Battery died!

[spikec]

MIKYZZ4 -- Thumbs up on the clogged cats. Not sure if its related to the OP's ASC-T issue, but it causes all sorts of issues. It's something I dragged my feet on due to the replacement cost, but fortunately there are after-market options that work like a champ nowadays. Maybe not in CA though...

[veeonfire]

INPA.pdfSo I have captured some information from INPA but am not an expert at reading the results. There are two sets on the attached pdf - one on startup, and the other after a 20-30 minute drive.I notice the air values are a bit high (air leak that I am aware of from before but did not cause the current problem), and the cylinder 6 is not running smooth (lead or spark plug to be checked).Any other clues as to why the ASC light remains and although the car seems to rev OK, it is slow as s**t!CATs only 12-18 months old sports CATs - do they go that quick? and why just after a battery dead issue?Many thanks

[Timm]

Unfortunately you missed the bit we were looking for - whether the throttle potentiometer works properly. To do that you don't need the engine running but the ignition needs to be on. You need to watch the screen while you press the throttle and make sure the 'throttle potentiometer' slider moves in response to the pedal.

The other thing is that the MAF may not be working correctly - did you drive the car with the MAF disconnected?

The results look OK, nothing noticeably bad....

[veeonfire]

The MAF was plugged in during the readings that were taken - if I unplug it the car stalls soon after. What is it that shows the MAF is faulty? I know she has an air leak at then inlet manifold that I need to deal with but is only slight.
I will test the potentiometer again with the ignition only on. Do I depress all the way( including the kick down button )?

[Timm]

Try to keep it running with the MAF unplugged and go for a drive. To see the action of the throttle just keep live data open on the laptop and depress the pedal and see if the on-screen slider follows your movements - the engine does not need to be running. MAF reading at idle and cold was miles out...

[MIKYZZ4]

Unfortunately you missed the bit we were looking for - whether the throttle potentiometer works properly. To do that you don't need the engine running but the ignition needs to be on. You need to watch the screen while you press the throttle and make sure the 'throttle potentiometer' slider moves in response to the pedal.

The other thing is that the MAF may not be working correctly - did you drive the car with the MAF disconnected?

The results look OK, nothing noticeably bad....

Check that the throttle is operating properly through its full range, it's important.
If it checks out, then I suggest swapping out the MAF, and if that checks out, have an exhaust backpressure test performed, since easy to perform.

[veeonfire]

throttle.pdf

Please see attached - The throttle slider does not go all the way to 5 when the accelerator is fully depressed. It hits around 3.2, just under 2 at half way and 0.45 when not applied. Are these correct? I noticed that the slider has a few seconds lag between pressing the pedal and it moving up in value.
Also, I haven't had a chance to drive with the MAF disconnected yet but have noticed the 'total air consumption HLM' is at 20 even with the car not on?

- - - Updated - - -

Just wanted to add that that is where I notice the lack of response, after about half way - not much power going through

[Timm]

The throttle readings look fine - try running with the MAF disconnected.......

[veeonfire]

I tried running the car with the MAF disconnected and at first she would cut out as soon as I disconnected it. I managed to keep her going by slightly adding revs whilst disconnecting and she managed to stay alive during idle. After that, attempted to drive but couldn't even get her off my driveway. In gear (D), as I add RPMs I get no response, revs not increasing well, car just trying to move at 1-2mph - tried this a few times.
Connect the MAF back and she drives again but as before only around half the power you would expect.
ASC light still on.
In Park you can rev her up just fine.
I am really not sure what is going on here...?

[Timm]

This is a difficult problem to solve - electrical problems caused by jump-starting do not necessarily respond to the usual methods of test-and-repair. As you said earlier, if the car hardly runs at all with the MAF disconnected that usually points to a faulty throttle-position sensor (TPS). The problem is that the tests you did with INPA showed that it (appeared) to work correctly - but I think at this point I would source a second hand one - try my friend Dash (say I sent you):

e31parts@gmx.co.uk

He may well split the TPS from the throttle body, other sellers may not and you will have to buy the complete throttle body. I think second hand is the way to go, but if that fixes it then get a new one from BMW. Device pictured here:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...34#13631721456

As I said, this is an unusual problem but we still need to go through the normal test-and-repair routine as we have nothing else to go on!

[veeonfire]

Thanks Timm - will try Dash for the TPS on its own. Is it something that could be done DIY i.e., without taking out the complete throttle assembly?
Does anything require recalibrating once the new one is fitted?

[Timm]

Held on by one Torx bolt I believe (never changed one), no calibration needed!

[veeonfire]

Hi

So I contacted Dash and managed to get hold of a second hand TPS which I fitted today.
As you will see from the attached values the throttle potentiometer values are only slightly better with the pedal fully depressed (3.87? - not sure what it should go to on max)

Car still drives sluggish - lots of revs but not much speed
I still have the ASC light on and the same errors in INPA (38 position sensor ADS part).
Have I missed something somewhere? A flat battery causing this much grief?

Attached INPA results from this afternoon -

840 INPA - new.pdf

Not sure where to go from here other than my local Indy who I am sure will have me change every control unit in the car!!

[Timm]

That's an interesting comment - lots of revs but not much speed - if you are in Drive and you have lots of revs you should have lots of acceleration! If you have lots of revs and little acceleration then you are in 4th gear. I know that we have discussed this before, but are you sure you are not stuck in 4th gear?

[MIKYZZ4]

The battery voltage is a bit low, maybe an overnight slow charge,
Coupled with a reset of adaptations, might improve results.
Fresh trannyfluid and filter couldn't hurt at this point.

[veeonfire]

Definitely not stuck in fourth - she's the same if you put her into sports or manual shift.
I did try resetting adaptations previously but didn't make much difference.
Havent replaced batteries yet - guess I thought they were OK since I have been driving her again.
Do you think I should replace them anyway?

- - - Updated - - -

Out of interest - what should the TPS reading be at flat out?

[MIKYZZ4]

As long as they can be charged up overnight and be at 100% of charge 12.4~12.7v,
and hold that charge, by not requiring jump-starts, they shouldn't require replacement.
Of course if they are aged well past an average lifespan of 5-7yrs, then replacement wouldn't be a bad thing.
Not saying for sure, but as was previously posted-jump-starts aren't recommended, due to the number of computers contained in the vehicle.
Which has me suspecting maybe the ECU/DME or possibly the EGS unit was damaged.
Maybe a trip to a BMW dealer would be warranted in this case, if only for a diagnosis,
as they have computers and equipment that can communicate with your vehicle.

[veeonfire]

Have read the engine and gearbox using INPA which throw up no codes at all.
Just the ASC under the chassis section throwing error 38 as above.
Voltage is always around 11.7 on startup so yes a little lower than normal and the batteries are over 5 years old.

[bmw528e11]

INPA.pdfSo I have captured some information from INPA but am not an expert at reading the results. There are two sets on the attached pdf - one on startup, and the other after a 20-30 minute drive.I notice the air values are a bit high (air leak that I am aware of from before but did not cause the current problem), and the cylinder 6 is not running smooth (lead or spark plug to be checked).Any other clues as to why the ASC light remains and although the car seems to rev OK, it is slow as s**t!CATs only 12-18 months old sports CATs - do they go that quick? and why just after a battery dead issue?Many thanks

On this attachment, what happened to cylinder #6 on page smoothness? Do the smoothness change when it's idling on cold or hot?

[Timm]

It's time to disconnect the ASC+T module - and I'll be passing through Hertfordshire on the 29th if you are around!

This is the bit that makes me think it is worth disconnecting:

Ignition timing adjustment (ZWV):
In the same way as the function in DME M1.7, the ignition timing is retarded when ASC is activated

From:

http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e32/bmw_e32_dme_33.pdf

(for DME 3.3, but 5.7 uses the same methods)

[veeonfire]

Interesting read - but we did try disconnecting the ASC unit (passenger footwell area under the plastic trim) previously which made no difference to the performance of the car. When disconnected both ASC and ABS warning lights came up but the car behaved the same. Do you still want me to disconnect it, as we have put in another TPS (its not that easy to get to..!)

@BMW527e11 - the smoothness on cyl 6 is not that high anymore - see results from yesterday 4 and 6 run between 2-300

- - - Updated - - -

Forgot to mention that I did also try some of the things that were suggested previously - disconnecting MAF still causes the car to stall, and is not driveable with it disconnected.

- - - Updated - - -

@Timm - I am trying to get her ready for Duxford on the 30th which is why I imagine you are in the area on the 29th? Would be great to meet up!

[Timm]

Yes, I'll be staying in Duxford on the 29th and attending the show the next day - so, if you can get the car to limp there then we can have a good look at it....

[veeonfire]

Anything else I can look at or do in the meantime?

[Timm]

Yes, get a pair of new batteries ready......

[veeonfire]

Are these the correct ones for the car?

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/ca...1006&0&cc5_996

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/ca...1007&0&cc5_996

I can get them cheaper than the prices on Euro car parts but just wanted to confirm they are the correct ones.