95 M3 GTX3582R build(from supercharged setup)

[95AWM3]

Hey again guys,

TL;DR if you are planning to supercharge/budget turbo setup and think it will be enough, just listen to these guys and save your money for a decent turbo build...

Last year, about this time I had finished up my Vortech stage 2 build, using a V3-SI trim impeller and air to air intercooler, the setup made 367whp/300 ft-lbs on 12psi (93 octane). I was rather unhappy with the numbers, and the supercharged power got too easy too quickly. I made my way to the dark side of proper boost though. Here is my new adventure in going from that to a turbo setup, nothing insanely special here, most people have done this same setup, its tried and true, so far its been everything I expected.

Teaser: excuse the painted stock top hats and ugly brake fluid reservoir, those are in the middle of being swapped with new stuff.


1995 M3 Coupe, unknown miles s50
ARP head studs
Cut ring head gasket and copper spacer
SPA T3 Manifold with new exhaust studs and nuts
Garrett GTX3582R T3 3” V band .82 housing
TiAL MV-R 44mm wastegate(red/black springs in ~10psi) open dump
TiAL Q 50mm blow off with -11psi spring, I see about -16/-17 in/hg at idle
MAXpsi boost proof ICV hoses
Vibrant air filter
Vibrant air to air intercooler
Rally Road oil supply line from vanos
Rally Road motor mount arm
Rev Shift green motor mounts
TRM coolant fittings, plumbed from old throttle body coolant lines
3” cold side/2.5” hot side piping
Riot racing 68mm throttle body
Aeromotive 320lph fuel pump
Aeromotive FPR and gauge (using OBD2 fuel rail now)
60lb injectors/tuning and MAF from RK-Tunes (93 pump gas, no E85 local to me)
3” V band downpipe, that Y pipes into my old UUC System U muffler about half way down(will eventually replace with full 3.5”)
FX Stage 3 clutch, chromoly flywheel-same clutch that I had broken in with the supercharged setup
AKG Stage 2 shifter with new selection rod
NGK BKR7E spark plugs on a .0024 gap
Mishimoto radiator + Mishimoto black anodized overflow tank, Mishi black radiator hoses, SPAL e fan
CES Motorsports 3” aluminum intake elbow welded onto the 68mm Throttle body
AEM Water/methanol injection at elbow before throttle body (1000cc nozzle)
AEM UEGO wideband
AEM Tru-Boost
Rally road gauge pod on steering column
D-Force LTW5 wheels in 17x9 +41 all around
BF Goodrich G-force comp 2. 245/40/17 all around
Koni Yellow shocks/H&R cup series springs(being replaced with the FI Broadway suspension setup, more on that down further)

A lot has changed over the last year, May 24 2016 I decided to part with the supercharger, and sold off my full kit for $2600. The full motor came out of the car, as I wanted to clean up my engine bay, I won’t show all the pictures of this process, as I have another thread on cleaning the bay up. https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...the-engine-bay

I shaved down all the seam sealer, did a mild wiring tuck, shaved the brackets for cruise control, washer fluid container, and also took out the tray under the DME compartment. After all that, did some hole welding, and some fill primer, and off to paint. The whole engine bay, and exterior of the car got shot with Alpine white III again. I decided against doing my door jams and anything else. I also added a Mateo rear diffuser, GT-R vented hood, LTW low rise wing and Reiger GT lip to the car during this time.



The full rear diffuser wasn't on in the above pic, but it has since been fully installed again!






I have put about 600~ miles on the setup so far, one small oil leak that I can’t quite find just yet came up in about the last 100, which is getting on my wastegate dump tube and smoking at lights every once in a while. The power is great, the first 400 miles on it were at 8psi spring pressure, and even that felt quicker than the supercharger on 12psi. Right now I am on 10psi wastegate spring, and am slowly but surely trying to figure out the proper duty cycle to get one setting at 14 psi, and then my high setting of 18psi for any track fun or some Mexico runs.

We were going to be putting on the Broadway suspension last weekend, however we found that my previously repaired rear shock mounts have torn. Instead of welding these back up, I have ordered the replacement pieces from BMW, and will be drilling out the spot welds and welding new RSM’s in this weekend, along with some ECS reinforcement pieces. Hopefully we can tackle all that this weekend and get the coil overs in and dialed in.

I plan to build a block when I get some spare time, probably a Weisco/K1 setup, just for some insurance down the line. After that happens I will probably think about standalone, been keeping my eye on the MSPNP thread, but might go an AEM route. Fingers crossed right now that this will hold together all summer to have some fun with, if I get everything dialed in at the 10/14/18psi settings then expect to see some dyno numbers soon!

Supercharged setup build thread for reference too: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-stage-2-build

[Butters Stoch]

Perfect street car setup. Keep it that way. Don't go chasing waterfalls of power. From someone who has personally done it, stick to your setup around 20-22psi for high boost with maybe a simple meth setup.

Good job.

[rajicase]

Chase the power man. Chase it. Go for 800.

[95AWM3]

Perfect street car setup. Keep it that way. Don't go chasing waterfalls of power. From someone who has personally done it, stick to your setup around 20-22psi for high boost with maybe a simple meth setup.

Good job.

thank you Butters! Means a lot coming from one of the best! I do have the AEM meth setup. Would the start and stop stream be best decided by my tuner? Or should I just set it up to come on about 8psi, and hit full spray by say 14psi? I am not sure if I am overthinking this part or not.

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Chase the power man. Chase it. Go for 800.

Raj stahppppp!

[vr6dubny]

Did you use the spa wastegate pipe?

[95AWM3]

Did you use the spa wastegate pipe?

no sir all the fab stuff was done by a local shop called Fuse Fabrication.

[vr6dubny]

My plan is to fab all mine as well, but sometimes I look at that spa wastegate pipe and think it would make life easy. I remember talking to you about your charger setup last year, i'm glad I chose to just go turbo.. Your install looks very clean, sucks about those rear towers, i'm sure it will be better than new when you are done.

[postsmart]

How's you're clutch holding up so far? I would think it's kind of weak for a set up like that. From what I thought it's a sub 500 kind of a deal.

[95AWM3]

How's you're clutch holding up so far? I would think it's kind of weak for a set up like that. From what I thought it's a sub 500 kind of a deal.

so far so good! Originally this clutch was bought for the supercharger setup, but plenty of people on here have used it getting close to 500wtq with no issues. I don't think I will be over 500 on my setup, if so I will upgrade to a UUC twin or south bend.

[bimmerbumm193]

I just did both rear shock towers and its not that bad of a job except the sheet metal back there is so effing thin its hard to weld it to the new shock tower plate. I think the trick is to make sure the new plate is pressed SOLID against the shock tower at ALL of the holes. A few years ago I did the same job on another car and I had better results by actually temporarily screwing the plate up against the shock tower which was much better than someone trying to push the plate up.

[dburt86]

I just did both rear shock towers and its not that bad of a job except the sheet metal back there is so effing thin its hard to weld it to the new shock tower plate. I think the trick is to make sure the new plate is pressed SOLID against the shock tower at ALL of the holes. A few years ago I did the same job on another car and I had better results by actually temporarily screwing the plate up against the shock tower which was much better than someone trying to push the plate up.

Thats a good tip!

[postsmart]

Ok. SO i have a question for you since im OBD1 also with very similar set up and same tuner(not finished yet).. I actually have been wondering about this for quite some time:

When we change boost pressure, do we need to change tune as well? I know we can not remote tune with OBD1. Also did you have to take your car to dyno to fine tune? And if yes, what was your experience with the base tune vs final tune? If anyone else can chime in, or to share additional info on the subject i would appreciate it. Thanks

[vr6dubny]

I researched tuning options. From what I understand I was going to get initial tune then log boost/afr/tach and send the logs to rk and he would adjust the tune. You do need a boost/afr guage that will log for this.

[95AWM3]

Ok. SO i have a question for you since im OBD1 also with very similar set up and same tuner(not finished yet).. I actually have been wondering about this for quite some time:

When we change boost pressure, do we need to change tune as well? I know we can not remote tune with OBD1. Also did you have to take your car to dyno to fine tune? And if yes, what was your experience with the base tune vs final tune? If anyone else can chime in, or to share additional info on the subject i would appreciate it. Thanks

I was not told otherwise by Jordan, the exact email says "I would start with a 10psi spring. Then use a boost controller to work your way up to a maximum of 17psi."


I took that as, no need for revisions on the tune, that I am good to get dialed in and then gradually go up to 17psi. The most I have done now is 14, my water meth is throwing a error though so I turned the boost controller off(so just wastegate 10psi now) until I figure out the error.

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I researched tuning options. From what I understand I was going to get initial tune then log boost/afr/tach and send the logs to rk and he would adjust the tune. You do need a boost/afr guage that will log for this.

This is what I did with my supercharged setup, but honestly the tune feels so good just out of the box with the turbo tune I might not even put time into waiting for a revision. I don't have logging software just yet, looking at a Zeitronix kit for possibly something to do this winter.

[1000hp]

Not trying to hijack here, but my crappy Powerdyne setup made 375whp and 315lb/ft on 7psi (Dynojet). You should have been well above the numbers you made with 12psi.
Those numbers are not what one should expect from a supercharged S50.

[pbonsalb]

Not trying to hijack here, but my crappy Powerdyne setup made 375whp and 315lb/ft on 7psi (Dynojet).

Not likely on an S52. Maybe 300 rwhp. I had a crappy Powerdyne on an S52 and then a Vortech S Trim and then a Vortech T Trim. The OP's results for 12 psi with a Vortech on a stock S52 are in the right ballpark. E85 tuning and mods would give more power of course.

[illmatik]

Love your build man. We're almost twins. I'm getting ready to ditch the VF kit in my alpine white M3 for a Garrett GT35R, RSI top mount and all the goodies involved.

[95AWM3]

Not trying to hijack here, but my crappy Powerdyne setup made 375whp and 315lb/ft on 7psi (Dynojet). You should have been well above the numbers you made with 12psi.
Those numbers are not what one should expect from a supercharged S50.

I thought so at first as well, but I think with just a remote tune, this is about the middle of where people sit with the stage 2 vortech stuff. I am sure had I went with an RMS aftercooler I could have seen another 1-2 psi without the loss going air to air, but who knows.

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Love your build man. We're almost twins. I'm getting ready to ditch the VF kit in my alpine white M3 for a Garrett GT35R, RSI top mount and all the goodies involved.

Nice man! There is another local that I have been sharing info with who is also going that route, excited to see more builds pop up. Feel free to message me any questions on things as you go. Always glad to help out.

[1000hp]

Not likely on an S52. Maybe 300 rwhp. I had a crappy Powerdyne on an S52 and then a Vortech S Trim and then a Vortech T Trim. The OP's results for 12 psi with a Vortech on a stock S52 are in the right ballpark. E85 tuning and mods would give more power of course.

I'm not speculating. Those are my actual numbers. Powerdyne BD11 @ 7psi. Full-bolt-on S52 + the boost.
Not a miracle dyno either. The car made 322whp at 5.5psi on another dyno, in hotter weather, with no intercooler and jacked-up cam timing.
I'm in the process of swapping to a Vortech V2 Sci. I sure hope it doesn't somehow suck more than the Powerdyne.

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I thought so at first as well, but I think with just a remote tune, this is about the middle of where people sit with the stage 2 vortech stuff. I am sure had I went with an RMS aftercooler I could have seen another 1-2 psi without the loss going air to air, but who knows.
.

I have a custom water/air intercooler similar to the RMS unit. But if you're measuring 12psi at the intake manifold, then that is what you're getting. Something must have been wrong somewhere if you ended up with only 367whp at that much boost. Should have been well into the 400s.



No wonder you guys hate on superchargers so much if those are the results you're getting.

[pbonsalb]

I still do not believe a non intercooled Powerdyne will make much over 300 at 7 psi on an S52. Mine had schricks, headers, track pipe, rear exhaust, m50 manifold, etc. I don't even think the BD11 could spin fast enough to move that air. I had the HD belts, ceramic bearings, Dinah getting, bigger crank play, etc.

[95AWM3]

I'm not speculating. Those are my actual numbers. Powerdyne BD11 @ 7psi. Full-bolt-on S52 + the boost.
Not a miracle dyno either. The car made 322whp at 5.5psi on another dyno, in hotter weather, with no intercooler and jacked-up cam timing.
I'm in the process of swapping to a Vortech V2 Sci. I sure hope it doesn't somehow suck more than the Powerdyne.

Do you have your sheets handy from that run? Not doubting the numbers, but it would just be interesting to look at it compared to the other ones. The only powerdyne results in the sticky thread are one making 292whp at 3psi, and the other making 307whp at 9psi. Are their multiple units of powerdyne or something that is accounting for these differences?

[1000hp]

I still do not believe a non intercooled Powerdyne will make much over 300 at 7 psi on an S52. Mine had schricks, headers, track pipe, rear exhaust, m50 manifold, etc. I don't even think the BD11 could spin fast enough to move that air. I had the HD belts, ceramic bearings, Dinah getting, bigger crank play, etc.

Well, it happened. The first 5.5psi when it made 322whp runs were under totally suboptimal conditions (high ambient temp, no intercooler, intake cam timing off, etc. Second time the car was dyno'd, with larger injectors and making 7psi at redline, it was pig rich (~10:1 in boost) and made 347whp. The most recent dyno session, after re-tuning the car, it made back-to-back-to-back 37Xwhp pulls, with a couple of pulls in the low 380s.
The Mustang guys routinely make 10psi with Powerdyne S/Cs. Not sure how long their belts last, but it can be done. Mine was spinning to about 39,000RPM (impeller speed) which is near the limit.

[95AWM3]

Also for a quick update on the car, I got the Broadway Suspension installed this past week. Still dialing it in and finding what settings I like, but so far so good, not bouncy, and feels good in the corners so far!

The engine bay is about as good as it gets for now until I can get a new brake fluid reservoir or bleach/paint the existing one.

Working the boost up, I am seeing a solid 10.5 psi on this spring setup now. I got a 14psi setting(b) on my boost controller dialed in, I think I am at 45-50 duty cycle. I was going to run this setting more, but my methanol controller(AEM) is throwing error 2, pump open circuit, so I have to go back over the wiring. After I get that handled and 14psi worked in, I will get a 18psi setting dialed in and hit the rollers.

[1000hp]

Do you have your sheets handy from that run? Not doubting the numbers, but it would just be interesting to look at it compared to the other ones. The only powerdyne results in the sticky thread are one making 292whp at 3psi, and the other making 307whp at 9psi. Are their multiple units of powerdyne or something that is accounting for these differences?

I'll get all my sheets together when I get to a computer, but here is a lousy pic of the most recent one.(posting from my phone)
image.jpg

Link to the first time I dyno'd the car on lower boost (5.5psi), no intercooler.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...5#post28810285

Looking for the pre-dyno-tuned sheet on 7psi when it made 347whp, and waiting for an actual scan of the 37Xwhp sheet.
Again, please excuse the hijack.

[rajicase]

Man I should have dynod my s256 on that dyno, I woulda made 550 easily ffs