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Thread: 2001 B10 V8, most times I turn ignition I get single click & starter does not engage

  1. #26
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    On one of my E39s when the Ign key failed, the radio only displayed 1/2 of its information and the dash cluster would not cycle through settings. Hazard lights and dash lights were one but no flashing at the front or rear lenses. REAL weird stuff.
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  2. #27
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    Yeah, the Ignition Switch failures can produce some really weird symptoms, the only ones I've had have been the click no crank no start and also the iffy charging or voltage dropping, but that could have had other possible causes. Funnily enough, even though the connectors on my battery terminals were extremely tight, after tightening them up as much as physically possible so they cannot move whatsoever, I haven't had any click no crank no start incidents. I did 10 starts in a row and it started perfectly each time. It seems to have changed pattern and I will keep my eye on it. However, my money is on there being some minor corrosion on the inside of the battery connectors which wasn't visible. There's been no battery leakage at the posts and no visible rust from when I've connected up the battery various times. It would explain why the battery hasn't charged well with battery charger or alternator, and why the same problems occurred no matter who reconnected the battery (myself, battery installer from supplier etc.) After having really tightened them up, I did a test with the multimeter to look for a voltage drop from the battery post to the end of the connector, and I was getting 0.000A on both sides, however vibration and such could change that. Whilst changing the ignition antenna ring may have helped to fix part of the problem (I don't know), it seems the next logical step is to remove the battery and really clean the connectors up with baking soda or acid and scrub them down. I will post an update after that. Thanks again for all the input.

  3. #28
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    Speaking of loose negative battery cable, if that isn't the issue it could still be oxidation on the terminals that run power throughout the engine compartment. With this issue on an E60 M5, I had to pull the power cable that ran from the front of the engine to the back along the "valley" and clean every connection at both ends (the back end connected to the starter). This got rid of the no crank / no start - single click issue.

    There was very little oxidation - but just enough in every connection to drop the amps to where the starter motor couldn't turn - even though the solenoid (click) could move the gear wheel when the ignition was pressed.

    I'll also note that my research showed that this could happen if there are issues with the grounding cables as well.
    gmak: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. A journey with my new-to-me 2000 540i

    "Working on a BMW E39 is the best way to run out of time."

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmak View Post
    Speaking of loose negative battery cable, if that isn't the issue it could still be oxidation on the terminals that run power throughout the engine compartment. With this issue on an E60 M5, I had to pull the power cable that ran from the front of the engine to the back along the "valley" and clean every connection at both ends (the back end connected to the starter). This got rid of the no crank / no start - single click issue.

    There was very little oxidation - but just enough in every connection to drop the amps to where the starter motor couldn't turn - even though the solenoid (click) could move the gear wheel when the ignition was pressed.

    I'll also note that my research showed that this could happen if there are issues with the grounding cables as well.
    That is a great piece of information. Did you remove the starter motor to do this? Were your connectors visibly corroded? Did you bother doing a voltage drop test?

    I'm not sure it is the main problem in my case as tightening up the battery connectors seems to so far have cured the click no crank issue, but I don't know that it isn't a contributary factor, so I am definitely going to have a look at them and check for voltage drops. Cheers.

  5. #30
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    I didn't remove the starter motor. I just removed the big red battery cable that ran from a terminal at the front of the engine to a terminal at the back of the engine. The terminal at the back of the engine had another cable that ran down to the starter motor. The connectors were NOT VISIBLY corroded. Oxidation can be hard to see - but even a thin film can cause higher resistance and amperage drop.

    What I did was:

    1. Disconnect the battery in the car.
    2. Use a small jumper cable with clips to put 12V to the starter "ignition" plug - where the signal comes when you start the car. I didn't clip it to a 12V source right away.
    3. I ran the -tive post of another battery to the negative jumper post in the engine.
    4. I used regular jumper cable and put one end on the cable running down to the starter, I put the small jumper together with the other end of this regular jumper cable and touched it to the +tive post of the spare battery. The engine turned which told me that the starter was good.
    5. I just worked back from there terminal by terminal on the whole circuit taking power down to the starter until I found the one where the starter didn't turn.
    6. I took out that entire section of power cable, cleaned both ends with 400 grit sand paper, cleaned the ends of all wires that led to or from each end of that cable, and put it all back together. I re-did the tests from 2 - 5 and made sure that the motor turned with power applied at every terminal back to the jumper terminal.

    That was it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I didn't remove the starter motor. I just removed the big red battery cable that ran from a terminal at the front of the engine to a terminal at the back of the engine. The terminal at the back of the engine had another cable that ran down to the starter motor. The connectors were NOT VISIBLY corroded. Oxidation can be hard to see - but even a thin film can cause higher resistance and amperage drop.

    What I did was:

    0. Make sure that power is getting to the jumper terminal in the engine compartment, so that you know it isn't an issue with power cables under the car.
    1. Disconnect the battery in the car.
    2. Use a small jumper cable with clips to put 12V to the starter "ignition" plug - where the signal comes when you start the car. I didn't clip it to a 12V source right away.
    3. I ran the -tive post of another battery to the negative jumper post in the engine.
    4. I used regular jumper cable and put one end on the cable running down to the starter, I put the small jumper together with the other end of this regular jumper cable and touched it to the +tive post of the spare battery. The engine turned which told me that the starter was good.
    5. I just worked back from there terminal by terminal on the whole circuit taking power down to the starter until I found the one where the starter didn't turn.
    6. I took out that entire section of power cable, cleaned both ends with 400 grit sand paper, cleaned the ends of all wires that led to or from each end of that cable, and put it all back together. I re-did the tests from 2 - 5 and made sure that the motor turned with power applied at every terminal back to the jumper terminal.

    That was it.

    Note that the issue could be due to problems with the ground cable(s). I also checked that every ground was working - the jumper one and the one to the motor mount. If my cable cleaning wouldn't have worked, I would have put the car up and gone looking for other grounds.
    gmak: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. A journey with my new-to-me 2000 540i

    "Working on a BMW E39 is the best way to run out of time."

  6. #31
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    Test don't Guess

    Here is the method to actually read the voltage drop in between points along a circuit like a starter, battery cable etc.
    Voltage Drop Testing

    Voltage drop is the amount of voltage lost as it passes through a component or resistance in a circuit. In order to perform a voltage drop test, voltage must be present in a circuit. It’s the difference between voltage at the source or battery and the voltage at the component. The meters leads are connected in parallel with the circuit being tested.
    It’s common to perform a voltage drop test on the starter circuit. This is because a voltage drop test is the best way to find resistance in a high current circuit. Test the positive battery cable, negative battery cables, and the starter solenoid. Check these readings against manufacturer’s specifications. Typically the standard for this cable is no more than 0.5 or 1.0 volt depending on the vehicle. Some inexpensive replacement battery cables may have a thicker insulation and less conductor than the original cables.
    http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm
    Last edited by StephenVA; 05-08-2017 at 10:02 PM.
    Current Garage Highlights
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    1973 Pantera L
    1971 Dodge Dart Swinger "Lite Package"
    1970 Dodge Challenger T/A 340 Six Pack Alpine White
    1970 Dodge Challenger T/A 340 Six Pack GoManGo Green
    1969 Road Runner 383
    1968 Barracuda Formula S 340 Sea Foam Green

  7. #32
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    Thanks for the very informative posts guys.

    I did a set of voltage drop tests on the alternator to make sure it was providing enough power to charge the battery, and got 0.000V each time. As tightening the heck out of the battery connectors seems to have resolved the problem for now (no click/no crank/no start for 20-30 starts), it seems logical to clean up these connectors first and to wait for the issue to reoccur before moving onto a comprehensive test of the electrical connectors in the battery/alternator/starter circuits. I did test the battery connections for a voltage drop and got nothing, and tried loosening up the connectors to how they were before and still got nothing, so it is possible the connection issue was intermittent before.

    A question for gmak. When you cleaned up your power cables with 400 grade sandpaper, did you use any kind of liquid to remove rust (like baking soda or phosphoric acid), and also did you wipe down the sanded areas afterwards with a microfibre cloth or similar to get rid of particulates? I've seen a few tutorials on using wire brushes, baking soda, sanding, water spraying afterwards etc. but this is for battery terminals literally caked in corrosion. Cheers.
    Last edited by PliSsK; 05-12-2017 at 01:40 PM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PliSsK View Post
    Thanks for the very informative posts guys.

    I did a set of voltage drop tests on the alternator to make sure it was providing enough power to charge the battery, and got 0.000V each time. As tightening the heck out of the battery connectors seems to have resolved the problem for now (no click/no crank/no start for 20-30 starts), it seems logical to clean up these connectors first and to wait for the issue to reoccur before moving onto a comprehensive test of the electrical connectors in the battery/alternator/starter circuits. I did test the battery connections for a voltage drop and got nothing, and tried loosening up the connectors to how they were before and still got nothing, so it is possible the connection issue was intermittent before.

    A question for gmak. When you cleaned up your power cables with 400 grade sandpaper, did you use any kind of liquid to remove rust (like baking soda or phosphoric acid), and also did you wipe down the sanded areas afterwards with a microfibre cloth or similar to get rid of particulates? I've seen a few tutorials on using wire brushes, baking soda, sanding, water spraying afterwards etc. but this is for battery terminals literally caked in corrosion. Cheers.
    I didn't have rust per se - my oxidation was dullness and grey. I just used the gentle sandpaper until the metal was shiny. Battery terminals should be handled differently than what I did on the cable terminals.
    gmak: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. A journey with my new-to-me 2000 540i

    "Working on a BMW E39 is the best way to run out of time."

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmak View Post
    I didn't have rust per se - my oxidation was dullness and grey. I just used the gentle sandpaper until the metal was shiny. Battery terminals should be handled differently than what I did on the cable terminals.
    Thanks for the info. The battery is only a month old so those terminals should be pristine hopefully.

  10. #35
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    I sanded down the battery end of the cable connectors as well as the earth end of the negative cable. I gave the flat part of the earth on the chassis a quick sanding although it was already quite shiny to start with. What I didn't do this time was to sand down the other end of the positive cable, inside the plastic box, nor did I unscrew the 2nd screw on the positive cable (far left in the image below - not mine). The outside of this latter screw looked a bit corroded.

    Gmak, did you sand down all these other parts as well?

    Having tightened them all up as much as possible, it feels as least as good as it was before when I tightened the heck out of them, probably better. Not experienced the click no start for a month now, although I'm not driving the car that much at the moment because of an unrelated engine fault until it gets fixed.


  11. #36
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    No. My battery cables and posts were fine.

    I only removed oxidation on cables in the engine compartment. On my car, the battery main cable terminates at a boost terminal in the engine compartment. We all have these, right? From there, it branches off with one cable going to the front of the wiring harness that runs down the middle of the engine (V10). This terminal at the front of the wiring harness has a couple of cables leading off from it - always a good source for oxidation especially if a previous mechanic didn't fully tighten the nut. I cleaned everything at this terminal.

    From this point, there is a power cable that runs in the plastic wiring harness container to the back of the engine and has another terminal there at the back of the wiring harness housing. This terminal is used to supply power down to the starter motor. I cleaned every contact point, eyelet wire, and flat at that terminal as well.

    There was only some oxidation, but the multiple contacts and terminals led to an amperage drop that meant that even though the starter solenoid fired (click), there wasn't enough power to turn the starter motor.

    Here is a thread of what I did. the whole sad story of trying to get help on a board with low activity on a holiday weekend.
    gmak: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. A journey with my new-to-me 2000 540i

    "Working on a BMW E39 is the best way to run out of time."

  12. #37
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    Thanks for the reply...lol please excuse me, I think I suffered from 'temporary' brain failure. Too much time had passed and I didn't review all the replies again.

    Thanks for the link. That will make for an interesting read. E60 M5, v.nice! Surprised you got hit with under bonnet corrosion issues so soon on that model. Fixing things on a public holiday weekend is great if you require no input from anyone .

    Edit: No repeat of 'click no crank no start' issue since sanding down the battery terminals and tightening them up extra tightly. Thanks for the input everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmak View Post
    No. My battery cables and posts were fine.

    I only removed oxidation on cables in the engine compartment. On my car, the battery main cable terminates at a boost terminal in the engine compartment. We all have these, right? From there, it branches off with one cable going to the front of the wiring harness that runs down the middle of the engine (V10). This terminal at the front of the wiring harness has a couple of cables leading off from it - always a good source for oxidation especially if a previous mechanic didn't fully tighten the nut. I cleaned everything at this terminal.

    From this point, there is a power cable that runs in the plastic wiring harness container to the back of the engine and has another terminal there at the back of the wiring harness housing. This terminal is used to supply power down to the starter motor. I cleaned every contact point, eyelet wire, and flat at that terminal as well.

    There was only some oxidation, but the multiple contacts and terminals led to an amperage drop that meant that even though the starter solenoid fired (click), there wasn't enough power to turn the starter motor.

    Here is a thread of what I did. the whole sad story of trying to get help on a board with low activity on a holiday weekend.
    Last edited by PliSsK; 06-11-2017 at 07:32 AM.

  13. #38
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    Since sanding down and tightening up the battery terminals, I've had no repeat of the click no crank issue until yesterday, when I turned the key quickly in the ignition and it didn't start. I don't know whether it clicked or not. I checked the sun visor mirror light and it was working. I turned the key back to pos 1 and tried again and it started. I assume that even though I turned the key quickly, it should not have done this?

  14. #39
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    Happens to me, I think its just a brain fart, we think we turned it all the way but didn't.... Like our E39's, we are not perfect.
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  15. #40
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  16. #41
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    Keep us posted.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Does that car have 'autostart'? Sometimes I remember the autostart brainfart (I no can haz autofart anymore).
    You mean auto stop/start? If so, no, that was only introduced on the E60 if I'm not mistaken.
    Last edited by PliSsK; 06-16-2017 at 11:10 AM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PliSsK View Post
    You mean auto stop/start? If so, no, that was only introduced on the E60 if I'm not mistaken.
    'Comfort Start' : Turn the key to the right once and the starter will do the rest.

    All Auto 540s should have it IIRC

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by XAlt View Post
    'Comfort Start' : Turn the key to the right once and the starter will do the rest.

    All Auto 540s should have it IIRC
    Nope, neither of the E39 540 or B10 ever had it. Maybe it is configured in the VO, as I would imagine the software is the same for US and Euro models. Will have a look with NCS Expert as it sounds interesting but I can test the starter without it. Everything functioning normally at present.

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