shellack" and plenty of burnt oil (sludge). This may have gotten into the lifters and collapsed one of them, thus the internal springs cannot operate and thus the ticking.

If you want, you can run one or two engine flush sessions with the engine to try and free up the lifter. An engine flush is basically pouring turpentine into the engine and running it at idle for 10 minutes, then draining and using oil as usual. I don't like doing them, but it is the quick way to clean an engine. I do like the other method of using a liter of transmission fluid (any type) and driving the car for about 200 miles, then draining and repeating 2-3 times until the drained oil is not black. Then use only synthetic and use the thicker stuff, 10w-40 or better on older engines. I use LUCAS Oil Stabilizer and 10W-40 on my 240k M50 and it runs like clockwork. I rebuilt the entire head and painstakingly cleaned each lifter though.

It's not about more power. It's about the joy of the drive. The car has a great pickup after 5k. I've tried the quart of tranny fluid in the crankcase in my 240sx. It didn't help the colapsed lifter. I've been using Gummout multi system treatment because it worked great on my Audi A4 Quattro. The Gummout cleaned up the carbon buildup on the piston heads. I think I need to flush the engine a couple of times because after changing the oil twice the oil was black. I forgot about using tranny fluid but, I'll try the tranny method however, after putting in the Rotella T4 and driving the car about 80 miles so far, the ticking stopped. (Thanks GregT53!) But, since I didn't like the way the oil looked during the last oil change, I'll use the tranny method until the oil Is no longer black. I'm also going to throw in some liqui molly.

[BleedsBlue]

^This oil stuff is a slippery (ha!) slope and there are novels of contradicting evidence, BUT: don't worry if the oil changes color. That happens fairly quickly and is not indicative of the oil being "bad" or losing any viscosity, etc. Only worry if you're finding abnormalities like sparkles in the oil.

[drewusmaximus]

^This oil stuff is a slippery (ha!) slope and there are novels of contradicting evidence, BUT: don't worry if the oil changes color. That happens fairly quickly and is not indicative of the oil being "bad" or losing any viscosity, etc. Only worry if you're finding abnormalities like sparkles in the oil.

I agree about the novels out there, which is why I wanted more opinions. Here's the thing. I changed the oil a few weeks ago and used 5w20. The oil that was in the engine was black so, I changed the oil. I drove the car with the 5w20 for about a month, putting around 300 miles on the new oil. Then I was experiencing the tick and posted this thread for advice on oil weight. Then I decided to use Rotella T4. When I drained the oil that I have been driving with for 300 miles it was black! I didn't think the oil would be so black with only 300 miles of use. My plan is to throw in a half quart of tranny fluid and drive it for 200 miles, then change it again. I'll use Rotella T4 again and throw in liqui molly. I'm curious to see how the oil will look when I change it.

[kouks]

There are two reasons oil will go black, with their respective tests...

1. Sludge in the engine that rapidly mixes and discolors new oil. To check for this you need to pull the valve cover and inspect the valve train for oil sludge. All old engines have a little, but if its coated with black tar looking stuff, its going to take a lot of engine flushes or trans fluid to clean it. If you do pull the valve cover on this old engine, you will need to replace your valve cover gaskets, so have that on-hand before you inspect, along with some gasket maker silicone for the required areas. A lot of sludge will sooner or later interfere with lifter operation.

2. Blow by on the cylinder and piston rings. Need to do a compression check on the engine. Low compression can be valves, the head gasket, or worn piston rings/worn cylinder walls. If only one or two cylinders are low compression, that usually is a sign of valve or head gasket problems. If all are close to the same value and low, that points to worn cylinder wall or piston rings. Running at 5000 rpm will certainly increase the aging process.

Option 1 is easy to fix, flush the engine several times and it should clean, or use trans fluid as needed. Option 2 is basically an engine rebuild, or get a used M50 with lower miles and replace your engine, or just drive it as is until the poor thing finally rolls over and dies, which could be quite a bit on the M50 engine. If your state does not have emission testing, you could drive it for quite some time.

[GregT53]

If you want to read a tome on oil go to the E34 section of M5Board.com .

It might be worth getting a used oil analysis from Blackstone Labs to get a baseline on what, if any, metals are getting unusual wear.

[drewusmaximus]

I think the Gummout did a decent job cleaning the internals. I'm going to throw on a catch can to help keep the intake clean and reduce blow by. The engine runs great. Good power, no metal in the oil, and no mayo. I have to drive to Jersey (2 1/2 hour trip) on the 5th for a second job interview. Any advice on what I should do to the car to make sure she will get me there and back home? Should I have a spare of something in case something fails, i.e., coil packs, CPS? I have a couple of coil packs from my e46. Would those fit on the e34? I'm wondering if I should wait until my next oil change to throw in some liqui molly. I'll pour some tranny fluid in the crankcase after I get back from the interview.

[drewusmaximus]

Any last advice before I take this 322 mile (round trip) hike? What should I bring with me i.e., extra coolant, oil, tools, working spare, etc, etc,? I haven't driven the car farther than 25 miles round trip.
After putting in the Rotella T4 and some liqui moly, the ticking stopped however, when I first start the car I hear a loud rattle then it disappears. It sounds like the infamous chain rattle during startup. It shocking that I never heard that sound when I started the car until I added the T4.
Hopefully someone can give me advice on what I should bring so I am not stranded.
Thanks in advance...

[B320i]

A few points:

-20w50 is not too thick for the M50 engine, VANOS or not. Shortly after purchasing my E36, I enquired at my nearest BMW Dealership (A considerable distance away, so via email) about acquiring a stock Owner's Manual. Lo and behold, for European-spec cars sold in Australia, 20w50 is an acceptable choice - particularly for warm climates, 15w40 would also be an acceptable choice, and dare I say what BMW would have used for servicing prior to the introduction of "Special Oils," a 10w40 Semi-Synthetic.

- In 1993, BMW specified oil meeting API SG, and additionally a specification called "CCMC-G5." This was an early specification for oils that could withstand shearing forces better than a conventional oil, in addition to being better-suited to the longer drains Europeans OEs were really beginning to adopt. It was superseded by the ACEA A3/B3 (and now A3/B4) specifications in time.

- 5w30 oils will often be too thin, as most are labelled with the API Resource Converving logo, in addition to an ILSAC rating.
However, 5w30 oils carrying the BMW LongLife-01 approval (in addition to A3/B4) will be thick enough, as their High-Temperature-High-Shear (HTHS) is above 3.5. If it is below this, the oil will not only be less resisant to shearing down, you will hear more noise as the oil is thinner.

- You can use Diesel oil in a petrol (gas) engine, so long as it carries a dual-rating for Petrol AND Diesel. Petrol rating is the API Sx, where 'x' is L, N or M. If the oil does not carry an API rating for Petrol, it is advisable not to use it in your engine. Such a diesel oil contains significantly greater quantities of additives that are not beneficial to a petrol engine, and will hamper proper operation due to the buildup of deposits.
Of course, if you're lucky enough to have a BMW M41 or M51 turbo-diesel, this is a tad different

- Lifter tick can be induced by improper oil grade, collapsed lifters (this is a pronounced ticking sound) or simply poor quality oils used for excessive oil change intervals. In some instances, the lower (Primary) chain tensioner can become worn and restrict oil flow to the lifters in Cylinders #1 and 2.
If you're always running high rpm, then your problem is oil starvation. Unless racing, high rpm running is a waste of fuel and places additional wear on your engine, especially if the oil is not up to temperature. For the record, it takes 20-40mins of driving before the oil gets anywhere near "hot."

Conclusion:
Run ANY oil you want, provided it meets the viscosity requirements outlined in the owner's manual, and has the appropriate API rating: SL, SM or SN. Change it at a reasonable interval - for the M50 motors, BMW used a 7,500 mile interval (or thereabouts) with the Service Indicator lights. Use a synthetic oil if you will experience very cold conditions, or frequent short tripping. A mineral oil will also work, but you may wish to change it sooner under these circumstances.

Just remember, that any reputable brand of oil today greatly exceeds the quality of the API SG / CCMC-G5 oils BMW recommended way back in 1993.

If you suspect the lifters may have an accumulation of crud, run several shorter oil change intervals.

[B320i]

Items worth carrying:
- A spare set of drive belts (particularly your main belt powering the Power-steering, Alternator and most importantly, water pump & engine fan)
- Distilled water, or a premix of coolant
- A quart of oil
- Ensure spare tire is correctly pressurised, ensure toolkit is present and you understand how the OE jack works.
- Spare fuses - the fuse box should already have some, but worth checking just in case
- Spare globes if you suspect your lights may be suspect.
- Spare batteries for alarm FOB if in use, and a spare key for the car. Key for the alarm siren (if fitted) may be desireable.

Pre-Departure Checklist:
- Inspect underneath the car for any obvious signs of fluid leakage. Note that a leaking valve cover isn't anything to be worried about.
- Check the oil on the dipstick, add if necessary (note that on long drives, the oil may appear to be consumed as moisture burns off)
- When the engine is cold, check the coolant level. Top up as necessary.
- Inspect the drive belts for any cracking or signs of perishing. Listen for any unusual sounds.
- Check the tire pressures, ensure the tires are free from any bulging and that the tread is in serviceable condition.
- Refill washer fluid resouvoir
- Ensure battery electrolyte is topped off, if applicable.
- Check operation of all exterior lights: Flashers, brake lights, front & rear fog-lamps (where fitted), parking lights, low & high beam lights, daytime running lamps (if fitted)
- Full tank of fuel

[drewusmaximus]

Thanks for the wealth of information. I'll do my best in sticking up for the ride. Thanks again!!

[GregT53]

A few things to add:

Fire extinguisher, halon type if you can spend the extra bucks because it does not leave a mess.

These are two somewhat expensive parts that I carry: cam position sensor because when it goes you are dead in the water. It's a part you won't find on the road and you could get stuck waiting for it. I also carry a throttle position sensor.

Fuel pump, same reasons.

Have a good trip!

[silverex84]

Try using the moly-graphene based Everglide as your oil additive. A nano formula is effective for older car engines. The noise on my car during high revs and the overheating issues are now gone.