Fuel Distributor Source

[kevinr1247]

99% sure it's the in tank pump. I can hear it squirting air too and if I kind of mash on the hose coming out of the pump, to put it under some strain, the sound becomes much more pronounced.

[mxl556]

My point was that you do not need a working in-tank pump to have your car run normally. To me, it sounds like you are getting air in somewhere through the hoses going into a main pump. That may have overheated the 1st replacement pump and killed it...

Max

[kevinr1247]

Possibly. Not certain on that. I tightened all the hoses down again on and around the new pump to make sure there were no issues there. But I may have missed something. I'm hoping that the in-tank pump is where the air is coming in. Sounds like that may have been an issue for some on this thread. I think it is the in-tank pump because when I did my little test by pushing on the hose coming from the in-tank pump it did seem to suck in more air as the pump was strained.

Got the new in-tank pump today from "Autoplicity." Can't say I'd order from them again. $10 to ship and took 10 days to arrive. Slow. Plus they sent me the wrong carrier but the right tracking number so I had to call. Error on their side and attitude on the phone, as if I was somehow an inconvenience as I wasted 15 minutes.

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[epmedia]

I have to ask: you replaced "all three" hoses that connect to the metal "T" on the suction side of the main fuel pump, correct?

[kevinr1247]

I have to ask: you replaced "all three" hoses that connect to the metal "T" on the suction side of the main fuel pump, correct?

Correct.

[kevinr1247]

In fact the in-tank fuel pump was the culprit. No more air bubbles and a quiet and happy fuel pump. And had a good drive yesterday. The weather here in eastern Oregon is finally starting to take a positive turn.

All's good except...

- the fuel sender is now kaput, so I ordered another one. It's been acting funky since I've owned the car. As I mentioned the car sat for a good while and before that was driven little. The car only has 127k on it.

But here's the other thing which is why I started this process to begin with. I believe I spoke too soon when I mentioned the cold starting issue. It still takes about four tries to get it going. I know the cold-start injector is recent. It does fire on each crank, but it's not getting enough fuel for the engine to stay running. So I know it's getting that initial squirt of fuel. I also know that there are no vacuum leaks. It was smoke tested by a local mechanic.

Now that all the hoses have been replaced, fuel filter, fuel pumps, tanks cleaned...what direction do I look next? Or what should I try to diagnose? I'd really like this old e21 to fire on the first crank when cold. When it's warm it fires right up, no problem.

[autox320]

Not to damper on your win, but airtex is a terrible pump known for issues. Fingers crossed for ya. My local parts distributor guy doesn't carry them anymore due to return/failed issues.

[kevinr1247]

Not to damper on your win, but airtex is a terrible pump known for issues. Fingers crossed for ya. My local parts distributor guy doesn't carry them anymore due to return/failed issues.

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath. The cheap fuel pump I bought prior....see earlier in thread....lasted all of two minutes.

[epmedia]

In fact the in-tank fuel pump was the culprit. No more air bubbles and a quiet and happy fuel pump. And had a good drive yesterday. The weather here in eastern Oregon is finally starting to take a positive turn.

All's good except...

- the fuel sender is now kaput, so I ordered another one. It's been acting funky since I've owned the car. As I mentioned the car sat for a good while and before that was driven little. The car only has 127k on it.

But here's the other thing which is why I started this process to begin with. I believe I spoke too soon when I mentioned the cold starting issue. It still takes about four tries to get it going. I know the cold-start injector is recent. It does fire on each crank, but it's not getting enough fuel for the engine to stay running. So I know it's getting that initial squirt of fuel. I also know that there are no vacuum leaks. It was smoke tested by a local mechanic.

Now that all the hoses have been replaced, fuel filter, fuel pumps, tanks cleaned...what direction do I look next? Or what should I try to diagnose? I'd really like this old e21 to fire on the first crank when cold. When it's warm it fires right up, no problem.

Glad the in-tank pump sorted out the bubbles/cavitation.

Related to cold running; maybe the inlet filter on the WUR is dirty. You can try cleaning it, or first test the fuel pressures with a k-jet pressure tester. Or, hows the engine tune up items?

[kevinr1247]

Glad the in-tank pump sorted out the bubbles/cavitation.

Related to cold running; maybe the inlet filter on the WUR is dirty. You can try cleaning it, or first test the fuel pressures with a k-jet pressure tester. Or, hows the engine tune up items?

Well I'm back at it....slight delay with work BS. And wow, so nice having a fuel sender that works. That in-tank fuel filter even with the sound deadening is kind of whiney or high pitchy. Slightly annoying.

All the tune up items are recent. The prior owner was diligent about that stuff. So just to reiterate the symptoms. It's definitely getting the squirt of fuel through the cold start injector. Then car promptly dies.

However if on the second try I give it a little gas, it may hold and get going, albeit it's a chug chug chug, until I can get the revs up.

Another thing of interest. If it's warm, after it's been sitting for awhile...40 minutes, it will also sort of chug along as well on the first crank. Too rich?

Now way back at the beginning of this saga I did have a mechanic test the pressure and he said it was low, which caused him to suppose it might be the fuel distributor, hence the title of this thread. So he definitely noted low fuel pressure going to the injectors from the fuel distributor. But as I said once it's going, seems to be fine.

So...inlet filter on the WUR? Carb cleaner I read. Are there some other suggestions that are quick and easy that I can try? Otherwise it looks like digging into the WUR.

[epmedia]

It could be too rich. After a few mild drives around the block... If you swipe the inside of the tailpipe with your finger, does it come out really black, or just a little black, or no black at all?

I forget if you've done any tune-up items; including ignition timing, valve adjust and fuel filter.

[kevinr1247]

It could be too rich. After a few mild drives around the block... If you swipe the inside of the tailpipe with your finger, does it come out really black, or just a little black, or no black at all?

I forget if you've done any tune-up items; including ignition timing, valve adjust and fuel filter.

I think it has gotten a basic tune up before I bought it but don't know for sure on timing and valves. Probably not.

Just a little black, doesn't seem unusual. An additional symptom that I maybe didn't note before was, when the car is warmed up, it does idle at about 1100. When's it's cold it seems to idle just below 1000....normal.

I'm no fuel injection engineer but I can broadly say that temp definitely is a variable in this equation, which leads me to suspect the WUR is not operating properly.

[epmedia]

Is it still chugging like in this video? Reminds me of dirty injectors... The injectors can be back-flushed (see diy/faq thread), also some folks have had some success by just soaking the injectors in seafoam for a couple days. Be sure to get new injector seals if you remove the injectors.

Thought I'd make a little video of what's happening. (God, that chime is obnoxious.)

[kevinr1247]

Is it still chugging like in this video? Reminds me of dirty injectors... The injectors can be back-flushed (see diy/faq thread), also some folks have had some success by just soaking the injectors in seafoam for a couple days. Be sure to get new injector seals if you remove the injectors.

Noted. I'll start with the WUR and see what happens. Then move from there.

I really love this car but I'd like to sell it and I don't want to be handing off this issue. My view with cars has always been pass the car on in better condition than you found it. That's the idea....and also why I never make any money! It's definitely better now than it was but this last little gremlin is the major issue that I think is worth remedying. The car only has 127k and still has a bit of shine to it. Someone will really enjoy taking it to the next stages of awesomeness.

Oh and another improvement, I disconnected the god awful howling in Hades chime. I'm so happy. Starting it up isn't filled with so much terror and treachery now.

[kevinr1247]

Well, the saga continues. So not having the time to tinker with it again, I took it down to the local shop. I just wanted them to clean out the WUR which they said they did. I'm not 100% convinced though, but let's call it done.

When I started the car, it did start with a little more rigor, but it promptly died, which is the whole problem I'm trying to solve in the first place. Okay, so I went with it thinking that maybe it was just a fluke or something and as I said it did start with a noticeable bit of authority that wasn't there before. But the goal is, first crank, I want it to start and I want it to run well.

So I drove it out of the lot, and noticed right away that it was sputtering. (Running too rich?) Okay, I'll just let it warm up a bit and see how it goes. The next thing I noticed was that the tachometer was all over the place, jumping around like crazy....up, then normal....then all over/erratic. So then I started to put the engine under some load, 3k to 5k RPM, and that's where it really started sputtering very hard, kind of lurching a bit, like it was misfiring perhaps or bogging down. Backfiring slightly on deceleration. Also, another issue that's not resolved is the high warm idle.

So I'm wondering if it's just as simple a leaning out the mixture and adjusting the idle lower after it's warmed up. If it's running too rich, would it sputter on hard and high rpm acceleration? I'm afraid these guys might overlook the obvious, and I'm out $$$. Ugh.

Here's the list of stuff they did according to the invoice...

- Gas treatment
- Intake manifold Gasket - 11611727994
- Intake manfold Gasket - 11611727995
- Air Mass Meter Boot - 13511267133
- Air Mass Meter Boot - 13711267145
- Auxiliary Valve Hose Lower - 11611267837
- Auxiliary Valve Hose Lower - 11611270630

NOTES LABOR: Ck and adjust best as possible. Found intake leaking, air meter boots leaking and aux start valve hoses leaking. Need all replaced.
Remove intake manifold and replace intake gaskets and replace air mass meter boot. Reinstall manifold and replace boot to air intake, coolant bypass hoses and both hoses to aux start valve. Add gas treatment.

Any thoughts on a diagnosis now? Thanks again for all the feedback.

[epmedia]

1) Be safe with fuel!

2) I forget if you've tested the accumulator yet...

3) Clean the little filters (if still equipped) under the injector-line banjo bolts on the fuel distributor. note: the filters are hard to see, dry-out the ports for better visual.

4) Test the injectors, backflush if needed.

Refer to the diy/faq thread (2 & 4) and ask questions if needed.

[kevinr1247]

1) Be safe with fuel!

2) I forget if you've tested the accumulator yet...

3) Clean the little filters (if still equipped) under the injector-line banjo bolts on the fuel distributor. note: the filters are hard to see, dry-out the ports for better visual.

4) Test the injectors, backflush if needed.

Refer to the diy/faq thread (2 & 4) and ask questions if needed.

No, I haven't tested the fuel accumulator. It should hold pressure I presume. Forging ahead. Thank you.

Any thoughts on the erratic tachometer?

[epmedia]

No, I haven't tested the fuel accumulator. It should hold pressure I presume. Forging ahead. Thank you.

Any thoughts on the erratic tachometer?

erratic tacho is 'typically' result of the idle fuel mix being adjusted a tad too rich to compensate for a problem related to fuel and/or vacuum.

I forgot to ask if the injector seals were tested for vacuum leaks.

Has the dynamic ignition timing and valve adjustments been looked at yet?

Has the vacuum advance canister been checked for vacuum leak?

[kevinr1247]

erratic tacho is 'typically' result of the idle fuel mix being adjusted a tad too rich to compensate for a problem related to fuel and/or vacuum.

I forgot to ask if the injector seals were tested for vacuum leaks.

Has the dynamic ignition timing and valve adjustments been looked at yet?

Has the vacuum advance canister been checked for vacuum leak?

Additional things to add to the list. The previous owner did have the valves adjusted, but the other stuff....no. I'll follow your list as best as I can get the local mechanic to follow it.

I haven't been focusing on vacuum leaks because the mechanic that looked at the car prior found no leaks with a smoke test supposedly. But apparently there are/were leaks. So...I'll report back as per usual. The car's in such great shape with low miles. I think several years of sitting with old gas in it, hasn't helped the situation. It was driven quite a bit after it sat, but the PO didn't dig into the additional issues.

I was thinking that if the car is running rich under heavier load in particular, that might cause the stuttering. Is that likely? Then that might be a good place to start in solving the tachometer issue and the hesitation. My sense what that it was bogging down.

[winmag4582001]

Do you have an exact breakdown of the fuel and vent lines you used?
My son's 320 has some serious leaks at the gas tank and I was wanting to run all new fuel and vent. His car has the factory hoses in it still.
Thank you

[kevinr1247]

Do you have an exact breakdown of the fuel and vent lines you used?
My son's 320 has some serious leaks at the gas tank and I was wanting to run all new fuel and vent. His car has the factory hoses in it still.
Thank you

Yes. Here's what I ordered fro Belmetric. Worked perfectly.

3 x RH12X18HP - Smooth High Pressure 12x18mm (32411131524) = $67.53
1 x RH6X11HP - Smooth High Pressure 6mm (13311272750) = $12.51

[winmag4582001]

Thank you!

[kevinr1247]

Thank you!

Get 4 feet of the 18mm though. I could have used another foot.

[kevinr1247]

Latest report:

Apparently some compressed air attached to the fuel distributor pushed some black sludgy stuff out. No pics, only a description. Seems bizarre to me given the work that has been done so far.

With regard to the erratic tachometer, the diagnosis came back to the ignition module. Apparently when it was tested it was giving an erratic spark, that burned the coil? So, new coil as well.

It was also pointed out that someone had added and inline fuel filter to the steel braided line going into the fuel distributor. Hmmm I wonder why someone would do that? Cheaper than cleaning out the tanks I bet.

More as news comes available. Stay tuned!

[Thecatmilton]

Apparently some compressed air attached to the fuel distributor pushed some black sludgy stuff out. No pics, only a description. Seems bizarre to me given the work that has been done so far.

With regard to the erratic tachometer, the diagnosis came back to the ignition module. Apparently when it was tested it was giving an erratic spark, that burned the coil? So, new coil as well.

It was also pointed out that someone had added and inline fuel filter to the steel braided line going into the fuel distributor. Hmmm I wonder why someone would do that? Cheaper than cleaning out the tanks I bet.

More as news comes available. Stay tuned!

Hmmm. I thought my tach was bad, but this seems likely too.

I have a fuel distributor if you need it. I am probably never going to need it at this point now that I have a m42.