Air Conditioning Retro Fit

[TonyPa]

I don't know if this was posted yet. My air still works very well for now. I think mine still has the R12 in it.

Here's a link for the retro fit, for the R134.

http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/airc...con_R134a.html


.

[shogun]

I made it like this
http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/AC/Index.htm
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/77998
as my dryer was leaking anyway, I changed that too and vacuumed with a vacuum pump, before filling R134a with oil in the conversion kit. Did not change any o-rings, works since 11 years.
Edit: forgot, that I also changed low and high pressure switch which is mounted on top of the dryer, that was actually the cause of my leak with R12 then, the R12 and oil leak around the electrical connector plastic.
Cooling with R134a is fine now.
Some years ago I had a problem with the compressor, the magnetic clutch was wobbling and made noise, it was not the clutch but the shaft of the compressor where the magnetic clutch always moves back and forward, apparently over the years this shaft became a bit thinner. We made a repair by using the old compressor and some parts from a E31 850 compressor. Shaft is from the 850 compressor.

[unity]

My car say for almost 10 years. And the AC was dead. When I attempted to charge, it was pretty clear what the issue was - the dryer. So I swapped to a new one that is also for 134. In fact, pretty much any new one you buy will work with R12 or 134. I did replace a couple o-rings in the area. Also I did remove the AC compressor to drain all the oil out. Then I filled with proper amount of ester oil - ester oil is the best you can use since its compatible with R12 or 134 and it will mingle with any mineral oil left in the system without any issue. 134 does not work with mineral oil on its own. I did not replace the pressure switch or expansion valve. With pro gauges I have to measure both sides and add, I put in straight 134 with no oil, since I added the ester myself. System still working great!

[letank]

Still on R12, very impressed.
As said above R134 is a smaller molecule, it will leak past some of the fittings and if a hose has to be replaced it should be a R134 barrier hose, the catch is the newer hoses do not have the exact same OD/ID as the old R12 hoses... But the R12 hoses can be still good, because the oil has made a coating that help the hose to withstand R134 and the increased pressure. Yes a R12 system is unlikely to be as good with R134, the condenser is different too. I added AC to the grocery getter Honda civic, because I found a perfectly tight system at the junkyard, I almost blew the gas in my face when I loosened the fittings,so I grabbed everything, the only bad part : one of the relay was non-op. Blowing cold on R134, but I bought a new compressor equipped with the newer green O-rings. The compressor is a bit tight to remove, but not as bad as a 740 alternator...

[TonyPa]

I am honestly shocked mine still has the R12 in it. I guess it is.

My buddy was looking and said something about the fittings, and said it was R12. I know it sure blows ice cold air. Much colder than my wifes brand new Jeep!

I just seen that article on facebook and posted it here. I don't mess with A/C, well hopefully I don't have too anytime soon...LOL

[unity]

You can not just trust the fittings though, mine still has R12 fittings too. But I bet if my dryer did not rust out, mine may still have been charged with r12 also. With that said, the dryer is a serviceable item that needs regular replacement. Just like a fuel filter.

[TonyPa]

You could be right. He just looked at the fittings and said..."You still have R12". Personally I find that hard to believe. But then again, I know nothing about A/C. It nice and cold!

I hope if the time comes, I know what to add to it, as in top it off with. I don't know if the 2 mix.

[shogun]

You cannot mix R12 and R134a. Also the connectors are different. If you look at the high price for R12, and compare it with R134a, example
R12 Refrigerant12 12oz Can $30 per can
R134aRefrigerant 12 oz Can below $7 per can

you can see that it pays to change

[TonyPa]

Maybe mine is R12 then..that's probably why my buddy said that, when he looked at those connections. Mine is sincerely ice cold still.

I don't think they sale R12 here anymore. I think it is illegal. Unless I just heard a rumor.

[XAlt]

It's illegal to sell new.
https://www.amazon.com/RED-TEK-Refri.../dp/B00HEPH26O

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...FRmewAod9AcGiQ

This is the legal lazy edition retrofit, just charge and done.

[CroughtonE32]

It's illegal to sell new.
https://www.amazon.com/RED-TEK-Refri.../dp/B00HEPH26O

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...FRmewAod9AcGiQ

This is the legal lazy edition retrofit, just charge and done.

That's amazing to me. I thought it was unable to be sold to anybody who did not have a license to purchase it and proof of a recovery system. I remember back in my E23 days, at the end, I had so many A/C leaks....living in Florida and using the A/C 100% of the time, I purchased a 30 gal tank from a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who somehow caught it with three fingers falling off a truck. I paid about $700.00 and actually hid it in my garage in fear of ownership. Live and learn.

[XAlt]

That's amazing to me. I thought it was unable to be sold to anybody who did not have a license to purchase it and proof of a recovery system. I remember back in my E23 days, at the end, I had so many A/C leaks....living in Florida and using the A/C 100% of the time, I purchased a 30 gal tank from a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who somehow caught it with three fingers falling off a truck. I paid about $700.00 and actually hid it in my garage in fear of ownership. Live and learn.

This isn't proper R12 gas. It's just a charge and play retrofit. 65 bucks saves you time and monies.


I've got some SuperBlue hiding in a safe, come and get it, DOT.

[letank]

check your local CL, there is always somebody selling some old cans...

[youngbimmer]

I have heard, from the E24 guys, the stock tube-fin condenser we have on all R12 charged BMWs should be replaced to parallel flow type condenser so that the R134A cools better, as it was not designed for tube-fin style. True or not?

[NE32]

Debating if I should do the retrofit or just find some cans of R12. There is little to no freon in the system. AC clutch won't even turn on. Great opportunity to change over but I'm being lazy lol.

[shogun]

I have heard, from the E24 guys, the stock tube-fin condenser we have on all R12 charged BMWs should be replaced to parallel flow type condenser so that the R134A cools better, as it was not designed for tube-fin style. True or not?

I have no problem after converting to R134a with cooling. Have not heard from E32 owners that they changed the condenser, also the official BMW retrofit kit does not include this. But check yours, if it is clean and not full of dirt.

[XAlt]

Debating if I should do the retrofit or just find some cans of R12. There is little to no freon in the system. AC clutch won't even turn on. Great opportunity to change over but I'm being lazy lol.

R12 or R12a.

Time>>>>>>>>>>>>>Money

[CroughtonE32]

Debating if I should do the retrofit or just find some cans of R12. There is little to no freon in the system. AC clutch won't even turn on. Great opportunity to change over but I'm being lazy lol.

You have the M30 motor like I do, so you can do the conversion pretty easily. I've read three or four different ways of doing it, but I can tell you how my conversion went. I did it at a time when I needed a new compressor. It was perfect timing. Over the 27 years I've owned this car my A/C has been great other than the occasional expansion valve. That's normal on these motors. Every five years or so.......that's always where we caught the leak. So, dropping out the glove box and getting to the expansion valve became really easy because when you do something over and over again it becomes second nature. Although I'm not a mechanic, I've watched all the maintenance on this car as my BMW mechanic is also my closest friend. So, the conversion went like this. Replaced the compressor with identical Seiko compressor that came on the car. it was expensive but original. Replaced the Dryer. Maybe the forth dryer since 1990. Replaced the two fittings. Evacuated the system to hold Zero on the vacuum pump for 30 minutes and then charged with R134a. Everything went well. No difference in cold temperature for me using R12 during the first twenty or so years. I'm in South Florida and use the A/C all the time. So there are two things to think about when doing this. If you're going to keep your compressor you need to remove it.....drain the oil and replace the oil with correct oil for 134a. The only other problem I had, came about five months after my conversion. Everything got warm very quickly. We checked for leaks and when we pulled the evaporator to see the expansion valve, the evaporator itself was destroyed. Did some research with the people at Vista BMW where my guy worked for 33 years, and his boss told us that copper core evaporators do not do well with 134a. He said that E32 M30 motors came from the factory with both copper or aluminum cores. Mine was of course copper. I checked BavAuto and saw pictures on their site of both copper and aluminum core evaporators. I ordered the aluminum one and we installed it with the new expansion valve. That was about six years ago and everything is still ice cold. My condenser is original and has never been changed. My A/C hoses are original and have never been changed. Getting the evaporator out can be difficult the first time. You loosen up the two hoses where they connect to the body of the car on the passenger side. That makes things lose inside. Once you remove the glove box and the side panel, it's pretty much a matter of pulling the evaporator to you. The expansion valve is on it. Check number 14 here. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=64_1800
Important to make sure you don't lose this wire on the driver's side of the evaporator. It's called the Evaporator Temperature Sensor. It makes the compressor turn on and off while driving. If you lose it on install your compressor will run 100% of the time. That happened to me once. It just got lost. Bought one for about 30 dollars and after installing it, the compressor started working as usual. Hope this helps you.
Jeff

I found two pictures of evaporators. Easy to see which is copper and which is aluminum. Even in small pics.

[NE32]

Thanks for the info! I think I will start collecting parts to convert it. It's so nice out here that AC isn't even needed. That will change with the coming months.

You have the M30 motor like I do, so you can do the conversion pretty easily. I've read three or four different ways of doing it, but I can tell you how my conversion went. I did it at a time when I needed a new compressor. It was perfect timing. Over the 27 years I've owned this car my A/C has been great other than the occasional expansion valve. That's normal on these motors. Every five years or so.......that's always where we caught the leak. So, dropping out the glove box and getting to the expansion valve became really easy because when you do something over and over again it becomes second nature. Although I'm not a mechanic, I've watched all the maintenance on this car as my BMW mechanic is also my closest friend. So, the conversion went like this. Replaced the compressor with identical Seiko compressor that came on the car. it was expensive but original. Replaced the Dryer. Maybe the forth dryer since 1990. Replaced the two fittings. Evacuated the system to hold Zero on the vacuum pump for 30 minutes and then charged with R134a. Everything went well. No difference in cold temperature for me using R12 during the first twenty or so years. I'm in South Florida and use the A/C all the time. So there are two things to think about when doing this. If you're going to keep your compressor you need to remove it.....drain the oil and replace the oil with correct oil for 134a. The only other problem I had, came about five months after my conversion. Everything got warm very quickly. We checked for leaks and when we pulled the evaporator to see the expansion valve, the evaporator itself was destroyed. Did some research with the people at Vista BMW where my guy worked for 33 years, and his boss told us that copper core evaporators do not do well with 134a. He said that E32 M30 motors came from the factory with both copper or aluminum cores. Mine was of course copper. I checked BavAuto and saw pictures on their site of both copper and aluminum core evaporators. I ordered the aluminum one and we installed it with the new expansion valve. That was about six years ago and everything is still ice cold. My condenser is original and has never been changed. My A/C hoses are original and have never been changed. Getting the evaporator out can be difficult the first time. You loosen up the two hoses where they connect to the body of the car on the passenger side. That makes things lose inside. Once you remove the glove box and the side panel, it's pretty much a matter of pulling the evaporator to you. The expansion valve is on it. Check number 14 here. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=64_1800
Important to make sure you don't lose this wire on the driver's side of the evaporator. It's called the Evaporator Temperature Sensor. It makes the compressor turn on and off while driving. If you lose it on install your compressor will run 100% of the time. That happened to me once. It just got lost. Bought one for about 30 dollars and after installing it, the compressor started working as usual. Hope this helps you.
Jeff

I found two pictures of evaporators. Easy to see which is copper and which is aluminum. Even in small pics.

[youngbimmer]

I have no problem after converting to R134a with cooling. Have not heard from E32 owners that they changed the condenser, also the official BMW retrofit kit does not include this. But check yours, if it is clean and not full of dirt.

It was all very scientific what the E24 guy was saying, somehow the R134A is optimized for parallel flow condensers and would cool even better than tube-fin style. He said nothing about it not working with existing condensers, just that the cooling performance could still be improved further and it applied to all BMWs of that era (E23, E28, E24, E30, E32, E34, etc) that converted to R134A. I'll see if I can dig up the post he made.