LS vs JZ vs FI BMW pros/cons

[tptrsn]

In that theme, I guess we know what it takes to get a 1 or 2J up to 400whp. What does it take to get an LS to that level? It gets pretty pricey I think, doesn't it? If I'm thinking correctly about it, that is heads and cam territory?

[doktor b]

Bart (Inflame) is around 378whp on his 'GM hot cam'med LS1.
to get to 400wheel, you'll need 5.7 or 6.0 litres, a cam, a great tune, LS6 intake (or better), and valve springs.
with a swap, you're gonna run longtubes anyway, so I didn't bring that up.
I'm at 350wheel with a low compression 5.3 and poorly ported, and massively milled heads and a cam. My next set of heads alone should be good for at least 25hp. Stock rotating assembly LM4 5.3L.

[protomor]

I have a stock LS2 and I have dynojet numbers at 370whp and 396wtq. I feel like that's basically "400whp". Most of the cheaper LS engines just need a better set of heads. Which sounds expensive but are much cheaper than you think because they don't have cams in them.

[welchct]

Yeah, it's really easy to make 400 wheel with LS3 or LQ9 heads, a cam and a good tune.

[Novablue454]

PLATFORM WAR!!!

This thread is just about as interesting as I had hoped it would be, although I guess the question remains pretty open for me so far. A 1 or 2JZ with a boost controller can make what, about 400 wheel? That's not bad, especially with the reliability and thrashability they seem to have. If I had one I'd undoubtedly throw a $250-$400 china turbo on a couple hundred dollar china exhaust manifold, and then I guess they can make around 450-500 wheel on the factory ECU? If so, that is pretty awesome bang for buck.

A cheapo end LS build that would make more than stock is a question mark for me as far as output. If I were to do an LS build it would be cheapo, I would go small and revvy like DokB, but cheapskate. So I'd grab whatever Gen4 4.8 or 5.3 I could get nearby for cheap, or if I could get a really cheap Gen3 something, I'd get that and some eBay Gen4 rods. Then I'd throw the "Sloppy Stage 2" cam in it and some decent valvesprings. All that is cool, but then you need a low-profile intake manifold and *maybe* a set of front end accessories off of a F-body or Vette? For me this is where the allure of the LS starts to fall apart a little bit, especially since you're probably at something like 350 wheel? Especially again since it seems like for drifting or road racing you really need at least a windage tray.

Of course, at that point for $1500 more or thereabout, you could throw together a turbo setup good for about 700-800whp. But then, for a grand more than we were at on the JZ build, it seems like they could be in that same power range... Right? If so, I think maybe they are still winning for bang for the buck, and I confess I love the sound they make more than I love the LS sound these days unless the LS is revving like a mutha.

How about this, which one is better to work on? Plugs are much easier to quickly pull on the JZ engine, or is there something goofy about their coils that makes them a pain? The plumbing around the engine MUST be nicer to deal with on the vertical standing straight 6...

Sorry for all of the rambling, and thank you in advance for playing along, haha.

That's why you just start with an actual LS, or if you're going super cheapo then you just cut your hood for the truck intake haha. As far as working on the LS goes, at least in the E46 chassis it isn't terrible. Plugs are a bit tricky but totally doable. I was able to pull my heads and install ARP head studs with the engine in

[Novablue454]

In that theme, I guess we know what it takes to get a 1 or 2J up to 400whp. What does it take to get an LS to that level? It gets pretty pricey I think, doesn't it? If I'm thinking correctly about it, that is heads and cam territory?

I did ported and polished heads, oversize valves, cam, milled my heads and installed a thinner headgasket to bump up CR, and some small reliability stuff. I should be at about 400whp. Keep in mind I am at 5300' elevation. Cam choice also makes a big difference. Jeepster has a similar build to mine (his is a 383) and he made 480-490whp with his first cam, but didn't like the powerband so swapped it for a torquier one (same one I got) and it dropped the power to 420whp but with a much better torque curve. That's the NA route to 400, or you can spend probably $2000 piecing together a turbo kit, throw it on a untouched LM and make 500+ but who knows for how long.

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Yeah, it's really easy to make 400 wheel with LS3 or LQ9 heads, a cam and a good tune.

aren't LS3 heads square port? From what I've always understood the LS6 (243) heads are the best OEM head for the irons and earlier LS

[protomor]

Plugs are tricky in the E46? They're stupid simple in my E30.

[Press22]

Pics for quick reference?

[protomor]

Apparently I don't take many pix of my engine bay. Here's the best shot I could find. Only bad one is (obviously) around the brake master. The passenger's side has nothing in the way.
https://www.instagram.com/p/-60Z7LzASe/

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[tptrsn]

Damn, that's not bad. Chalk up one more mark in the positive column for the LS.

Last night after the discussion of the 400whp benchmark popped up, I started thinking about what I'm currently slapping together. If I don't blow up the slushbox right away, and start feeling like the setup might be somewhat reliable, maybe I will see what is required (in terms of bewstage) to make the 400whp ballpark.

I will have very little money in this bastard. If it could make a reasonably reliable 400 wheel (especially through the slushbox), then it would make any swap look kind of ridiculous unless the goal was bigger numbers, or more pleasing sounds/coolness. Of course that last part applies equally to both of the swaps this thread is about, since some people really love the howl of a JZ, and some people really love the roar of an LS. IMO, that truly is a personal preference thing with no way to argue about it.

[doktor b]

If noise is the primary qualifier, nothing beats a strung out RB.
#justsayin

[protomor]

I honestly am VERY tired of hearing JZs and LS'. It's so mundane at this point. I'm still not bored of the RB sound. But I go for function over form no matter what.

Ignore the crap driving (3 year hiatus + 3x power = poo driving) in the video but here's my S52 turbo. I think it sounds sexy town.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw0PzpYFZfw

[tptrsn]

Got any exterior footage of that? I know Mike's car sounds fantastic on video, and I suppose yours might sound pretty similar?

[Novablue454]

tptrsn, you have to remember the E46 got dual vanos engines, where as the E36 was single and the single is much much better for adding boost and making power.

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I mean they aren't bad by any means. It's the CX racing headers that make you get a tad creative, but its nothing 2 u joints doesn't take care of. I'd much rather do plugs on my LS then on a Subaru any day

[Novablue454]

I like the way my LS sounds

[protomor]

Got any exterior footage of that? I know Mike's car sounds fantastic on video, and I suppose yours might sound pretty similar?

Nah... that was basically my only run before it caught fire (oil feed spewing on manifold) and I never drove that motor again. It's a long and sad story. I over engineered it. That's why I love my bone stock LS2. But a turbo M/S5x sounds like a turbo M/S5x.

tptrsn, you have to remember the E46 got dual vanos engines, where as the E36 was single and the single is much much better for adding boost and making power.

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I mean they aren't bad by any means. It's the CX racing headers that make you get a tad creative, but its nothing 2 u joints doesn't take care of. I'd much rather do plugs on my LS then on a Subaru any day

Dual vanos motors are just bad from an engine management perspective. That's at least what kills it for me. You can just pick up a chip or a DME tune for E36s.

Don't bring subarus into this. That's like comparing a hang nail to a severed finger.

[tptrsn]

I like the way my LS sounds

Yours does sound killer! Do you know that MotionAutoTV guy? He seems to have switched from LS to 2JZ and show no intention of going back.

Nah... that was basically my only run before it caught fire (oil feed spewing on manifold) and I never drove that motor again. It's a long and sad story.

Something to cheer you up



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Hope that cheers you up as much as it did me! Lol

[Novablue454]

you mean this guy? This is Jeepster, Me, and Motion shredding the local cart track

14632802_1798727160375884_3739523357481297041_n.jpg

Funny, I had no idea he was ever LS

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this video does it no justice, but this guy is local and has the sickest sounding car. It's a something jay z

[beat328i]

but here's my S52 turbo. I think it sounds sexy town.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw0PzpYFZfw

I completely agree that turbo bmw motors sound awesome, definitely underrated in the e-fame department.

I like the way my LS sounds

It's ok Justin, your Camaro sounds just fine!

[Press22]

2JZ's sound kinda boring. 1JZ's sound better, tune it a little rich for exciting butt puckering backfires.
*wait for it* or skip to :35 seconds


I may be the minority on this but I like how turbo rotaries sound the most lol.

[tptrsn]

Some turbo rotaries sound phenomenal to me too! I just am not comfortable with knowing that I could build one, so I don't give them much thought...

I'll have to see if I can tune my overrun area rich and super retarded on the timing to see if I can get some 1980's F1 car bangety bangs with RomRaider, lol.

[e30polak]

Depends on your budget and goals for the car, all 3 are great platforms. The LS will always have the advantage of early available torque due to displacement. If you properly gear a lighter car, with a properly set-up LS, than it will have power everywhere.

As for 1/2JZ vs m/s50/2 turbo, if you have an m/s5x already in the car, than a 1/2J is a total waste IMO. The BMW 24v engine is right on par with the 2J, especially an s52b32 turbo. If twins were easy to fit on an m/s5x, than 2 GEN-2 gtx2860rs, or 2 EFR 6758s would be absolutely nutty on e85!

[Press22]

As for 1/2JZ vs m/s50/2 turbo, if you have an m/s5x already in the car, than a 1/2J is a total waste IMO.

[protomor]

Some turbo rotaries sound phenomenal to me too!

I like you less now.

[Press22]

https://www.instagram.com/p/mvfiQ1nc...ydomenechdrift

How you don't like that noise is beyond me hehehe. /jk I know different strokes different folks