Fuel Distributor Source

[kevinr1247]

Searching for a fuel distributor for an '82. Still getting oriented to parts suppliers for these little e21 gems. Found CIS Flowtech and requested a quote. Other options? I also found the rebuild kit, but not sure I have the skills for such precision. Advice appreciated.

EDIT: This thread evolved into fuel hoses and fuel pump replacement.

[tlapham]

Before we get too far, what is wrong with your old one?

[epmedia]

Before we get too far, what is wrong with your old one?

Good question. It could be just dirty filters (if still installed) under the injector line banjo bolts on the fuel dist.

Either way, I'm pretty sure there are a few used ones available here(members of this forum), in good working condition.

[kevinr1247]

Before we get too far, what is wrong with your old one?

Ahhhh, the symptoms! Here's what I know. The first thing that the mechanic checked for was vacuum leaks. He did a smoke test and determined that there were none.

Then he checked the pressure coming from the fuel distributor. Now I'm not sure what he did to check this, but the report back to me was as follows. "Car is starting off the cold start injector. The fuel distributor is not putting out enough fuel to the injectors, common for these to gunk up and not put out enough pressure to open injectors. Need to start off by pulling fuel distributor to disassemble and clean."


Here are some additional things that I know:
- when the car is warmed up, there's no trouble starting it up.
- however, when the car is warmed up it idles at about 1100.
- the car did sit for about a year around 2009, before the previous owner bought it and drove it.
- previous owner described....when it's summer and the car is started hot, it acts as though it is running too rich....bogged down.

...perhaps relevant...
- it feels underpowered to me. (the BG44k seems to have given it a little boost though.)
- the fuel filter is recent.
- lines are deteriorating around the tank. The previous owner said don't fill the tank completely. It will leak.
- fuel sender gives inaccurate reading. (obviously there is some fuel related deterioration.)

I'm running some BG44k through the system at the moment. It's a great 127k original mile car. It just needs some TLC to get it to run a bit better.

[epmedia]

I doubt you need a new fuel dist @127k miles with the car somewhat derivable after the engine starts.

Regarding how the engine starts and performance: First Check the 3 pieces of fuel hose that connect to the metal "Y" fitting at the suction side of the external fuel pump. If any of them are the original cloth braided hoses, they are sucking air bubbles and possibly seeping fuel. These hoses are easy to replace.

Afterwards, We'll take it from there, because a few more basic thing to check.

And of course get the other hoses replaced as needed too.

[kevinr1247]

Indeed, the hoses are braided and I imagine original. I'm assuming the larger braided hose runs from the tank to the fuel pump directly and is partly accessible from under the rear seat? And the "Y" is a return from the accumulator?

I'll do some searching the forum for the correct replacement hoses and report back to this thread.

[tlapham]

I doubt you need a new fuel dist @127k miles with the car somewhat derivable after the engine starts.

Regarding how the engine starts and performance: First Check the 3 pieces of fuel hose that connect to the metal "Y" fitting at the suction side of the external fuel pump. If any of them are the original cloth braided hoses, they are sucking air bubbles and possibly seeping fuel. These hoses are easy to replace.

Afterwards, We'll take it from there, because a few more basic thing to check.

And of course get the other hoses replaced as needed too.

+1
Although I would add just replace all the fuel hoses! waay cheaper than a fuel distributor, and any 30+ year old car will need it anyway. I would recommend using high quality fuel hose, not OEM, and not some generic fuel hose from your local auto parts store. I used marine rated fuel line from West Marine, (not sure if you have those around where you are) super heavy duty, about twice the price, but I guarantee nobody will have to change them again in the life of the car.

Yes, replace the lengths from the fuel tank access under the rear seat, to the fuel pump, and in between the pump, filter, and accumulator.

[kevinr1247]

Thought I'd make a little video of what's happening. (God, that chime is obnoxious.)



Also, attached, an image of the top of the fuel tank. It doesn't look like it's seen the light of day since 1982.

IMG_0077.jpg

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3.
4.
5. ...to the fuel pump?
6.
7.

[Thecatmilton]

(God, that chime is obnoxious.)

Unplug one of the spade terminals. The buzzer is a little metal box right by the turn signal switch. Unplugging it was the first thing I did to my car.

[kevinr1247]

Unplug one of the spade terminals. The buzzer is a little metal box right by the turn signal switch. Unplugging it was the first thing I did to my car.

And my prayers are answered! Thank you.

[mxl556]

Hard to believe that the fuel distributor is bad. If there are no vacuum leaks- maybe the mixture adjusted too lean? If you have access to the exhaust analyzer, I'd check the mixture. I would NOT adjust fuel mixture as of now, unless you have access to the exhaust analyzer and is able to set correct CO% at idle ( follow the instructions under the hood - 0.2-1.2% of CO when the engine is hot). I would also check the ignition components (or do a basic tune up), valve adjustment and the ignition timing adjustment. All of it is easy and inexpensive to do and you will cover basics.

As already mentioned by others- replacing all fuel hoses won't hurt. I doubt they cause your cold start/missfire issue. I would use BMW hoses (not OEM, genuine BMW hose- I believe most of these vent hoses are 8x13,the size is commonly used on various BMW's and you can buy it by a meter).
When replacing fuel hoses - check the connections and the condition of the vapor canister (it is located under the battery tray).

Good luck,

Max

[epmedia]

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4.
5. ...to the fuel pump?
6.
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Yes, #5 goes to the (metal) "Y" fitting on the suction side of the external fuel pump. *The external fuel pump is next to the primary fuel filter and accumulator.

[320iAman]

1st Welcome to the Forums.

2nd Commercial Fuel distributor rebuilders there is Larry at CIS Flow Tech and Mike at Fuel Injection Corporation( his wife usually answers the phone) either one of these gets the job done. Mike rebuilt my warm up Regulator with 18 mo warranty and reset one of my computers, Mike White rebuilds fuel pumps,Computers,warm up regulators and fuel distributors for these E21's, both larry and Mike are friendly.

http://www.cisflowtech.com/


http://www.fuelinjectioncorp.com/

3rd Many of us here have rebuild the Fuel Distributors, my rebuild was added by Josh and between his and my rebuild posts everything is covered, step by step.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...Rebuild-How-To

Your car is taking time to build up fuel pressure it seems, this could be the fuel pump and could be the o ring's on the pressure regulator and possibly the fuel accumulator

You really need to do CIS testing, this will tell the condition of the fuel pump, the Fuel distributor, and the Warm up regulator and start closing the loop so as speak on where the problem is. I just did my annual CIS testing and here is the results:

Did CIS testing and here are the results. I have results by years from 2014-2017 -4 years same equipment(wit stepped up timing of power and ground for increased fuel pressure,( newer bigger-big 6-OFC stranded),)--all very close bunched together, nice tight pattern.

Cold Pressure test 22.5 psi
Warm Pressure 46.5-47 psi
System Pressure 67 psi
Rest Pressure 28 psi after 20- 30 minutes

Cold pressure and warm pressure tests the warm up regulator(wur), system pressure test the fuel pump, and rest pressure tests the Warm up regulator o-ring in the fuel distributor that is on the pressure regulator itself(see this in faq's), on the pressure regulator there are two orings one is the warm up regulator o-ring and the second is system pressure provided by the fuel pump- if this o ring is flat- it would be difficult to keep pressure up in the fuel distributor , fuel injectors open at 44 psi and system pressure being 60-70 psi would be sufficient to keep fuel going to these in this CIS- Continuous Injection System. new o rings on the pressure regulator is a good start with testing the CIS system. Orings are Inexpensive and an easy replacement.

In faq's there is also a test for the Fuel accumulator which is where the fuel from the fuel pump is pumped too-1st, this device smooths out the pulses of the fuel pump and its fuel delivery so that even pressure in the feed line going to the fuel distributor exists.

An example of CIS testing- last year my rest pressure was falling very fast- I took out the pressure regulator with 16mm socket and found the o-ring-large one in back was broken--too much fuel pressure-72 -74 psi( see wit bubbas), I removed one of the shims and the pressure dropped to 67 psi or so and the rest pressure stayed in the high 20's for 30 minutes-oring stayed good did not break-value of CIS testing.

Randy

[kevinr1247]

Thanks everyone. The fuel pump does whirrr and gurgle, so I'm gonna go in there are replace the piping and the fuel pump as well. It looks to be all original. I don't have access to all the testing equipment, so I am operating a bit blindly. If the pump refresh doesn't solve anything, then I'll dig a bit deeper. Thanks again for all the great information.

[WantingAfunE21]

Thanks everyone. The fuel pump does whirrr and gurgle, so I'm gonna go in there are replace the piping and the fuel pump as well. It looks to be all original. I don't have access to all the testing equipment, so I am operating a bit blindly. If the pump refresh doesn't solve anything, then I'll dig a bit deeper. Thanks again for all the great information.

The testing gauge and fittings can be bought as a kit for under $100. I purchased mine from toolsource.com, but there are other options listed in the FAQ. The testing is not overly difficult and it the long run can save you big money. People have replaced every component of the fuel system just to find out the had a bad ground or other simple problem that was affecting one fuel delivery component.

[Thecatmilton]

If the fuel distributor is bad, would converting to the e30 M10 EFI be cheaper at that point?

[epmedia]

Thanks everyone. The fuel pump does whirrr and gurgle, so I'm gonna go in there are replace the piping and the fuel pump as well. It looks to be all original. I don't have access to all the testing equipment, so I am operating a bit blindly. If the pump refresh doesn't solve anything, then I'll dig a bit deeper. Thanks again for all the great information.

A quiet whirr is normal, gurgling is not. If the external pump is indeed original, I recommend replace it when you replace those old suction hoses (the pump may be nearing it's last leg). You can also save the old pump as a spare in case ever needed. If you still hear 'gurgling' after replacing the 3 pieces of hose on the suction side of the external fuel pump, With the new external fuel pump installed - let us know, because it's also possible the fuel pickup in the tank can be damaged (rubber coupling).

[kevinr1247]

Thought I'd just post my parts list so far. Plan is to replace some of the expansion tanks hoses as well....the ones that connect he two tanks. I suspect leaks from there as well. I feel like I'm forgetting something. EDIT: Here's the seal for the fuel level sender.

Seal, Fuel Tank Sending Unit, Brand: Genuine BMW Part #: 16-12-1-150-391-M9

Hose Clamp - 12-15 mm Range / 7.5 mm Width (Screw Type), Brand: O.E.M.

$1.25

2

$2.50

Hose Clamp - 12-22 mm Range / 9 mm Width (Screw Type), Brand: Oetiker

$1.25

8

$10.00

Fuel Hose, Brand: CRP Industries

$10.50

3

$31.50

O-Ring for Fuel Level Sending Unit, Brand: Genuine BMW

$4.25

1

$4.25

Fuel Hose - 6.0 X 11.0 mm - Outside Cloth Braided Brand: Cohline

$4.75

1

$4.75

Sealing Ring for Fuel Tank Suction Device, Brand: Continental VDO

$4.00

1

$4.00

Fuel Pump (In-Line) Brand: Bosch

$157.25

1

$157.25

[sbcrockett]

first off, JUST SAY NO to braided fuel lines. Even though they will last for a while, they're still prone to hiding bad hoses. second, that Bosch fuel pump is 100 bucks at rockauto.com. and third, welcome to the forums

p.s. yes, replace all the vent lines while you're down there. you'll need to lower at least one of the tanks to gain proper access but it's a simple job

[epmedia]

Order that nylon "T" fitting under the access cover as well. because 59% chance you'll break it.

There are more vent hoses in there too, the ones related to the over-fill tank in the trunk.

[320iAman]

Hayg Orig Inline Fuel Pump 0 580 254 909 0580254909 New, $50/free shipping 898 sold, 9 available, I have been running this one for several years, very very good--save $100 plus and buy your wife a new dress and dinner out , it comes with more goodies as well[new electrical terminals,sealing washers,terminal boot covers,nuts and washers] @ 1/3 the price, Never pay list price, I have a new Bosch fuel pump as well and it cost me $99.00/free ship and is still new in the box.

The leak mentioned is probably the cloth braided hose that connects the 2 fuel tanks at the top-breather hose--have to drop one of the gas tanks to change this one. On topping off the fuel tanks this hose would get filled and leak down the gas tanks on too the gas station concrete flat slab adjacent too the pumps, when the cloth braided hose is old and cracked.

If you all are not running a Hayg fuel pump-you paid too much. I drink Colombian Coffee.

s-l1600.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320636928496...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

This is the tester I use and brought this up many years ago,here, Fuel Injection Pressure Tester for Bosch C.I.S. K-Jetronic Systems by S and G Tool aid Corp. # 33800, I paid $100.00 incl shipping. I watched Josh's Video on his home made one and knew I should get one.

http://www.toolaid.com/content/cis-k...jection-tester


Randy

[kevinr1247]

first off, JUST SAY NO to braided fuel lines. Even though they will last for a while, they're still prone to hiding bad hoses. second, that Bosch fuel pump is 100 bucks at rockauto.com. and third, welcome to the forums

p.s. yes, replace all the vent lines while you're down there. you'll need to lower at least one of the tanks to gain proper access but it's a simple job

Cool. Can someone point me in the direction of an online source for non-braided lines? Sorry, still a noob on some of this stuff. I did search the forum but...

EDIT: Here's one...east coast.

https://www.belmetric.com/

[mxl556]

When braided lines have leaks its not obvious, you can always get identical non braided (rubber) versions. Pelican parts have a great selection. Or just order from BMW...
I'd get the best quality hoses so you won't need to do it again in a few years...

Max

[320iAman]

Plus if ya use a Bosch, you have to prove to bosch you placed in a new filter strainer(read there warranty) so if bosch fuel pump goes kaput within the warranty, you'll have to show a new filter strainer receipt on the in tank fuel pump at the time of the fuel pump install or no warranty replacement, in other words they'll throw you under the bus without the new filter strainer receipt close to the date of purchase or worse case they'll want an ase installers work order showing this filter strainer was installed at the same time the fuel pump was installed... Like I said I drink Colombian Coffee finest in the world.

Randy

[kevinr1247]

I'm smack dab in the process of doing this.....replacing hoses, gaskets, etc. Went with the recommended fuel pump and non-braided lines. Found the metric sizes online. I've removed the fuel sender. Planing on cleaning it out a bit to get it working, hopefully. Bronze varnish coating it.

Quick question.

Does #13 just unscrew....or how does it come out? Didn't have enough time today to mess with it. I need to replace the gasket there. It does seem loose to me when I was messing with it, so I thought it might be the main source of the leak.

Fuel-tanks_zpsz8neryan.jpg
ref: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-onto-pavement