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Thread: 2017 Australian GP @ Melbourne

  1. #51
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    Hamilton losing ground to Vettel, Bottas gaining ground to Hamilton. 2017 is looking good!

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    Yeah, looking good for Bottas if Hamilton gets slowed down by the backmarkers.



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    Vettel wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Yes! Ferrari wins!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan M3 View Post
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    Woohoo! Exceptional drive by Vettel, and (for once) a perfect strategy call by the team. Nice start to the season.
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    Other takeaways - Alonso fighting for 10th before a SUSPENSION failure! I figured the engine would have blown on the formation lap, and his post-race interview was quite the lulz.
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  8. #58
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    WOOOOOO!!!!!

    So much to take in from this race.


    (I've never been so happy to be proved wrong, for this race at least!)

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    YEEAAAAAAAAHH!!

    This took too long, but at last it's here!
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    Great first race. Let's see in the next few GP's if Ferrari is the team to beat. RBR will have to catch up now. Trying to stay close in dirty air is going to be challenging.

    Poor Daniel. This has got to the be the most unluckiest weekend for him at his own home GP.



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    I have a feeling that the extra large bargeboards (etc) on the Ferrari allow then to still create the Y-250 vortexes (somewhat better) than other teams when following in dirty air. The larger size cater for more varied distribution of the vortexes hitting the bargeboards for proper deflection. Just a guess but I don't see an other reason - especially that other teams are still retaining the thinner/smaller bargeboards.

    Note: I'm no CFD expert so this is a guesstimate - this allows the air being controlled via the front wing to come at slightly different angles and no matter where it's deflected to it will still hit the bargeboards

    My own mspaint Y-250 flow diagrams to show

    ferrari-sf70-h-v1.jpg

    As you can see - the Y-250 can still hit the bargeboards even with minor caveats/deflections - the airflow is between the front wheel and the chassis

    ferrari-sf70-h-v2.png

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    ^You think that was the difference-maker today? Or just a detail that contributed to Maranello's pace advantage?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldUlysses View Post
    ^You think that was the difference-maker today? Or just a detail that contributed to Maranello's pace advantage?
    I think the size of their bargeboards would slow them down in clean air but I think it allowed them to follow a touch more closely than other teams. I think that's why there's air spill slots on the bottom of the outboard bargeboard - to not damage the flow too much when in clean air.

    I think predominantly - the car is just more balanced and with a better Ferrari PU. Ferrari have definitely caught up 99% with Merc but I think Merc may have been a little more cautious with regards to the oil usage (for extra hydrocarbons - more power) limits that have now been defined. It's worrying that the Haas Ferrari PU had a failure - but that could be due to their own cooling not being as efficient - I'm hoping.

    I'm just super happy that Merc has a valid challenger - so far. China is a definite power circuit so we'll see more about Ferrari's catchup there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by auaq View Post
    Great first race. Let's see in the next few GP's if Ferrari is the team to beat. RBR will have to catch up now. Trying to stay close in dirty air is going to be challenging.

    Poor Daniel. This has got to the be the most unluckiest weekend for him at his own home GP.
    After thinking about it - the race was great only because someone other than Merc won. (I love that Seb won).

    However, there wasn't much racing going on due to new cars/etc. So as an F1 race it wasn't all that but it was still great to see the new cars in anger. To see the speeds they now carry. To see someone else challenge for a win. That was GREAT!

    Also, Bottas keeps my spirits high too. Good drive from him but I'm sure he was told to keep position (until he lost a second because of blue flags with 2 laps left). He was taking chunks of out Lewis. That was exciting for me. Another challenger could appear.

    Also, it shows just how quick nico really was when he was on his game. I think his time spent against Schumi indicated to people that Schumi had lost it rather than Nico had it too. Nico was very underrated by most fans. Much like Bottas is underrated IMO.

    The Kvyat - Sainz battle is going to be great too now that the STR is looking good mid pack.

    With the ease that Perez and Hulk have showed up their teammates it proves they were driving the snot out of the FIs last year. But Ocon did get a point - which is very cool and I'm glad for him.

    If I were a McLaren fan I would not have had my hopes stirred by Alonso's drive. They were still using way too much fuel compared to everyone else and he would have been a sitting duck had he lasted through the race. The honda PU is truly a fiasco. The hype was so strong and yet all they've done is deliver truly sub-par PUs. Heads will roll before the year is out.

    Also, really happy to see Pat Symonds on Sky but unhappy that he's out at Williams. he's a bright guy with a plethora of insider knowledge. Also seeing Paddy Lowe in Williams garb was like a WTF moment for me even though I knew he'd left Merc.

    Other random thoughts that I've stewed on over the day:
    The RBR is a handful. Neither drivers are used it anymore but Max is closer in time to a mid-field team - much like Danny was his first year at RBR against Seb. Time will tell who's the quickest and it's something I'm really looking forward to. They've had to run with less downforce (much like McLaren) because they don't have the PU to push it through the air. But. it seems to me, they've also made a chassis that doesn't have a large setup window - much like Ferrari (and williams) of the past few years.

    Still, really excited for this season... totally unlike the past 2 years!

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    ^Great analysis, as always. Re:the Hamilton-Bottas "battle," what you do make of Hammy's whining about the floor and the tires? Do you think that was a problem that was unique to him and the broadcasters just chose to highlight it via his radio transmissions? Or an issue with the Merc in general?

    Would have loved to have seen Bottas take a swipe at Hamilton in the closing laps. There was disagreement among the NBCSN guys as to whether he would have actually done it, given the chance.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldUlysses View Post
    ^Great analysis, as always. Re:the Hamilton-Bottas "battle," what you do make of Hammy's whining about the floor and the tires? Do you think that was a problem that was unique to him and the broadcasters just chose to highlight it via his radio transmissions? Or an issue with the Merc in general?

    Would have loved to have seen Bottas take a swipe at Hamilton in the closing laps. There was disagreement among the NBCSN guys as to whether he would have actually done it, given the chance.
    I think hamilton plays mind games with the radio. He always says things like: my tires are going off - then sets a fastest lap etc. I think he wasn't happy with the balance of the car... during his pit stop the mechs adjusted his front wing - not unusual but shows a balance issue. I just think he couldn't get/keep the tires in optimal temps due to his driving constraints from the unbalance. The car was perfect for quali but not so much for heavy race going - leading to him struggling a bit. But still his "struggles" would beat 50% of F1 drivers with perfect balance. I do think he's that good. But he's also so used to the car being perfect he battles more than he should with a less forgiving car - unlike Bottas - who's thoroughly used to the williams chassis (IOW kinda a shot in the dark on turn in, and power from apex).

    Also, Bottas is a true team player. The reason why he's not considered a good driver is because his mandate from williams has always been: bring the car home - get points - don't risk anything! And he does that - really well - and totally understated when doing it. That's why I think he's not considered a "top" driver. To think back to CoTA 3 years ago when williams had just radically changed their cars to assist with setup he overtook around the outside of turn 3/4. Brilliant move - much like Max at Spa around the outside. But he's only been allowed to show his aggressiveness that one time at williams. Williams (rightly so) kept him on a short leash just for points - for year end constructor money.

    If he's told to keep position (as I expect he was) he'll catch up but not pass. He's only got a year contract so he may need to toe the line for x number of times but he's in front of Lewis after the first lap then he'll really show what he can do if he needs to. I think this because I think Merc has come to an agreement with their drivers: first person after turn 1 (or quali) gets the nod - second gets to tow the company line. I think this was also why Lewis' setup was so quali focused and not very good during the race.

    Back to original question though: I don't think Lewis was happy with the tires - but I think it was a setup issue - not really a tire issue - but the setup made him "damage" his tires quicker than he thought - hence the early pit stop that was the primary reason for him losing the GP.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidgeBack View Post
    I think hamilton plays mind games with the radio. He always says things like: my tires are going off - then sets a fastest lap etc.

    "Hamilton mind games" is an oxymoron, with all the subtly and deception displayed by one of Chris Hansen's interviewees on To Catch a Predator.


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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidgeBack View Post
    treatise


    ^More great insight, as usual. It's sort of a catch-22 with Merc: Toe the company line, fall in place and notch solid points every race weekend and you don't have the opportunity to distinguish yourself as a superior driver. But aggressiveness and independent driving can also get you fired at the end of the season. I guess quali and the first lap is where it's all decided.

    Makes you appreciate an outfit like RBR where a more independent, anti-authoritarian streak is more tolerated, and even rewarded (read: Max).
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoldUlysses View Post
    I guess quali and the first lap is where it's all decided.
    And that's the problem with the new aero - the washout from being behind someone, save for Ferrari apparently, is going to lead to a lot of boring races if teams can't figure out a way to get next to and around people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan M3 View Post
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    That's my concern now with being unable to follow cars closely behind in the dirty air. Also, noticed only one tyre stop for the entire race.

    I mean this was the first race. It was a good race but less number of overtakes than we've had before. DRS didn't help a lot on the back straight unless if you are very very very close or if the car in front of you has a technical problem or are on very old tyres. I'm hoping tracks like China and Bahrain can bring something different to the game. I'm sure teams have learnt a lot from this race and with more updates they can figure out something.



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    Quote Originally Posted by m3fuz View Post
    And that's the problem with the new aero - the washout from being behind someone, save for Ferrari apparently, is going to lead to a lot of boring races if teams can't figure out a way to get next to and around people.
    Ferrari will still have the issue - it'll just only be 90%/95% as bad - not 100% like for everyone else. However, I could easily be wrong with my thoughts about their bargeboards/aero.

    I still think the cars will be difficult to follow closely round corners. Probably more difficult than last year - because of the exceptionally strong aero, super complicated front wings (still needed to divert air to where it serves aero purposes the best), and much lower rear wings (with larger diffusers) thus disturbing the airflow lower behind the car. Which then invalidates the complexity of the front wing - thus seriously reducing downforce across the entire following car/s. Causing tires to be worn more quickly. All of this makes following drivers stay .8+ seconds behind the car in front to preserve aero and tires etc.

    Example: Cars in quali that were 1 second faster than others found it nigh on impossible to overtake (even with DRS) in the race. However Albert park has short straights so it's possible that given longer straights with longer DRS sections that cars will still overtake. Proper oldschool overtakes will still take a little planning in advance - like cleaning up the the braking zone off line etc. But F1 has always been like that.

    Overtakes where people are on different strategies (car out on 20 lap softs gets passed by car on 2 lap ultras etc) will still happen but the tire strategies will be slightly narrowed due to the durability of the new tires.

    If the new Super Soft tire was 1 second a lap quicker than a Medium and time in pits was 20 seconds then a car could do a SS + SS instead of M but track position is critical (due to the difficulty in following/passing) and therefore the top teams will rather go for the single M stop instead of the extra stop for another set of SS. This further narrows down overtaking opertunities/strategies.

    Anyway, it's just speculation until we see more races from the various track types and see how Pirelli and going to be choosing tires per GP. If they give the option of US, SS, and Hards (mandatory to use 2 types) then it may spice up the strategies. But offering tires that are closely matched in lap time is going to lead to more conservative/fewer strategies.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3fuz View Post
    And that's the problem with the new aero - the washout from being behind someone, save for Ferrari apparently, is going to lead to a lot of boring races if teams can't figure out a way to get next to and around people.
    Ferrari really do seem to have something the others don't, in as far as aero. The car appears to be very gentle with tires. Early on, Seb stayed quite close to Lewis, for a period of time that would have cooked last year's tires, with seemingly no ill effect.

    That said, I do think the timing of the pit call was the primary catalyst for the win. Lewis being unable to get around Max gave Seb the extra second he needed to squeak out in front.

    Enjoyable, either way. The cars do appear to be able to handle much more lateral G. Think it was what... turns 11 and 12, maybe: the cars looked like they were darting through that section with 2004-style directional changes.

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    Yeah, I think during one of the FP sessions a comparison was shown about lateral g-forces between 2016 and 2017 cars at certain turns. The 2016 were registering 3.6G's while the current cars were around 4.7G's which is insane. The cars do look fast in high speed corners.



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    I like how fast the new cars are, but I just don't see much passing this year with the aero changes and wider cars. Unfortunately, I think races will be won in qualifying and pit strategy.

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    Or who takes the first turn and lead the race.

    Or call out the safety car.



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