Are adjustable sway bar endlinks necessary in my case?

[LockDots]

I'm in the middle of installing a Koni 1145 kit (Koni shocks & Eibach Springs). It's supposed to lower the front ~1.5" and the rear ~0.5". How critical is using the adjustable end links on the front and rear sway bars? Are they even critical to begin with on a car that's being lowered only moderately?

It's not my daily driver, nor is it a track rat, but I don't want the body roll to be negatively affected by the sways if it can be avoided. That's assuming that leaving the stock endlinks in would even cause enough of a difference that can be noticed to begin with.

[TheJordanWhitte]

Im about 1.75" lower and had the UUC front adjustable links when I upgraded my sway bar but they kept coming lose and making clunky sounds so I went back to the oem end link and couldn't tell the difference.

[TostitoBandito]

In the rear probably not. In the front, I'd recommend it. The stock links will probably still work, but will be inducing forces and preload on the sway bar since they'll be longer than necessary once the suspension is loaded at your new ride height.

You can test for this by getting your car level with the tires on ramps or blocks so the suspension is loaded as it would be on the road. Go disconnect one of the end links from the sway bar. If you need to muscle/flex the bar into position to get that link back in place then that means there's preload on the bar which isn't ideal for performance and can also cause noises. Ideally the end links should be sized such that the bar can be connected up to a loaded suspension without needing to apply any force to the bar, and so it's snug and doesn't rattle around once connected.

[Gordo0208]

In the rear probably not. In the front, I'd recommend it. The stock links will probably still work, but will be inducing forces and preload on the sway bar since they'll be longer than necessary once the suspension is loaded at your new ride height.

You can test for this by getting your car level with the tires on ramps or blocks so the suspension is loaded as it would be on the road. Go disconnect one of the end links from the sway bar. If you need to muscle/flex the bar into position to get that link back in place then that means there's preload on the bar which isn't ideal for performance and can also cause noises. Ideally the end links should be sized such that the bar can be connected up to a loaded suspension without needing to apply any force to the bar, and so it's snug and doesn't rattle around once connected.

I find this interesting as most articles I've read on racing state preload is good for performance, of course moderation should always be exercised.
Lack of preload would make the car feel loose on entry wouldn't it? And if the car is loose on entry all you can do is slow down so my understanding is that some preload is better than no preload.
I don't race either but I definitely enjoy spirited driving and enjoy the feeling of a tight front end.
I don't know how you feel LockDots but I personally enjoy a little speed on the I-495 on/off ramps.


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[pbonsalb]

No preload is correct. Do the Tostito test. Maybe ideally you should have an adjustable link.on one side, maybe not.

Try the Meyle HD links if you pass or are close to passing the Tostito test. If not buy or make adjustable links. Cut and thread the rod, add a union and stop nuts.

[scoobiedoo2029]

your not really going to notice the difference in street driving, especialy with a lowering spring and not coil overs.

im running stock end links on turner bars and coils because heim joints dont last on a street car, im also close to your ride height. there was someone selling adjustable links for the front that had sealed ball joints, but i cant remember who. the rears i never saw a street friendly link, maybe a non-m front sway link might work though, ive been meaning to see if i can make it fit, i havent been part shopping in awhile though.

[Gordo0208]

No preload is correct. Do the Tostito test. Maybe ideally you should have an adjustable link.on one side, maybe not.

Try the Meyle HD links if you pass or are close to passing the Tostito test. If not buy or make adjustable links. Cut and thread the rod, add a union and stop nuts.

http://www.joesracing.com/rt-4180-setting-the-bar.html

So they are incorrect?

your not really going to notice the difference in street driving, especialy with a lowering spring and not coil overs.

im running stock end links on turner bars and coils because heim joints dont last on a street car, im also close to your ride height. there was someone selling adjustable links for the front that had sealed ball joints, but i cant remember who. the rears i never saw a street friendly link, maybe a non-m front sway link might work though, ive been meaning to see if i can make it fit, i havent been part shopping in awhile though.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...e46-z4/?pdk=AQ

Turner does

Noticed they also state preload is bad



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[TostitoBandito]

I think that's accurate. Like that article said, it will change the dynamics and stiffness of your sway bar from what it is normally. Sure you can use this as a hack to effectively make your bar stiffer in lieu of an actual adjustable bar, but this doesn't really have an application outside of trying to get a car perfectly setup for racing at the track. If you're running OEM sway bars or an aftermarket kit they are designed to be a certain stiffness front vs rear. If you introduce preload into the equation you're changing that ratio and the handling of the car as a result. Removing preload allows the bars to operate at their original specifications. Whether or not that's something good is up to the user.

[Gordo0208]

I think that's accurate. Like that article said, it will change the dynamics and stiffness of your sway bar from what it is normally. Sure you can use this as a hack to effectively make your bar stiffer in lieu of an actual adjustable bar, but this doesn't really have an application outside of trying to get a car perfectly setup for racing at the track. If you're running OEM sway bars or an aftermarket kit they are designed to be a certain stiffness front vs rear. If you introduce preload into the equation you're changing that ratio and the handling of the car as a result. Removing preload allows the bars to operate at their original specifications. Whether or not that's something good is up to the user.

Ok got it.
That I completely understand and agree with.
I know the OP is talking strictly street terms, I was more interested in learning the overall of sway bar preload as what you guys were stating goes against what I've read but you guys have helped me do just that.


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[aeronaut]

FYI, removing preload only requires one adjustable end-link. Setting the right lever-arm angle (it's probably called something else by people that really know suspension) requires 2 adjustable endlinks.

And now that we know I'm not a suspension expert, I don't see how adding sway bar preload could be a real tuning tool for anyone except the pros. Preload adds spring rate to one corner, and reduces spring rate at the other corner. Right? Probably a good tuning trick for circle track though.

[LockDots]

This turned out to be quite informative!

I think for now, I'm going to put in new OE replacement endlinks. I doubt I'll feel much of a directly related difference considering I'm also lowering the car and refreshing the entire suspension at once. AKA lots of factors changing at the same time. I'll keep an eye on them though. If I find it doesn't feel right for street driving (which I doubt will be obviously apparent) or I destroy them a lot sooner than expect then I'll get the adjustable ones.

[gingerELITE]

Preload adds spring rate to one corner, and reduces spring rate at the other corner. Right? Probably a good tuning trick for circle track though.

This is correct. Study how a sway bar works and you'll see that preload will create uneven forces on either side of the car. This definitely can be helpful but for the vast majority of cars (especially street driven cars) no preload is best.

FWIW I have GC coilovers with the car about 1.5" lower than stock and a UUC sway bar up front with stock end links and the bar is perfectly neutral. Not sure if GC moved the mounting points on the struts vs the stock suspension but it works great for me.

[scooper]

I suggest stock links for cars that are lowered 1.6-1.7" or less up front. For reference I was riding on double adjustable ASTs and used turner's 250-265mm adjustable links. I believe I had them set at around 252mm. The car might have been lowered about 2" up front. I can't remember exactly.

I'm back on regular dampers and regular springs though my car is lowered maybe 0.8" in front (dinan/konis). I'm back to using stock links. No noise no fuss.