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Thread: How can I verify proper timing on M62tu? P1519 after timing guide replacement.

  1. #1
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    How can I verify proper timing on M62tu? P1519 after timing guide replacement.

    I need a little help guys. After a little research it's still unclear to me exactly what p1519 could mean. Some posts indicate it's just a bad sensor. Others indicate that the car may be out of time, and I feel like it could be the latter. Is there anyway to check the timing without the timing tools? I think mine are cheap and not built to spec, not sure if I can trust them. I feel that the cams may be slightly out of time in relation to the crank, and I think the cam trigger wheels may be out of time as well. Here's the story, I'll try to keep it as short as possible.

    I have a 2000 740il, bought with 175k on the clock. Timing guides went out at 185k. The car sat for about a year or so before I could get the project. I purchased the ECS tuning timing chain guide kit and bought a cheap timing tool set on ebay.

    When I put the cam holding blocks into place, the fitment was very poor. Anyway, I was able to carefully file to make them have a nice fit on the cams. This is concern one for the timing. If they are poorly manufactured I feel like they may not have locked the cams in the correct position.

    The second concern is during reassembly and installation of the cam trigger wheels. On 5-8 bank the trigger wheel timing tool fit as expected. However on bank 1-4, the tool was not built to spec or something and there was no way to align the pin on the tool with the hole on the trigger wheel with the tool bolted in place. So I aligned it as close to where I thought it should be and put everything back together.

    I turned the engine over by hand to verify that no valves were contacting the piston. It was also making compression while I was turning it over by hand, so I felt pretty confident everything was in the right spot.

    Engine fired up after a few cranks. Idled rough for a few secs, then smoothed out. After running the engine for a bit p1519 and p1429 showed up. Had a lifter tick that seemed to go away also, and the VANOs sounds like it's rattling on startup, which it did not do before the repair. It seems to rev up freely, except for the VANOs deal (which clears up after 30 sec or so) and the valve train seems a little louder then before the repair also.

    I cleared both codes, p1429 has not returned, but p1519 came back after a little drive around the block.

    tl;dr

    Is there a method to verify proper timing of the cams and the cam trigger wheels? I have a timing tool set, but I don't trust it. Help me get her back on the road!

  2. #2
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    Here's a good, close look at the procedure. https://youtu.be/D2KTwMmK8-o


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Matthew M.
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    1997 840Ci | 2001 740iL | 1985 308GTSi Quattrovalvole

  3. #3
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    There are inspection holes on the upper timing covers. They may be more accurate to use than the timing tools.

    However, it sounds like the code is just for the VANOS solenoid? Have you tried swapping the solenoids to see if the code follows?
    See my E38 parts for sale on eBay: click here!
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by psjr View Post
    There are inspection holes on the upper timing covers. They may be more accurate to use than the timing tools.

    However, it sounds like the code is just for the VANOS solenoid? Have you tried swapping the solenoids to see if the code follows?
    I got myself so worked up that the timing was off that I haven't even tried anything. Lol, suppose I ought to try the easy things first. I'll check out that inspection hole also, I assume your talking about the Torx bolt that is holding nothing in place?

  5. #5
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    Yes to the question on the inspection holes. A drill bit inserted through the inspection holes should line up with the holes on the trigger wheels when you are at TDC.

    2001 740i Sport - Anthracite Metallic, Gray Interior, 750 Porn Lights, 750 Seat Backs, Hoen Xenon-match Fogs, Crossed drilled, slotted rotors, LED Interior Swap.

  6. #6
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    you have an issue with 1 of your Vanos Solenoid valves... Replace both of them at same time..Code should be gone

    - - - Updated - - -

    off timing codes are p0011 or p0021..over advance or over retard...Your code P1519 is Vanos intake fault valve... Also check you OIL TEMP Sensor....Could be bad or wiring
    2000 740i Sport

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cazal740i View Post
    you have an issue with 1 of your Vanos Solenoid valves... Replace both of them at same time..Code should be gone

    - - - Updated - - -

    off timing codes are p0011 or p0021..over advance or over retard...Your code P1519 is Vanos intake fault valve... Also check you OIL TEMP Sensor....Could be bad or wiring
    I'll definitely try that before screwing with the timing again. Driver vanos would make sense....since I dropped it flat on my concrete floor.....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by KinkedChrome View Post
    I'll definitely try that before screwing with the timing again. Driver vanos would make sense....since I dropped it flat on my concrete floor.....
    What i meant is the Vanos solenoid not the vanos transmission. Theres also a check valve that goes bad and gets stuck. This causes the clicking sound we all get with m62tu engines. Ppl replace the Vanos seals and still have the noise. The check valves are behind the Solenoids. Im sure your timing is correct just those parts mentioned
    Here is a link to give u a better perspective

    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/720836/

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cazal740i View Post
    What i meant is the Vanos solenoid not the vanos transmission. Theres also a check valve that goes bad and gets stuck. This causes the clicking sound we all get with m62tu engines. Ppl replace the Vanos seals and still have the noise. The check valves are behind the Solenoids. Im sure your timing is correct just those parts mentioned
    Here is a link to give u a better perspective.
    d.com/forums/posts/720836/

    Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
    Yeah, I said Vanos also, and I also meant the solenoid. My actual vanos assembly made it through the project unscathed. I did already replace those check valves when I did the guides, but I'll pull them out when I take the solenoids out to see if they are clogged up or anything.

    Hopefully I can get to it tonight. I am so excited to get this thing back on the road. I also installed new kidney grills, front license delete, front emblem, and fixed the side skirts. I'll post some pics when I get all this sorted out.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KinkedChrome View Post
    Yeah, I said Vanos also, and I also meant the solenoid. My actual vanos assembly made it through the project unscathed. I did already replace those check valves when I did the guides, but I'll pull them out when I take the solenoids out to see if they are clogged up or anything.

    Hopefully I can get to it tonight. I am so excited to get this thing back on the road. I also installed new kidney grills, front license delete, front emblem, and fixed the side skirts. I'll post some pics when I get all this sorted out.
    Facebook" E38 Empire" group member made a small video of a bad check valve. He shook the good and bad 1 and u can hear the difference..
    2000 740i Sport

  11. #11
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    Well, pulled the vanos solenoids and found the problem.
    20170405_222746.jpg

    Pass side vanos is broken and part of it is still stuck in the head. I guess it all has to come apart again.....

  12. #12
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    Well good thing you were able to figure out the problem!
    Current: 2007 Z4 M Coupe (blue/black)
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  13. #13
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    You may be able to grasp the broken nosepiece of the solenoid with a pick or similar tool, extract it and replace with a known good solenoid.
    Pull the VC's, check the timing, whooaa...
    Bob's your Aunt....

  14. #14
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    Agreed you should be able to use a pick or needle nose pliers to grab the piece still in the head without removing any covers. Then you can replace the solenoid and check the codes again. I highly doubt you need to pull the valve covers and re-time the engine.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KinkedChrome View Post
    Well, pulled the vanos solenoids and found the problem.
    20170405_222746.jpg

    Pass side vanos is broken and part of it is still stuck in the head. I guess it all has to come apart again.....
    yay I was right...I stayed at a Holiday inn once
    2000 740i Sport

  16. #16
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    And the saga continues. I was able to remove the rest of the solenoid that the stuck in the head. It appears that one of the camshaft seal rings broke and got stuck down in there. Not sure how that happened. I must have busted them up somehow when I reinstalled the oil distribution block. Hers's a pic of the carnage. Part of me wants to just slap a new solenoid in and see what happens, I mean I was driving it around a little bit like that. So any damage that could be done is probably already done.

    20170408_132458.jpg

  17. #17
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    I have the pre-VANOS engine but the M50 in my e34 is VANOS. From what I know of the system, if VANOS is not functioning properly, acceleration will be slow until the engine hits a certain rpm that matches a non-VANOS requirement, and then takes off. That's how my M50 worked, sluggish until 3,000 rpm then all go. Since the M62 is double VANOS, you will have one side wanting to go and the other side not, which may work well if you drive calmly, but any acceleration will be a problem. My assumption is you can use the car temporarily by just popping in a new solenoid, but you'll have to do the correct repairs eventually. The damage may cause the new solenoid to scrape and get damaged and may get stuck again.

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kouks View Post
    I have the pre-VANOS engine but the M50 in my e34 is VANOS. From what I know of the system, if VANOS is not functioning properly, acceleration will be slow until the engine hits a certain rpm that matches a non-VANOS requirement, and then takes off. That's how my M50 worked, sluggish until 3,000 rpm then all go. Since the M62 is double VANOS, you will have one side wanting to go and the other side not, which may work well if you drive calmly, but any acceleration will be a problem. My assumption is you can use the car temporarily by just popping in a new solenoid, but you'll have to do the correct repairs eventually. The damage may cause the new solenoid to scrape and get damaged and may get stuck again.
    yeah, I guess the real question is how many of those seals does it need to work. In either case, it'll come apart for inspection and repair, I think I just wish it was as easy as replacing the solenoid.....

  19. #19
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    Tore into the car tonight. Intake cam and oil distribution block is ruined. Only thing that I can think happened is that i must have carelessly installed that oil distribution block and busted everything up. Glad i picked up that parts car, ill be robbing lots of parts off it.

    20170414_232915.jpg

  20. #20
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    Well, I finally got everything put back together. I replaced the cam seals with new seals and took the cam, oil block, and solenoid from my parts car and put them in. I also rebuilt both VANOS units with the Beisan Systems seal and press kit. Started up fine, but still has the p1519 code. It came up as a pending code, then when I shut the car off and turned it back on, it came on as a full code. I pulled the solenoid out again, no debris this time. So at this point I have no idea what it could be. I suppose the actual solenoid put in could be bad or perhaps I didn't get the VANOS in the fully retarded position or let the timing slip when I timed it. I'm inclined to think its the timing because when I blip the throttle to wide open it stutters a bit before it will want to rev up. The other issue that I learned about after I had it all put back together is that the oil blocks get all scored up from the seals on the cam. Both blocks had grooves in them from the scoring, but I thought they were just suppose to be like that so I put them back in. I don't think that's the issue because I'm only get the code on one bank. Also here is a pic of my cheap timing tools that don't line up with the cam trigger wheel correctly, it should be noted Im getting the error on the bank where the pin appears to line up correctly. I think my next course of action is to get rid of this timing kit and get the german auto solutions kit and make sure the timing is right on.

    20170420_211142.jpg

  21. #21
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    You can rent a timing kit from a BMW outfir online. Google BMW Tool Rental and they will pop up. Real cheap if you return within 30 days, otherwise, you buy it.

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

  22. #22
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    My friend`s 2001 740 was timed to "T" and the code kept appearing...Read where you simply retard Bank 1 timing wheel a couple degrees and the code goes away...Exactly what we did....
    2000 740i Sport

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kouks View Post
    You can rent a timing kit from a BMW outfir online. Google BMW Tool Rental and they will pop up. Real cheap if you return within 30 days, otherwise, you buy it.
    Ok, I'll check them out. I may just buy another better kit though since I feel like I may be into E38's for the long haul.


    Quote Originally Posted by cazal740i View Post
    My friend`s 2001 740 was timed to "T" and the code kept appearing...Read where you simply retard Bank 1 timing wheel a couple degrees and the code goes away...Exactly what we did....
    That is exactly what I ended up doing last night. I pulled the valve cover and moved the timing wheel about ten degrees clockwise and the code went away. After tons of research on the bimmer forums, it turns out that for early VANOs M62's, the p1519 has more to do with timing and less to do with the VANOs solenoid. It seems that in later years the code turned into p0011. A lot of this is more well documented in the e39 forums with the 540i's. User rf900rkw seems to be very knowledgeable on the subject and has tons of posts about both p1519 and p0011. According to him, these codes only come up if the computer thinks all the sensors are fine and that replacing sensors/parts hardly ever solves the issue and that in nearly every case it's a timing issue.

    Even thought the car seems to run and idle well, there is a little part of me that is still concerned the timing may not be exact, despite the fact that the computer thinks it is. Moving the Bank 1 trigger wheel did rid it of the code, but it seems like it's cheating. I still my get a better set of timing tools and retime the whole thing again, it's been apart a hundred times already, may as well do it again.

  24. #24
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    right on but I wouldn't mess with it anymore...Shes timed...lol
    2000 740i Sport

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cazal740i View Post
    right on but I wouldn't mess with it anymore...Shes timed...lol
    Haha for real, I should just quick messing with it. No codes, runs fine. Vanos still seem to be making noise, or I have some type of intermittent noise. Although, re timing it probably would not resolve that issue.

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