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Thread: New Batch of CSI mirrors have a major problem!

  1. #1
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    New Batch of CSI mirrors have a major problem!

    For everyone that have been waiting for your CSI mirrors for a year (or more).

    I just recieved the side that I have been waiting for a year the holes on triangular install are not threaded! The painted was the older version that I got a year ago and the one that is not painted is the new one I received without thread. There is no way to tap / thread the hole either because it is 5.4 mm and inorder to have m6 bolt threat you would need a minimum of 4.5 mm. IMG_20170416_110025 (3).jpg

    Has anyone recieved the new batch of CSI mirrors?
    Steve with Gault has filed a "Puma Case" with BMW already


    .IMG_20170416_110021.jpgIMG_20170416_110021.jpgIMG_20170416_105907 (1).jpgIMG_20170416_105907 (1).jpg

  2. #2
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    Can you not just use the original mounting bolt to make the threads? I have gotten handfuls of parts that don't come threaded. I just use my battery impact gun to run the bolts in, cutting it's own threads. Works perfectly. It's specifically been door lock actuators, and several trunk lock actuators as well.

    Come to think of it, I'm fairly certain that I've installed several mirrors that didn't have pre-tapped holes.
    Last edited by White94RX; 04-19-2017 at 04:22 PM.
    BMW Level 1 Master Technician

  3. #3
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    Have you considered using smaller diameter (M5) fasteners and tapping the mirror bosses accordingly?
    Current:
    1994 E31 850CSi Sterlingsilber/Anthracite Buffalo

    Previous:
    1987 E28 M5 Delphin
    1986 E23 M745iA Arctic Blue
    1986 E24 635CSi Polaris
    1976 E3 3.0 Si Arctic Blue

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by White94RX View Post
    ...Works perfectly...
    No, it doesn't.
    And you will never be allowed near my car.

    I am the both the painter and machinist who immediately spotted the problem, and rejected the piece due to technical considerations.
    The holes are not only not tapped, but they are bored or cast past the starting diameter for a proper tap procedure.
    There are schedules, and math behind the schedules, detailing thread depth vs starting bore.
    In this case, if I went ahead as-is, we would end up with loose threads, inviting to be stripped.
    Using your method, the zinc alloy boss might crack as reported elsewhere.

    I might be able to save this using helicoils, if there was enough boss diameter but, stepping back, I would be taking a risk when this is supplier's responsibility to deliver a product, capable of being installed without heroics and without risk of further damaging the piece.





    *****
    kiwiCSi, you're going the wrong way and you will also never get to work on my car.
    {ed: Let me elaborate just a bit further...
    Alex and I discussed the option of using larger, non-standard hardware that did not match left to right side, but this was rejected as leaving crap around for some future owner/mechanic to step into.
    Again, why? Not our problem.}
    Last edited by Hyper; 04-19-2017 at 05:22 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
    kiwiCSi, you're going the wrong way and you will also never get to work on my car.
    Sorry, I mis-read the first post with regard to hole diameters - so they are already too large, with insufficient material for cutting an M6 thread, but by the look of those bosses there could be enough meat left to helicoil them as suggested, if only to the smaller M5 thread size.
    The capability of three smaller diameter screws would be only marginally less than the original M6 bolts (individual fastener shear/tensile strength is actually the same) and these mirrors don't react any significant loads anyway...they'll still shear off if you hit a tree or a wall.

    If your only other option is to return the part and wait another 6-12 months for a replacement mirror assy, then this could be a workable temporary - or even permanent - solution.
    I do see where Hyper is coming from though...if the bosses get damaged during the repair process, then you're stuck with a non-returnable part.
    Current:
    1994 E31 850CSi Sterlingsilber/Anthracite Buffalo

    Previous:
    1987 E28 M5 Delphin
    1986 E23 M745iA Arctic Blue
    1986 E24 635CSi Polaris
    1976 E3 3.0 Si Arctic Blue

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
    No, it doesn't.
    And you will never be allowed near my car.
    Good, I wouldn't touch your car anyway. You couldn't afford me to work on your car. Not sure why you're being an asshole for no reason.

    My only point was that BMW does ship out parts with non-tapped holes. Whether or not your precious mirrors have the correct size mounting parts or not isn't my problem.
    BMW Level 1 Master Technician

  7. #7
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    White94RX, Do a search on Hyper's username and you will quickly realize why he wouldn't let anyone touch his car One the most sophisticated swaps Alpina X5 swap in an 840ci, which burned out a couple of fuses in my brain and many others. Hyper Door Handle Fix, and Hyper Koni inserts build.

    Thats why no one touches his car.


    Quote Originally Posted by White94RX View Post
    Good, I wouldn't touch your car anyway. You couldn't afford me to work on your car. Not sure why you're being an asshole for no reason.

    My only point was that BMW does ship out parts with non-tapped holes. Whether or not your precious mirrors have the correct size mounting parts or not isn't my problem.

  8. #8
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    kiwiCSI, That was my initial thought as well, but after discussing it with Hyper and meditating on it overnight. The question of why do we buy OEM M Division part? Because its supposed to fit perfectly without any issues at a higher level of manufacturing standard.

    edit......Please note the price jumped to almost $600 for the missing side I was waiting from $225!!!

    If this was tuner car, I would have modified some E36 M mirrors and put it on there. The goal with this specific car was to hit "refresh" on everything with all OEM parts when possible. Suspension all CSI (Sway Bars, Springs, Shocks) except the front Koni Inserts. Exhaust, all OEM.....and yes I know for almost the same price I could have put a eisenmann e31 on there, but again it would defeat the purpose of building an original example 1993 850ci 6 speed.

    I am waiting to hear back from Steve (Gault) with a solution. Waiting another 6-12 months might be the only feasible option. Frustrating situation.......

    Alex

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiCSi View Post
    Sorry, I mis-read the first post with regard to hole diameters - so they are already too large, with insufficient material for cutting an M6 thread, but by the look of those bosses there could be enough meat left to helicoil them as suggested, if only to the smaller M5 thread size.
    The capability of three smaller diameter screws would be only marginally less than the original M6 bolts (individual fastener shear/tensile strength is actually the same) and these mirrors don't react any significant loads anyway...they'll still shear off if you hit a tree or a wall.

    If your only other option is to return the part and wait another 6-12 months for a replacement mirror assy, then this could be a workable temporary - or even permanent - solution.
    I do see where Hyper is coming from though...if the bosses get damaged during the repair process, then you're stuck with a non-returnable part.
    Last edited by alex840; 04-20-2017 at 07:16 PM.

  9. #9
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    a couple of options of bmw don't come through with a viable solution
    1 fill the hole with a piece of tight fitting wooden dowel and some epoxy(works well with fiberglass parts although maybe a little rough for your 8)
    2 liquid metal epoxy up fill the hole drill & tap as per usual

  10. #10
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    Can't you glue in a threated brass bushing ?
    BMW 850 CSI march 1994 (EU spec)
    BMW 850 CSI november 1994 (EU spec)


  11. #11
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    Update: Gault BMW found another one and shipping it out soon. Maybe this was a one off thing, and the new one is threaded.

    Thanks to everyone for their input.

  12. #12
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    Hi Guys,

    I realize this thread is over a year old, but will give this a try since this issue was discussed a bit here. I recently bought two, new CSI mirrors for my 850i. Neither have any of the mounting bolt holes tapped (see pictures below).

    Is this a manufacturing defect? ...or are you supposed to use the original mirror bolts to cut new threads? ...or use a heli-coil, etc?

    I haven't contacted the seller yet. Was hoping to hear from the experts (you guys) first, to find out if this is how they should be, or not.

    Any feedback is appreciated.

    850csi_mirror_no-threads_right.jpg850csi_mirror_no-threads_left.jpg

  13. #13
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    The set I just purchased are not tapped, but is this really a problem? And, out of curiosity, where did you buy yours from?
    Mike Barrett
    94 850CSi, Hellrot over silbergrau dunkel/silbergrau hell
    96 850Ci, Oxfordgrun over silbergrau hell

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbarrett635 View Post
    The set I just purchased are not tapped, but is this really a problem? And, out of curiosity, where did you buy yours from?
    Not sure if itís a problem. Hoping to find out here. Maybe you do just screw the old bolt in to cut threads. Seems a little funky though. Iím wondering if anyone has bought new ones that already have threads? If so, I may send these back. If they all come this way, and you do just screw in the bolts, Iíll do that.

    I got mine from ECS Tuning.

  15. #15
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    I bought mine from Schmiedmann in the Netherlands, although I suppose ultimately all of them come from Europe one way or another. I guess whatever batch was most recently manufactured, they are all that way now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mike Barrett
    94 850CSi, Hellrot over silbergrau dunkel/silbergrau hell
    96 850Ci, Oxfordgrun over silbergrau hell

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbarrett635 View Post
    I bought mine from Schmiedmann in the Netherlands, although I suppose ultimately all of them come from Europe one way or another. I guess whatever batch was most recently manufactured, they are all that way now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Just looked on EBAY and a pair from Schmiedmann is $1500, could that be right?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by IJustDrive View Post
    Just looked on EBAY and a pair from Schmiedmann is $1500, could that be right?
    I bought direct from their website, cost was under $1000 for mirrors with glass. For $158 more, they will paint them for you.

    UPDATE: Here's the link: https://www.schmiedmann.com/en/bmw-E...-pg503-catn-ol

    $953.73 shipped for the set. If you don't have or want memory mirrors, you can get them for just $700 shipped.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by mbarrett635; 11-02-2018 at 04:15 AM.
    Mike Barrett
    94 850CSi, Hellrot over silbergrau dunkel/silbergrau hell
    96 850Ci, Oxfordgrun over silbergrau hell

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipray View Post
    ...Maybe you do just screw the old bolt in to cut threads....
    Maybe you get a blind tap and cut the threads properly.
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (soon to be Dinan TT 6L)
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  19. #19
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    I had no idea these were available again -- at least one side has been impossible to find for as long as I've been paying attention.

    Seeing the prices, though, and given the condition of my car...my strong inclination would be to modify the M3 mirrors for something like a quarter of the cost. Mine's never going to be a concours restoration, but I do like the aero-style mirrors a lot more than the stock dumbo ears. Even if they aren't as good for visibility, yada yada yada. I'm talking with some folks about getting my project underway in the next week or two, so I may go search out the threads about retrofitting the M3 units...

    Cheers, John

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukegrad98 View Post
    I had no idea these were available again -- at least one side has been impossible to find for as long as I've been paying attention.

    Seeing the prices, though, and given the condition of my car...my strong inclination would be to modify the M3 mirrors for something like a quarter of the cost. Mine's never going to be a concours restoration, but I do like the aero-style mirrors a lot more than the stock dumbo ears. Even if they aren't as good for visibility, yada yada yada. I'm talking with some folks about getting my project underway in the next week or two, so I may go search out the threads about retrofitting the M3 units...

    Cheers, John
    My parts guy at the local dealership told me that there are hundreds of them in stock in Europe -- the problem is getting them here. US Dealers apparently can't order them, although apparently some manage to do so. But Schmiedmann has the best prices I've found.
    Mike Barrett
    94 850CSi, Hellrot over silbergrau dunkel/silbergrau hell
    96 850Ci, Oxfordgrun over silbergrau hell

  21. #21
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    Gheezh I'll have to check the studs on my set currently unpainted and in my trunk. I got mine for $600 shipped (no glass though) from a nice bloke in the UK. He bought his a long time ago from a local parts dealer and never installed them. I'm really curious to see if they're threaded or not.

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