I've been pretty happy with my LuK M5 clutch up until this winter. The DMFW and clutch only have about 15K mi. on them, but with the cold air, the power increased enough to start slipping on hwy pulls. The clutch was never beat on, and drives smooth as stock, but its limits have been met.
UUC had a sale and I bit. I went organic twin disc as I like the stock engagement and pedal, and needed at least a stage 3+ clutch holding capacity. Going LWFW and a stage 3+ has some streetabilty drawbacks and is not much cheaper, so that is why I went with the twin. I got a few hours without the kids yesterday to get moving on the install.
Packaging was good, and parts look well made. Heat treated starter gear and nice machining and fasteners. They supply new flywheel bolts and throwout bearing.
20170326_221933_1490618091801_resized.jpg
I got impatient and just bench pressed the tranny off this time. Much faster than using the jack and I could jockey it around to clear the headers easier. The fat parts of the bell housing where the starter is, requires the tranny to be rotated to clear the headers. This is a piece of cake when you are holding it vs on a jack. A bit hard to get off your stomach once its on top of you though. Working on the floor with jackstands kinda sucks in general, but it makes hauling the tranny down a bit easier I think. Car needs a wash!
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M5 Clutch. I carefully marked the location of the SAC mechanism before taking the clutch off. I thought it would spring around and rotate, but it never moved after I removed it. Strange, as i thought these always rotate after removal and need a press to reset. Any ideas?
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Pressure plate and flywheel faces both still have the factory grooves so no real wear yet. A tiny bit of heat tinge, but nothing bad. Everything was flat and nice still. I always let off when it started to slip, so that limited the heat buildup.
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Clutch disc measured. Still looks very good. Anyone know the thickness new? I think I will save this whole set up as a spare or sell it.
20170326_220143_1490618101085_resized.jpg
98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!
Not much wear.
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20170326_215929_1490618102838_resized.jpg
Cover plate and rear main seal were all done last time round. They still look good.
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More updates later on the new clutch going in.
98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!
Bench pressing the tranny...you animal. I've always done the same thing until I changed the clutch in this car, didn't know how much it would weigh. Put it on the scale after I took it off the jack, 105Lbs.
Those Chevy 3/4 speed trannys were a lot lighter to bench press in and out.
I think I have the thickness of a new clutch somewhere, I'll dig thru my info for it.
Good luck with the dual disc, it looks nice.
Nice looking upgrade.
Has anyone here successfully preloaded/pressed a used BMW SAC back into position?
I plan on buying an M5 clutch when I convert to 6spd, and this one might fit the bill (asking price depending) if the SAC function can be victoriously reinstalled.
WG, yes there have been a few post showing they succeed in re-using the pressure plate.
Philly, here ya go.
Mine started to slip only when using the juice.
Clutch_Parts3.JPG
Last edited by JimLev; 03-27-2017 at 11:30 AM.
In for a wheelie when launch off in first gear as the lights go out!
Yeah, this one is on the heavy side for sure. The tail end is where all the weight is. Not too bad when your centered under it and the car is jacked up just the right amount so your arm leverage is good. I may try to re-install this way, but not sure if I can get under it though to get it started on the way up.
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thanks for the thickness Jim. So, mine looks like maybe 30% worn. Not too shabby. These M5 clutches hold some good power for sure.
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Just for you Manny!
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Video to come Awk.
98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!
It's going to be tough to muscle it in and to get the splines to line up. When I did mine (using the tranny jack) I had the tranny in gear so I could turn the output shaft to align the splines. Then you gotta get the front of the shaft into the pilot bearing. None of this was hard to do with the old lighter weight Chebby trannys but it could be a bear doing it on your back without a jack......Might need to do many 12oz curls, lol.
good luck.
Nice work. It's never fun bench pressing those into place.
Lookin good Chris!
Your clutch looks phenomenal for having slipped - absolutely looks still usable. My LWFW friction plate and clutch disk from the SouthBend fiasco were TORCHED in comparison. I think I was not always detecting the slip, and, it happened often just after hitting gas on a hard WOT shift run so it would be "too late" for me to back off often.
Anxious to see how it goes and how you like the feel of that guy. Would like to see pix/narrative on the bolt up and how the 'stack' goes together as you bolt it up.
Per our prev convos about this stuff off-line, I'm always curious "who really makes this stuff" since we all know UUC doesn't really have a clutch factory.
A lot of the physical features look like some innerwebz pix of McCleod clutches. Like a cross between their twin disk and their 'tuner' series.
Maybe they make it under contract for UUC.
But then again from the research you and I were doing I wonder who DOES even have clutch factories (aka we seemed to find Sachs/Luk make all the frames for every 'brand' of clutch that fit BMW...)
Welcome to the modern business world... only 3-4 companies make any given thing, the other 100 companies in that business are just marketing stuff...
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
I'm here! Lol
Can't wait to see how you come out with this Chris, even though I can't be buying a clutch that costs as much as the car it's going on (slight exageration, but maybe not too much more than slight)...
Good idea on putting it in gear so I can align the splines. I almost forgot about that! I may use the jack to put it back in. Not sure yet... I was doing my 12oz workout last night so who knows.
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I know, I was expecting much more hot spots and wear. Seems like a waste to take out a good flywheel and clutch.
BTW, UUC says they make the parts for this, but I'm not sure what "makes" means. Obv, the PP is Sachs or something, as well as the discs that get modded by them. The machining on the flywheel and floating middle disc looks very nice if they do actually make them. More dets coming on the install.
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Glad to have you Thad! I agree its too much $$ for my car, but I'm into this gig now, and ANY clutch/LWFW combo that would hold, would be close to this price range (well thats what I tell myself anyway). The value is all relative really, and I've not spent much in the last year or so.
98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!
Definitely get the beer muscles going!
Yeah I could see them making some of the FW / middle disk parts for sure - or at least contracting them to be mfg by some CNC shop then assembling in house. Pretty much guarantee they ain't makin the clutch disk or PP itself.
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
Got a little time last night to do some more on this.
I measure the approximate "stack height" of the M5 clutch mounted on the factory 540 DWFW vs the UUC twin. I measured from the back side of the flywheel mounting surface to the face of the splines. The twin is about 9 mm less. This puts the throwout bearing a little closer to the engine when you release the clutch. UUC confirmed this is proper and pedal height will be good. I guess its all figured in.
2017-03-28 11.09.54_1490714501775.jpg2017-03-28 11.10.19_1490714501689.jpg
Here's all the parts of the twin. Flywheel, bottom disc, floater/cage, top disc, PP. Some balance holes drilled to balance out the whole assy. They XX mark each piece to ensure it gets re-assembled in the correct orientation.
2017-03-28 11.08.05_1490714501923.jpg
Back side of FW.
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Back side of PP.
2017-03-28 11.11.00_1490714501591.jpg
98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!
Honestly it isn't really that hard to justify the cost of this clutch if you don't put it in the terms that I did. If you think about the capability of the car, how nice the car is, and total cost with the clutch included, it's still a relative bargain! But anyway, I don't mean to derail your thread on ridiculous discussion of cost, so hopefully this will be the end of that! (it will be from me)
Onto more pertinent discussion points, I think I saw somewhere -- maybe in one of your posts above, although I don't see it on a super fast skim -- that they include a new TOB. Is it the same thickness/height as the stocker? If it isn't taller to compensate for the shorter stack height it makes me wonder if clutch disengagement would be even closer to the floor? On my car I wouldn't want that..
Last edited by tptrsn; 03-28-2017 at 12:26 PM. Reason: Striving for some clarity in what I meant... :/
Surprised its shorter. Yeah I guess ditching the DMFW buys a lot of height!
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
Back side of floater/cage. The floater floats on three leaf springs that connect on ears on the outer part of the floater plate. These leaf springs bend as you actuate the clutch. This pushes the floater away from bottom clutch disc when you push in the clutch pedal so it doesn't drag, then allows the floater to clamp onto the bottom disc when you release the pedal. I measured about 0.080" of clearance for the bottom disc when the clutch is released. I guess this gap gets a little wider as the bottom disc wears.
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Side view of leaf spring. Its made of three layers of spring steel.
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Top disc (closest to tranny).
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Bottom disc (closest to engine). They use more segment cuts on the top disc vs the bottom and also a different compound. I guess this is for reducing chatter or something. Not sure...
2017-03-28 11.11.57_1490714501441.jpg
Flywheel mounted. UUC supplies new bolts. They come with threadlock compound on them, but instructions call for adding liquid too to ensure they stay tight. A gall plate is added under the bolts so the aluminum does not get buggered up by the bolts. Tighten is two steps to 40 then 80 ft-lbs in numbered sequence.
2017-03-28 11.14.27_1490714501170.jpg
98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!
Bottom disc and floater installed. Sorry, the lighting is not so good under the car.
2017-03-28 11.15.26_1490714501056.jpg
Top disc set in place with alignment tool. You can see bottom disc behind it.
2017-03-28 11.16.20_1490714500961.jpg
Pressure plate installed. Note XX marks need to line up. PP get tightened at 15 them 30 Ft-#s in criss cross pattern. Locktight on nuts. Nice 12 point nuts from UUC.
2017-03-28 11.17.29_1490714500915.jpg
All aligned and ready for tranny.
2017-03-28 11.18.10_1490714500828.jpg
Getting tranny ready. Guide tube and pivot was replaced recently, and still looks good.
2017-03-28 11.19.03_1490714500786.jpg
98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!
You've ruined the bottom disc already? How nice of you!
Man, that really all does look like nice quality stuff!
UUC supplies a new sachs throwout with the kit. I use moly grease on the pivot, throwout ears, and slave contact spot. Light coat brushed onto the splines.
2017-03-28 11.19.45_1490714500609.jpg
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The new throwout is the same height as the original. They say engagement should be close to stock, so the fulcrum point of the PP fingers must be different to allow this. They sure look way different anyway. We will see...
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TWSS! I was surprised too....
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Are you drunk AWK?
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Yeah, there was a couple errant minor scratches on the FW, but quality looks very good on the parts they make.
98 540i 6, 525 whp, 120 mph 1/4, V3 Si S/C'er @16 psi, W/A I/C, Water/Meth, Supersprint Headers, HJS Cats, 3" Custom Exhaust, UUC Twin Disc, Wavetrac LSD, GC Coil Overs, Monoball TA, AEM FP, Aeromotive FPR, AEM Failsafe AFR/Boost, Style 65's w/275's, M5 Steering Box, Eibach Sways, M3 Shifter, Evans Coolant, 85 Deg Stat, PWM Fan, 10" Subs, B.A. speakers, Grom Aux/BT, Still Rolling as my DD!
Not drunk, phillysamich. Just kidding.
That bottom disc picture looks like it's been scratched already thanks to the camera's lighting.
e39 540i 6speed Supercharged,
E36 v8 m62 with m60 headers, Turbp HX-40 0.6-0.5bar or 9psi, custom exhaust & Turbo manifold, injectors 440cc, ECU Invent EMS-2, Mishimoto Intercooler and oilcooler, etc…
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