Out with the Old (S54 Swap Inside)

[NeilM]

Umm, photo links in post #25 above need work.

Neil

[Reprisal]

Umm, photo links in post #25 above need work.

Neil

Fixed it. I tried adding a sixth photo, and the forum couldn't deal.

We took out the O2 and EGT sensors and got the motor in, but as my buddy put it... 'she ain't happy'. Aside from the bung holes being in completely inaccessible locations, that header on the right is almost on top of the frame rail.

WCS_1700.JPG

Also, my buddy can't believe how close this thing is to the firewall. Can anyone confirm that it's not too far back?

WCS_1701.jpg

WCS_1703.JPG

In other news, new walboro pump went in pretty easy and I'm currently working on the getting the bracket in place for the throttle pedal. Going to try some Loctite epoxy for plastics to mate the bottom of the e36 pedal to the base of the e46 bracket.

[TH3 Shifty]

eBay headers, not all are created equal

[GG///M3]

eBay headers, not all are created equal

Correct


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reprisal]

eBay headers, not all are created equal

Indeed. I'm looking at my options to get a different set. These look like the O2 bungs are turned in a better spot...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Performance-...4/332167802853

Anyone with decent fitting ebay headers care to share which vendor they bought theirs from?

[kevinwilly]

I've used Manzo headers on both the cars I've swapped. They seemed to have decent reviews and the fitment was fine.

Also, I was able to get another diff housing. It'll be here next weekend. So you can sell your 3.23 after I swap input flanges on it....

[Reprisal]

I've used Manzo headers on both the cars I've swapped. They seemed to have decent reviews and the fitment was fine.

Also, I was able to get another diff housing. It'll be here next weekend. So you can sell your 3.23 after I swap input flanges on it....

First thing I was gonna ask was about the flange...

fyeah.jpg

Edit: just bought some Manzos... we'll see how they do. Hopefully in by end of the week.

[Reprisal]

Gonna be a slow week with me having to wait on headers, but it gives me more time to regroup in prep for the wiring...

Managed to get the extraneous connections from the SMG/O2 harness eliminated. I'll take some time tomorrow and tie up any loose ends.

Long term, I'm beginning to consider what is required to get cruise control up and running... it seems a few have managed to implement it, but there isn't much going around on the forums as to how. After looking at the 01 MZ3 wiring guide, I'm finding these connections of particular importance...

DME X60004
pin 22 - DSC Speed Signal
Question being if this is in any way compatible/comparable to the Speed Signal out from the cluster in my E36.
pin 24 (and 34) - Brake Pedal Switch
Should be as simple as getting the brake signal to those pins (and jumpering)
pin 27 - Cruise Control Input (MFL signal)
pin 35 - Cruise Control Ground
I'm assuming (with proper coding) these pins line up directly with the CCM that BMW offered as a retrofit unit for the Z3 models. Only difficulty is that most resources show this as nearly plug-and-play, I'll need to determine the three pins opposite the stalk input to route the signal/power/ground...

X60002
pin 20 - Clutch (or Gear Recognition) switch:
Looking over the '01 MZ3 troubleshooting diagram it seems the pedal switch is used to signal clutch engagement to the DME. Based on what Hakentt has said in his pinout description, on E46 M3s pin 20 is fed by the Gear Switch at the rear of the transmission. I may need to add the Gear Switch back in (it interfaces with the SMG unit and was thus deleted on my harness), or try and retrofit the three-pin clutch switch.

I've probably scoured google and forum search 10-20 times trying to find some definitive answers on implementing cruise for this swap... does anyone have concrete information on it?

[kevinwilly]

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10250

That thread is the starting point. Then click on the link in it and read through from the very beginning.

I've done the research... I think that MOST of the required wiring is already run with Andrew's kit. I think there's only two or three wires that need to be run in addition. Let me look through my notes when I get home. Also, member gpeterson has almost certainly gotten his up and going, I'm sure.



Also, here's some info from doing it in an e28 http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=541570

It's mostly the same info.

[Reprisal]

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10250

That thread is the starting point. Then click on the link in it and read through from the very beginning.

I've done the research... I think that MOST of the required wiring is already run with Andrew's kit. I think there's only two or three wires that need to be run in addition. Let me look through my notes when I get home. Also, member gpeterson has almost certainly gotten his up and going, I'm sure.

Also, here's some info from doing it in an e28 http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=541570

It's mostly the same info.

I've unearthed those over the past few weeks. They're good resources in the sense that people are showing it's possible, but I wish they were more specific in their instructions.

Looking back through it, this post helped immensely...

For the smaller connector :
Pin 1 -> X60004 Pin 35 (DME)
Pin 2 -> X60004 Pin 27 (DME)
Pin 3 -> +12v (Fusebox)

I'll check and see if the pins on the connector are labeled.

Then you need to wire up the brake light switch, clutch switch, and speed signal. I know the guy above said wiring up +12v to his brake light switch fried his DME, but apparently that's how it's done in the S54 Z3M

I'm not sure how someone fried their DME, but this comment raises another question. Both the E36 M3 and the MZ3 use a DPST switch on the brake pedal in a primary and secondary (verification) setup, albeit in different ways:
1- On the E36 M3, the OBC uses the second switch (pins 3,4) to sense ground upon brake input. It checks that against the hot signal from the primary switch (pins 1,2) when the brake is depressed.
2- On the MZ3, the secondary mimics the primary, as the DME looks for a high signal to verify the (also hot) primary. The only difference between the two is that the secondary switch receives no power in accessory mode.

Since I want to keep the OBC largely intact, I'm entertaining the idea of joining pins 24 and 34 on the DME and sending them the high/low of pin 2 on the brake switch.

1) Set cfg_s.baureihe (0x6) and cfg_m.baureihe (0x4006/8006) to "08" (sets the DME to E36 mode)
2) Set K_FGR_CONFIG (address varies based on program version) to "0" (tells the DME that there's a cruise stalk instead of buttons)
3) Set K_SKRAFTS_CONTROL (0x4028 in MSS54, and 0x802A in MSS54HP) to "2" (tells DME clutch switch is wired directly to the DME instead of in series with the "gear position" sensor in the transmission)
4) You may have to alter the speed signal (K_V_WEGIMUPLSZAHL) and gear detection (K_GANG_GRENZE_#_# and K_S_GANG#_NV_MIN/MAX) depending on where you pull the speed signal from, what diff ratio you're running, and what tire seizes you're running.

I knew about putting it in E36 mode (and asked Garry to do that for me when he coded the DME), but I'll have to verify what the status of 2, 3 and 4 are. 3 generally lets me know that either the clutch switch or the gear position sensor can be used.

So at this point, the speed signal becomes the big question mark. I saw that bimmerman used his MK60 to drive into x60004-pin 20 on the DME (makes sense - that's what it's for), but it still doesn't answer the question as to the viability of using the speed signal from the cluster for the DME. I think Garry has even updated to MK60 at this point.

[Bimmerman535i]

I have cruise working, and I used the MZ3 module.

You need the brake switch and test switch to function as in an E46, you need a functioning 3 position clutch switch (IIRC I used an E46 or Z3M switch), and you probably need the conditioned vehicle speed signal from the DSC (or a good simulation of it).

From there, the module is three wires. Power, Ground, and multifunction signal to one of the DME pins that I don't recall offhand.

Don't take that as gospel, but that's my memory of what all we needed to get cruise to function. None of the wires that I recall were in Andrew's harness.



Here's my block diagram for wiring the swap, might be of use. More details are in my thread, link in sig.

[Reprisal]

You need the brake switch and test switch to function as in an E46, you need a functioning 3 position clutch switch (IIRC I used an E46 or Z3M switch), and you probably need the conditioned vehicle speed signal from the DSC (or a good simulation of it).

Good stuff. Without DSC on my 95 though, I'll still need to find out if the cluster puts out a DME compliant speed signal. Looks like I'll be breaking out my scope before this is over.

I know Andrew markets his harness as pretty much standalone (that's understood and he's really good to deal with). How easy is it to add pins to the DME connectors? And where is a good place to source the pins? (I could cannibalize the E46 main engine harness if needed since I bought the Z3M one.)

Thanks for sharing; I'll look back through your build thread and see what gems I can dig up.

[kevinwilly]

I've got a bunch of extra pins for the DME connector. I just went to a junkyard and cut off some pigtails from the chassis harness on an e46 with an M54. It's REALLY easy to add them into the harness. The connectors have one little tab that holds the block in. Slide that out, and then the wire just slides into the block and clicks into place.

Sorry I haven't been more help- I've been running around like mad doing grunt work for my wife's dissertation....

[Bimmerman535i]

Good stuff. Without DSC on my 95 though, I'll still need to find out if the cluster puts out a DME compliant speed signal. Looks like I'll be breaking out my scope before this is over.

I know Andrew markets his harness as pretty much standalone (that's understood and he's really good to deal with). How easy is it to add pins to the DME connectors? And where is a good place to source the pins? (I could cannibalize the E46 main engine harness if needed since I bought the Z3M one.)

Thanks for sharing; I'll look back through your build thread and see what gems I can dig up.

His harness absolutely is standalone as far as getting the motor to run in the chassis. At the time I bought it, it did not have provisions for more of the nice-to-have items (cruise, AC, CAN, fan, DSC etc).

It is actually very easy to add pins. There is a pre-assembled pin + ~6" wire part number that ends in 197 (google, cause I forget the first part of the PN), and there is a corresponding one for the X20 connector. These are a couple bucks each on ECS tuning, and likely a smidge cheaper at bmw parts store or Tischer.

Without swapping DSC (don't do it, it's a huge PITA) I'd look at whether the conditioned wheel speed signal from the stock ABS computer will suffice. I'm pretty sure the clutch switch and brake switches I wired directly to the DME....I can check it on Weds when I'm back at the shop and have my wiring pinout guide in front of me.

[Reprisal]

Ok, spent a few hours on the car this afternoon. Andrew already has the speed signal from my cluster routed from pin (14?) on the X20 connector to pin 22 (x60004) on the DME, so I think that answers my previous question.

I've got a bunch of extra pins for the DME connector. I just went to a junkyard and cut off some pigtails from the chassis harness on an e46 with an M54. It's REALLY easy to add them into the harness. The connectors have one little tab that holds the block in. Slide that out, and then the wire just slides into the block and clicks into place.

Sorry I haven't been more help- I've been running around like mad doing grunt work for my wife's dissertation....

No worries about the pins. I scavenged a few from the E46 main harness that came with my engine. Everything labeled for easy hookup once it goes in the car.
20170418_140040.jpg

dissertation... oh man... now I feel reallly bad about waking her up the other day when I dropped off that diff.

Ended up splicing in the Z3 Cruise Module. My E36 uses an 8-pin (2x4) connector, whereas the Z3 module is a 6 pin (1x6). So I cut and capped the wires, and spliced it in. The color coding matches up almost exactly, except for the set/accelerate pin (which is straight blue on the Z3M module, and Blue/Green on the M3). Behind you can see the gas pedal now sitting in place... I'll slide it all the way over once I get the engine in the car and the pedal plug hooked up.

20170418_153201.jpg

[Reprisal]

Will be waiting on the headers until Monday it seems. Spent some time working on the gauges for the dash... was initially giving me a fit since the supplied connectors on the analog ones were labelled wrong.

20170420_213224.jpg

Switch controls the illumination, dimming the brightness of the sport button LED and A/F Gauge and turns the bulbs on the water/oil gauges on/off. Sport button will get placed in front of the LED

Looking at the DME pin-out people have provided for the sport switch LED, it seems active low?

16. Sport button switch LED light; mss54 sends ground signal

[Reprisal]

Managed to get the gauges set in place and routed wires through the firewall for the throttle pedal, OBD II connector, clutch switch, sport button/LED, cruise and AF gauge.

20170421_183157.jpg

I was going to have to cut/unplug a number of the things on Andrews harness to feed stuff through; key thing here is to take your time (IE: labeling everything). Gonna try to stuff the LC-1 in the DME box along with the rest of the relays/fuses/CAN Controller.

Still have a few connections to clean up under the dash. Not gonna lie, I don't mind electrical, but looking at it all at once can be daunting.

20170421_183247.jpg

[TH3 Shifty]

I thought Andrews harness was plug and play?

[Reprisal]

I thought Andrews harness was plug and play?

It is, but you've still got to route a few large connectors through the firewall. Since the engine isn't in the car yet (due to the headers) and I'm adding connections for cruise and whatnot, I felt it best to simply take those items off the harness and work on prepping the interior. Since I had the time, it seemed easier to go this route.

Trying to wedge large connectors and wiring (like the OBD port and throttle pedal connector) through the firewall after the engine goes in sounds a lot less fun. Realistically I only had to clip the harness in four places... the rest of the wires will snap back into the X60004 connector.

[kevinwilly]

The throttle connector and sport switch I was able to get through the original throttle cable hole in the firewall by depinning them and sneaking them through. I already had an OBD port, though. It'd be tough if I didn't....

[Bimmerman535i]

It is, but you've still got to route a few large connectors through the firewall. Since the engine isn't in the car yet (due to the headers) and I'm adding connections for cruise and whatnot, I felt it best to simply take those items off the harness and work on prepping the interior. Since I had the time, it seemed easier to go this route.

Trying to wedge large connectors and wiring (like the OBD port and throttle pedal connector) through the firewall after the engine goes in sounds a lot less fun. Realistically I only had to clip the harness in four places... the rest of the wires will snap back into the X60004 connector.

Suggestion: instead of route all of Andrew's harness through the driver's side firewall, go through the passenger side for the OBD2 and other interior connectors. You can make a slight cut in the passenger firewall grommet and feed the OBD plug in with some silicone grease and swear words, and you won't have to cut or depin anything. Then just snake it under the dash (don't need to remove) and it'll reach.

This way, engine in/out doesn't matter.

EDIT: looks like you're ahead of me, but leaving the above unedited for the next person.

For the Z3 cruise module, my car had the 6 pin and not the 8 pin. What production month is your 95? Mine's a 9 / 95, and a lot of little things changed on the 95s that month that make them more similar to the OBD2 cars.

[Reprisal]

Spent a good bit of the afternoon tiding up more of the wiring under the dash. Pretty much the only things left to do are splice in the clutch and brake switches, and re-purpose the SMG relay to provide a source of switched 12v for the gauges and LC-1 (I know I can piggy-back off of another source under the dash, but I'd rather keep as much of the new wiring isolated).

New headers arrived today. Looks like the shorter one has much better placement of the O2 and EGT bungs. Not certain about the other one until it's in the car.

Suggestion: instead of route all of Andrew's harness through the driver's side firewall, go through the passenger side for the OBD2 and other interior connectors. You can make a slight cut in the passenger firewall grommet and feed the OBD plug in with some silicone grease and swear words, and you won't have to cut or depin anything. Then just snake it under the dash (don't need to remove) and it'll reach.

This way, engine in/out doesn't matter.

EDIT: looks like you're ahead of me, but leaving the above unedited for the next person.

For the Z3 cruise module, my car had the 6 pin and not the 8 pin. What production month is your 95? Mine's a 9 / 95, and a lot of little things changed on the 95s that month that make them more similar to the OBD2 cars.

Nearly certain mine is production of 10/94.

[TH3 Shifty]

get your manzo headers yet? or did you get another brand?

[Reprisal]

get your manzo headers yet? or did you get another brand?

Haven't had many updates since I went to a music festival this past weekend.

The new headers came in late last week. They're better, but still not great. It seems like I gained 1/4 of an inch in spots where I really needed 1/2 or more. The O2 sensors went in with the engine this time, but they still rest against the frame rail.

We're debating on shimming the passenger side mount up just a slight bit. regardless, I'll be taking the first set to an exhaust shop today to see about re-positioning some of the bungs.

Other stuff that was done:
- The SMG relay is in place to drive the gauges and innovate LC-1
- Put down some Avus in the engine bay. It's not perfect, but it looks good enough for me.

[TH3 Shifty]

So the issue is the bungs and not the primary tubes?