Aftermarket subframe bushings?

[M52 POWER!]

Has anyone tried using any of the aftermarket subframe bushings on the market? I am hesitant to do so since if they fail it'd be major PITA to replace but the cost savings is tempting! Meyle and Febi make these.

EDIT

Let me be more specific, OEM style aftermarket bushings is what I'm researching.

[LockDots]

You'd be the first. Don't even bother searching.

[TostitoBandito]

Lol ^

[M52 POWER!]

Sigh... I actually did but apparently didn't do a very good job. Lots of people saying run from powerflex, akg is awesome, and just keep it OE discussons. Never once did a OEM equivalent thread pop up.

[LockDots]

I kid, I kid. Depends what you're going after as far as feel of the car when deciding between poly and rubber. As for aftermarket rubber replacements I'm sure that if you went with OEM replacements over OE it would be the same thing with a smaller price tag. That being said, Im not positive who the subframe bushing manufacturer is, but I'm willing to be it's Lemforder.

[cohny]

I just purchased a mixed set of Febi and Genuine BMW bushings for the rear subframe for my suspension rebuild. Febi supplies some OE components to BMW and I've had no problems at all with their mounts I've installed on my E39. I've heard that Meyle HD products are good, but their regular line isn't. I don't have any personal experience though.

To be honest though, OE subframe bushings aren't very expensive in comparison to their OEM counterparts, and if FCP had had all four OE at the time I probably would have just gone ahead and gotten those.

[kevinwilly]

As far as rubber bushings go, I understand that the BMW ones will cost like 160 bucks and the febi ones are like 30. That's for all four.

I got a febi guibo yesterday and it was made by the same company that makes the BMW one. A lot of companies like Febi and Vaico just take overrun stuff from BMW, scrape the logo off, and resell it. But they also sometimes make and sell their own products which are pretty inferior by comparison.

The subframe bushings are one that are SO much of a pain to replace that I wouldn't be willing to take the risk. If it was a front control arm bushing or a trailing arm bushing or shock mount or something that only takes an hour to change out, I'd do it to try and save 100 bucks.

But when it's a 6-8 hour job to change four bushings? GOD NO. I hope I never have to go back in and replace my rear subframe bushings, dude. It's such a pain.

[mitch500]

I got BMW rears and febi front subframe bushings. I will be installing this week, I'll let you know the quality.


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[cohny]

As far as rubber bushings go, I understand that the BMW ones will cost like 160 bucks and the febi ones are like 30. That's for all four.

I got a febi guibo yesterday and it was made by the same company that makes the BMW one. A lot of companies like Febi and Vaico just take overrun stuff from BMW, scrape the logo off, and resell it. But they also sometimes make and sell their own products which are pretty inferior by comparison.

The subframe bushings are one that are SO much of a pain to replace that I wouldn't be willing to take the risk. If it was a front control arm bushing or a trailing arm bushing or shock mount or something that only takes an hour to change out, I'd do it to try and save 100 bucks.

But when it's a 6-8 hour job to change four bushings? GOD NO. I hope I never have to go back in and replace my rear subframe bushings, dude. It's such a pain.

I totally hear you. I had two guys from work and a 15 ton press and we still had trouble getting them out. We had to cut blocks and tubes of all shapes to support the subframe under the press, and we were bending things left and right. It is unbelievable how hard they are to remove. My coworkers aren't bmw guys and were skeptical, but afterwards they were just amazed. I have to say though, in the end I am very satisfied with the fact that I went OEM over poly. I think there are just some parts that should remain so on a street car.

[rajicase]

You guys work too hard.
I take a propane torch and hit the bushings with it. They literally fall out on their own.......

I run 75d poly subframe bushings and 95a diff bushings and love them. No increased harshness, minimal increase in noise from the diff. Feels a lot better than OE bushings for spirited driving.

[kevinwilly]

You guys work too hard.
I take a propane torch and hit the bushings with it. They literally fall out on their own.......

I run 75d poly subframe bushings and 95a diff bushings and love them. No increased harshness, minimal increase in noise from the diff. Feels a lot better than OE bushings for spirited driving.

But that's compared to your old, busted ass rubber bushings. I PROMISE you that brand new rubber bushings will give you a better ride and just as much control as your aftermarket bushings. It's absolutely AMAZING how nice these cars drive and how well they handle with new bushings under them.

[rajicase]

But that's compared to your old, busted ass rubber bushings. I PROMISE you that brand new rubber bushings will give you a better ride and just as much control as your aftermarket bushings. It's absolutely AMAZING how nice these cars drive and how well they handle with new bushings under them.

Rubber bushings will not keep my subframe and diff planted the same way as a hard poly with 500+ whp.

It's about preventing movement with the added torque from a turbo.

[mitch500]

I tried burning mine out which didn't work worth shit with a propane torch. So I then drilled out the centre and then tried to burn out, which also didn't work.

I then used my 12 ton press with a variety of pipes and finally they pressed out with much resistance.

Last night I pressed in the new rubber subframe bushings and those were cake to go in. Probably took me 20-30mins.


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[BenjaminG@TMS]

If your running a 500+ HP E36 then you don't want to consider anything else other than solid aluminum mounts throughout the whole driveline. Anytime your going to put any solid mount in the car there can no longer be any stock/rubber components in connection or there will be so much more stress implemented on those components they would fail in a few months.

Here is a link to all the solid bushings you would need for your turbo E36, unless your looking to go with a poly bushing set....usually not recommended.
https://www.turnermotorsport.com/Car...esrep=bgannett

Let me know what you think,

[M52 POWER!]

Thanks for all the input guys. BTW I am putting a S54 in my car and with supporting mods I expect 380HP, (~315WHP). I am leaning towards AKG street subframe bushings but it's good to know that Febi is equivalent quality.

[BenjaminG@TMS]

Ohh ok so that's not too crazy, sorry I thought yours was going to be 500+ HP. S54 swapped E36 you should be just fine with any of the HD rubber bushings if you would really like to keep an awesome comfortable ride. You could do poly bushings, the only thing we see in New England with those is with the fluctuating temperatures and the grime on the roads they tend to be noisy and sometimes can crack over time. While rubber bushings might not last as long, they are great if it is just going to be a street car.

[PITT M3 RR]

Aluminum Subframe / 95A diff similar to raj. Had them in with the M52 and the S54. Car feels perfect and the aluminum isn't a maintenance item now. No added NVH that I can tell...as a matter of fact it was good for the elimination of the worn items allowing stuff to klunk around

[NeilM]

You guys work too hard.
I take a propane torch and hit the bushings with it. They literally fall out on their own.

That's because many people think you have to "burn out the bushings" — wrong. You don't apply direct heat to the bushing itself.

Here's why. In addition to the main rubber mass, the original bushings have an outer metal sleeve with a thin layer of rubber over it. When installing them you can lube the rubber (using dish soap and water, never anything oily) so that they're fairly straightforward to press in, but that doesn't work to remove the originals. Instead you use a torch to heat up the metal ring on the subframe into which the bushing is pressed. When the thin outer layer of rubber on the bushing melts and starts to smoke just a little the bushing can easily be pushed out with a screwdriver.

In this photo I've got a puller on the bushing to provide some preload to get it moving when the rubber starts to melt, but that's only because I happen to have a puller (BTW, that's an RTAB puller):

DSC00593-sm.jpg

See how cleanly the bushing comes out:

DSC00597-sm.jpg

A MAPP gas torch (yellow cylinder) works better than propane for this because it puts out more heat. Of course you'll need to refinish the subframe after torching it, but you'd be doing that while it's off the car anyhow, right?

Regarding the choice of bushings. The stock bushing is comfortable and works well, but doesn't last forever and is harder to change out than aftermarket poly bushings. But face it, at this point in the life cycle of a car last produced in 1999, a new stock pattern bushing is going to last the remaining useful life of almost any M3. It's still the best choice unless you want stiffer bushings for track or auto-X, in which case poly is the next step.

Aftermarket poly bushings are available in various hardnesses, from similar to stock to much stiffer. Revshift makes some decent ones (https://www.revshift.com/product-p/psb-e36.htm) and so does PowerFlex (Bimmerworld has these). Note that the flimsy washer issue with the PowerFlex was fixed by them several years ago, so that's no longer a consideration.

I don't recommend and won't use the AKG bushings because they have a defective design due to the lack of a central metal sleeve for the mounting bolts to tighten against. Don't know why they did that when their other bushings have one, but that's not my problem.

After that come solid bushings, either Delrin (a rigid engineering plastic) or aluminum. These are harsh and noisy and not for most people. If you do need solid bushings like these, well, you already know who you are and don't need my advice!

Lastly I'd resist the temptation to install harder diff mount bushings unless you're building an all-out track car. There's microscopic benefit in them and all the NVH downside in the world. Just make sure your stock diff bushings are in good shape.

Neil

[rajicase]

Good advice, I thought it was common sense to apply the head to the outer metal bushing housing, but I can see where the confusion can come from.
Propane worked fine for me, MAPP gas is no longer and hasn't been the "real" stuff for years. MAPP pro is all that is available now. It burns like ~30 degrees hotter than propane or something, its really negligible. A lot of people are unaware of this as they brand and package it identically to the "real" stuff, but it is not.