2001 B10 V8, most times I turn ignition I get single click & starter does not engage

[PliSsK]

When I turn the ignition on my 2001 E39 Alpina B10 V8 (similar to 540i Auto), nearly every time I get a single click noise from under the hood and then nothing. Occasionally when I turn the key, the starter motor does engage and start the engine, but right now it's maybe 1 time in 10 or 20. It has gotten steadily worse over the last month, although I can't say whether I there was the single click sound on each occasion it failed in the past. All the electrics in the car are functioning including Sat Nav, headlights etc. The battery has been charged yesterday and is 3.5 yrs old. Charging the battery didn't seem to make any difference to the frequency of the problematic ignition attempts. The Dashboard shows the battery voltage at 11.6V. Using a voltmeter on the battery whilst connected to the car with the ignition off shows 11.95V. There are no fault codes detected from my Peak Research tool. Background: The car does very little mileage and I fully charge it every 3 weeks with a CTEK charger. The car's battery has never lasted longer than 6-8 weeks without a charge, even when the battery was new, which I put down to a modest sized battery and having Sat Nav in the car. It is a Bosch HSB019 Silver battery (100AH). The car dash has never shown a high voltage even after charging a new battery so I take it as being pessimistic. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Update (2 May 2017): Overnight, the car was starting most times I turned the ignition. Changed the battery (existing battery had shown 12.3V. OBC dashboard diagnostics and my multimeter measuring the battery connected in parallel was showing lower voltage value than actual). Changed the ignition antenna ring. Still getting ignition failures around 30% of ignition attempts. Suspected excessive battery drainage issue since I got the car in 2013 may be related?

[XAlt]

You've pretty much confirmed it's the starter.

[JimLev]

Your below 12 volts, get a new battery too, yours is toast. It should be reading 12.5 volts or higher, anything lower is bad.
You must have some module that isn't shutting down.

[TxDarth]

I have had similar problems with my 2001 740 iSport. When it was about a year old this started - I took it to the dealer and they said OK there is a service bulletin covering this - they reflashed the DME and all was good 'till '06 when I allowed the battery to go completely dead while moving. The master key was in the ignition at the time. I replace the battery then as it checked bad, original at the time.

That original key never worked again unfortunately. The dealer tried to get the car to recognize the key but no go...they removed from the EWS list and replaced several times without success - they said they could not make it work and recommended that I replace the key which I did. Now for the last two years it has been doing this again for no apparent reason. It will always start but it may take 1-12 tries to actually do so. My car only has 32 K miles so I don't thing the starter is the problem. I will say that the Valet key will always start the car better than the Masters. why I don't know but that would eliminate your key battery idea - no battery in the Valet key. I had one other member say that he replaced the ignition ring antenna ($ 11.00 item and 30 minutes to install) this reads the chip and charges the key battery. He said his car was now better. I replaced mine last week and so far it's good...... we will see how long this works.

Oh - I now have an aftermarket tune so I do not want to reflash the DME and loose that tune.

[PliSsK]

Your below 12 volts, get a new battery too, yours is toast. It should be reading 12.5 volts or higher, anything lower is bad.
You must have some module that isn't shutting down.

The battery has never shown over 12V on the dash. This is the first time I've measured it with a voltmeter. I agree, it should measure over 12V after being fully charged. Maybe 100AH was too small a battery. It does sound a bit laboured when starting the engine sometimes. The rate at which it drains down is way more than I would expect, if it was the correct sized battery, compared to that in my old E46 which lasted 5 years doing the same type of mileage (it had fewer gadgets) without ever being charged.

[PliSsK]

I have had similar problems with my 2001 740 iSport. When it was about a year old this started - I took it to the dealer and they said OK there is a service bulletin covering this - they reflashed the DME and all was good 'till '06 when I allowed the battery to go completely dead while moving. The master key was in the ignition at the time. I replace the battery then as it checked bad, original at the time.

That original key never worked again unfortunately. The dealer tried to get the car to recognize the key but no go...they removed from the EWS list and replaced several times without success - they said they could not make it work and recommended that I replace the key which I did. Now for the last two years it has been doing this again for no apparent reason. It will always start but it may take 1-12 tries to actually do so. My car only has 32 K miles so I don't thing the starter is the problem. I will say that the Valet key will always start the car better than the Masters. why I don't know but that would eliminate your key battery idea - no battery in the Valet key. I had one other member say that he replaced the ignition ring antenna ($ 11.00 item and 30 minutes to install) this reads the chip and charges the key battery. He said his car was now better. I replaced mine last week and so far it's good...... we will see how long this works.

Oh - I now have an aftermarket tune so I do not want to reflash the DME and loose that tune.

Sorry to hear about your problems with your 740. Would I be right in assuming that when the engine wouldn't start, you heard the same click noise?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=32_0703

This is the ring antenna the guy used?

Cheers.

[TxDarth]

Sorry to hear about your problems with your 740. Would I be right in assuming that when the engine wouldn't start, you heard the same click noise?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=32_0703

This is the ring antenna the guy used?

Cheers.

That is it #7 - and yes the same clicking as you described, click, turn off back to start - maybe another click or maybe a start............

[PliSsK]

That is it #7 - and yes the same clicking as you described, click, turn off back to start - maybe another click or maybe a start............

Thanks. Before you replaced yours, did you ever try holding your spare key up to side of the ignition antenna barrel whilst turning the ignition with your main key?

EDIT: I read about this last night as being a workaround or way to diagnose an ignition antenna whose range had dropped off and wasn't powerful enough to detect the key in its normal position inside the ignition barrel.

I tried it this morning and the car started first time! I will keep testing this but if this is a consistent pattern then it would appear that I need to replace the ignition ring antenna and also the battery (separate problem lol - and get a 110AH rather than a 100AH size).

EDIT2: The battery spec for the 540i/535i in the car's manual is 12V 90AH. The original BMW branded factory battery was 12V 90AH 720A, and the current Bosch S5 battery 12V 100AH 830A exceeds the spec so I'm surprised its performance was so poor from new, maybe it was a dud.

[alberttm]

You've pretty much confirmed it's the starter.

+1

[geargrinder]

Yep.

BTW the key battery is completely uninvolved with starting the car - it's for remote lock functions only. The immob/EWS to key communications is 'passive' as far as the key is concerned - it reads the key inductively through the coil. As proof and as noted - the valet key has no battery but works exactly the same principle.

Agree the battery is pooched, I'd replace that first anyway. Then would suspect the starter as well.

[PliSsK]

Thanks for the explanation Geargrinder, and everyone for your input. I just edited post 8 with an update. I agree the battery needs replacing whatever else is going on. Basically the car started first time when I held the spare key up against the ignition ring whilst turning the ignition, so it seems like it is likely the ignition is the main problem but will keep doing this each time and observe how I get on with it. Cheers.

[geargrinder]

Hmmm... OK... could be the low voltage is impairing the inductive "antenna ring" function?

I don't think they (the antenna rings) go bad really often at all but sounds like Darth maybe has that problem? Could always check the ring antenna connector there - its not too bad to drop the steering column covers and get eyes and hands on it.

[PliSsK]

Hmmm... OK... could be the low voltage is impairing the inductive "antenna ring" function?

I don't think they (the antenna rings) go bad really often at all but sounds like Darth maybe has that problem? Could always check the ring antenna connector there - its not too bad to drop the steering column covers and get eyes and hands on it.

Thanks. That is possible I guess. If I have to replace the battery anyway, then the sensible way round is to do that first and see if it fixes the problem rather than ordering a new antenna ring or taking the ignition apart for a survey now. If it does transpire to be the battery all along that is the culprit, then I will apologise for wasting everyone's time!! lol Cheers.

[JimLev]

The antenna ring is just a coil of wire, no active components. You could ohm it to see if you have continuity.
If the ring wasn't reading the key I doubt you'd even get a click out of the starter.
How old is your ignition switch??

[PliSsK]

The antenna ring is just a coil of wire, no active components. You could ohm it to see if you have continuity.
If the ring wasn't reading the key I doubt you'd even get a click out of the starter.
How old is your ignition switch??

It's all original, from 2001. The car has lowish mileage (59,000 miles). If it was the antenna ring, I would assume it was the connector that was likely the problem.

[TxDarth]

It's all original, from 2001. The car has lowish mileage (59,000 miles). If it was the antenna ring, I would assume it was the connector that was likely the problem.

I also replaced my ignition switch long ago as a possible idea to correct this problem - no help.

As I mentioned earlier - evidently BMW knew about these problems as early as 2002 in my case as there was already a service bulletin covering this and recommended a DME reflash as a correction. They must have changed something in the software to help correct this as it did work initially in my case.

[PliSsK]

I also replaced my ignition switch long ago as a possible idea to correct this problem - no help.

As I mentioned earlier - evidently BMW knew about these problems as early as 2002 in my case as there was already a service bulletin covering this and recommended a DME reflash as a correction. They must have changed something in the software to help correct this as it did work initially in my case.

According to realOEM, the E39/E38 ignition ring was superceded by the new (more reliable?) part in 2005, so any E39/E38 with an original ignition would have the old version.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...&q=61356964556

[TxDarth]

According to realOEM, the E39/E38 ignition ring was superceded by the new (more reliable?) part in 2005, so any E39/E38 with an original ignition would have the old version.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...&q=61356964556

My replacement was the 4556 number also. Some one said just a winding of wire, no active parts would be a hard failure. That is true. However, the size of wire the number of turns/winding would both make a difference. Inductance is weird to work with. I can only relate back many years ago to my slot car days. I got into rewinding my armatures for the motors - I found different size wire and the number of turns would drastically effect the performance Once you got that down - balancing became the next step - again made a big difference. That would not be a problem here but the windings, etc. sure would. The charge and the ability to read the chip[s in the keys would both be effected in this way........

[PliSsK]

A few days after this almost total ignition failure (starting car 1 in 10 attempts), overnight, the car was starting most times I turned the ignition.

I then changed the battery as the battery supplier showed it only measuring 12.3V when fully charged and supplying enough but slightly lower level of maximum current. OBC dashboard diagnostics and my multimeter measuring the battery connected in parallel was showing lower voltage value than actual).

Also changed the ignition antenna ring to a new one. Still getting ignition failures around 30% of ignition attempts.

I have no way of knowing if the new ignition antenna ring helped or not. The problem as of now I think it might be the ignition switch.

Another factor that might back this theory up is suspected excessive battery drainage since 2013: Battery died within a week of first acquiring car, and I replaced it with a new battery, and was charging it every month, and doing mixed journeys a couple of times a week, but when waiting 6 weeks after a charge it went completely flat. Intermittent ignition problems have been present since that time too, so they might be symptoms of the same problem.

If the ignition switch was causing a parasitic drain, would it run the battery flat so slowly, or would it more likely completely drain the battery overnight? If there is continuous parasitic drain, it might of course be a separate problem (a continuous drain from another component in the car), but if the ignition switch really is causing the problem with the starting failures, it will need replacing anyway, and the suspected parasitic drain might then go away. The starter motor could potentially be running the battery down because it is drawing more current than normal as it is old, with no continuous drain occurring.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance for the help.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Hey man, I just saw this. I had this issue with my 540 a year ago. It wasn't the battery, battery was good. But I was getting the same one click and nothing on start up. On my car, it did it a couple times in a week, I was already figuring on ordering a new starter, but first.....
And sure enough, I went to check the battery connections, the positive terminal was good, the negative was solid at the battery post, but it was loose at the body. Not sure if you already checked that.

- - - Updated - - -

The battery will never get a full proper charge if the connections are loose.

[PliSsK]

Hey man, I just saw this. I had this issue with my 540 a year ago. It wasn't the battery, battery was good. But I was getting the same one click and nothing on start up. On my car, it did it a couple times in a week, I was already figuring on ordering a new starter, but first.....
And sure enough, I went to check the battery connections, the positive terminal was good, the negative was solid at the battery post, but it was loose at the body. Not sure if you already checked that.

- - - Updated - - -

The battery will never get a full proper charge if the connections are loose.

Interesting. So you mean your brown negative cable was loose at the fixture at the far right of the picture below?

http://cdn4.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec...mall/pic05.jpg

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Yep! It was on there, but loose enough that I could twist it. As soon as I tightened the piss out of the 13mm nut, or is it a bolt? But as soon as I tightened it, car has been fine since.

[PliSsK]

Yep! It was on there, but loose enough that I could twist it. As soon as I tightened the piss out of the 13mm nut, or is it a bolt? But as soon as I tightened it, car has been fine since.

Thanks for the tip. I'm glad you got your starting issue resolved. I checked that nut and it was rock solid. The nuts on the battery end were all pretty tight but I tightened them up a fraction too just in case.

Has anyone paid for a BMW specialist to do a diagnostic for ignition problems? My local specialist charges £35 which is pretty reasonable but the ignition switch itself is £80, so I'm tempted to just put in a new ignition switch at this stage and chance it (again lol), unless anyone has any other ideas. Cheers.

[StephenVA]

The Ign switch has a few hidden items that show up when they fail. Lookup Ignition switch sun visor test (basicly you look to see if the light on the visor turns on when you have the no start issue as the light circuit s activated by Ign Sw.

The replacement is real simple and straightforward remove and replace.

[PliSsK]

The Ign switch has a few hidden items that show up when they fail. Lookup Ignition switch sun visor test (basicly you look to see if the light on the visor turns on when you have the no start issue as the light circuit s activated by Ign Sw.

The replacement is real simple and straightforward remove and replace.

Hey thanks Stephen. I've never had any of the strange dash errors at any time as far as I recall. I did the sun visor test before but stupidly at a time when the ignition/cranking was working, so of course it passed. I will be doing this sun visor test next time I experience the click/no crank/no start situation. Cheers.