E92 335i pulls to the right

**AsifLicious** · 03-15-2017, 08:56 PM

Hey everyone, yesterday I replaced my lower control arms because the driver side one had a bend in it for some reason (I didn't cause it, most likely previous owner) prior to replacing them, the car drove perfectly fine. After replacing the control arms, I went to get an alignment. After the alignment, my steering wheel was tilted to right and pulled to the right. I went back to the shop and had them try and fix it. No luck. Next I went to a more reputable alignment shop and had them redo the alignment. No difference. Went to my trusted tire shop and had them inspect and swap the front left and right tires and check the stats and pressures of all tires. Tires looked great, but still no luck with the steering wheel or pulling to the right. Went back to the second alignment shop, had them try the alignment again. Still no luck. Now I am completely lost. Do any of you have any idea what could be going on??? Please help

**RocketSurgeon** · 03-15-2017, 10:11 PM

A competent alignment shop will set the wheel straight with a jig. There is no reason for the wheel to be off center. Did you get a 4 wheel alignment? Something could be out on the back. The bent control arm concerns me a little, it takes a huge amount of force to bend one, so it makes me wonder if there was collision damage. Good mechanics are hard to find, but a good one should be able to align the car and make it track straight, or at least identify why the car isn't tracking straight. Since the car drove fine before, either the new alignment is bad, or the old alignment was dialed in to compensate for the bent control arm. You might ask them to test drive it so they can see that it's pulling.

**AsifLicious** · 03-15-2017, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

A competent alignment shop will set the wheel straight with a jig. There is no reason for the wheel to be off center. Did you get a 4 wheel alignment? Something could be out on the back. The bent control arm concerns me a little, it takes a huge amount of force to bend one, so it makes me wonder if there was collision damage. Good mechanics are hard to find, but a good one should be able to align the car and make it track straight, or at least identify why the car isn't tracking straight. Since the car drove fine before, either the new alignment is bad, or the old alignment was dialed in to compensate for the bent control arm. You might ask them to test drive it so they can see that it's pulling.

I just drove the car again and I've realized that when I am holding the wheel straight, the car does in fact track straight. However, the steering wheel is always fighting with me, it want to go to the right, taking the wheels with it. When I originally discovered the bent control arm, my Indy shop said it looks like the car was improperly towed at one point, but honestly who knows. No other components are damaged or bent so that leads me to believe that a former collision isn't very likely, but I'm just guessing. The car has a clean title, but we all know how easy it is to hide accidents from insurance. That being said, does it sound like I need an alignment or a steering wheel adjustment?

**91e34M5** · 03-16-2017, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by AsifLicious

I just drove the car again and I've realized that when I am holding the wheel straight, the car does in fact track straight. However, the steering wheel is always fighting with me, it want to go to the right, taking the wheels with it. When I originally discovered the bent control arm, my Indy shop said it looks like the car was improperly towed at one point, but honestly who knows. No other components are damaged or bent so that leads me to believe that a former collision isn't very likely, but I'm just guessing. The car has a clean title, but we all know how easy it is to hide accidents from insurance. That being said, does it sound like I need an alignment or a steering wheel adjustment?

Being improperly towed makes perfect sense for a bent control arm. What doesn't make sense is that the steering wheel was straight and it tracked true with the bent arm. I also agree with Rocket Surgeon that a competent shop should easily be able to identify a problem that would cause the wheel to be off center and pull to one side. Either go back to the shop(s) that you've been to, or find a shop that specializes in BMW alignment. Also, like Rocket Surgeon mentioned, it could possibly be an issue with rear alignment. If a tow shop did bend the front lower control arms, its also possible they did damage to the rear suspension components too.

**AsifLicious** · 03-16-2017, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by 91e34M5

Being improperly towed makes perfect sense for a bent control arm. What doesn't make sense is that the steering wheel was straight and it tracked true with the bent arm. I also agree with Rocket Surgeon that a competent shop should easily be able to identify a problem that would cause the wheel to be off center and pull to one side. Either go back to the shop(s) that you've been to, or find a shop that specializes in BMW alignment. Also, like Rocket Surgeon mentioned, it could possibly be an issue with rear alignment. If a tow shop did bend the front lower control arms, its also possible they did damage to the rear suspension components too.

That's what confuses me too! Prior to discovering the bent control arm, I had no problem with the way the car drove. I did take it back to the second alignment shop and they did a complete four wheel alignment. Here is the latest alignment spec. This is the best it's going to be until I figure out what's causing the pull. Someone mentioned that it may be a bent strut causing the camber issue? I don't know for certain though. Any thoughts?

**RocketSurgeon** · 03-17-2017, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by AsifLicious

That's what confuses me too! Prior to discovering the bent control arm, I had no problem with the way the car drove. I did take it back to the second alignment shop and they did a complete four wheel alignment. Here is the latest alignment spec. This is the best it's going to be until I figure out what's causing the pull. Someone mentioned that it may be a bent strut causing the camber issue? I don't know for certain though. Any thoughts?

If enough force was applied to bend a control arm, the strut or strut tower could have been damaged. You might pop the hood and take a good look at both strut towers to see if anything looks abnormal. The whole front subframe is aluminum, so you might take a look that too. The car was properly aligned with the bent arm, so either the longer/unbent arm changed the geometry in a way that makes alignment difficult, or the shop improperly aligned the car. You might call a few alignment shops, perhaps ones that specialize in collision repair, and explain the situation. They might have a better idea of how to get it right.

**AsifLicious** · 03-29-2017, 09:20 PM

UPDATE:

so today I finally had brand new front struts and strut mounts installed and got an alignment afterwards afterwards. However, my car feels no different. It's still pulling to the right. Now I'm really pissed off. I have new lower control arms, new struts, new mounts, new alignment. The alignment specs are perfect. But the car is still pulling to the right. Does anyone have any idea what the hell is going on? I could have freaking gotten an entire M3 suspension with amount I've been having to dump on this issue, this is getting ridiculous. All that's left is the tension strut arm (the wavy arm thing). Besides that, could it be ANYTHING else??? Attached are my current alignment specs. Oh, and the front end is sitting higher than normal now. I swear to God, it's one thing after another.

**RocketSurgeon** · 03-29-2017, 10:57 PM

Really going out on a limb here, but is it possible that you have a wheel dragging? Your alignment looks spot on, could you have a wheel bearing or caliper issue causing the pull? I might lift up the front right corner and make sure the wheel spins freely by hand.

I just remembered my brother had a 2001 Firebird that we later learned was wrecked. We had an alignment done, but the car would pull because I believe it had a slight bend in the frame. When the alignment read perfect, the car would pull. The shop realigned the car several times until it tracked straight. On paper, the alignment looked way off, but that's what it took to make the car track correctly.

**AsifLicious** · 03-29-2017, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Really going out on a limb here, but is it possible that you have a wheel dragging? Your alignment looks spot on, could you have a wheel bearing or caliper issue causing the pull? I might lift up the front right corner and make sure the wheel spins freely by hand.

I just remembered my brother had a 2001 Firebird that we later learned was wrecked. We had an alignment done, but the car would pull because I believe it had a slight bend in the frame. When the alignment read perfect, the car would pull. The shop realigned the car several times until it tracked straight. On paper, the alignment looked way off, but that's what it took to make the car track correctly.

The guy that put in my strut towers said that if that doesn't fix it, the next likely culprit could be the strut tensioner arm. If THAT doesn't fix it, he told me it could very well be a bent frame... I really really really hope that isn't it. I haven't check the wheel bearing or calipers. What is a dragging wheel? I'm not too mechanically savvy. Is there a way to check if the strut tension arm is damaged without just replacing them? I don't want to keep throwing money at this if it won't fix my issue. Also, how do I check the bearings and calipers?

**RocketSurgeon** · 03-30-2017, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by AsifLicious

The guy that put in my strut towers said that if that doesn't fix it, the next likely culprit could be the strut tensioner arm. If THAT doesn't fix it, he told me it could very well be a bent frame... I really really really hope that isn't it. I haven't check the wheel bearing or calipers. What is a dragging wheel? I'm not too mechanically savvy. Is there a way to check if the strut tension arm is damaged without just replacing them? I don't want to keep throwing money at this if it won't fix my issue. Also, how do I check the bearings and calipers?

Reading back through this, it's seeming like a chassis or suspension issue. The car tracked correctly prior to the control arm replacement and alignment. Usually control arms are replaced because the rubber bushing is worn out, or the ball joint develops play. Checking a control arm involves visually inspecting it for damage, and tugging on it to see if it clicks or moves excessively.
A sticky caliper is basically a brake that drags or doesn't let go. I've heard of one case of a sticking caliper making the car pull to one side, so this isn't likely.
Here's a question for you. Do you have a printout of the before and after for the first alignment when this all started?

**TonyAngel** · 03-30-2017, 10:40 AM

I may be way off base here, but there was a time when my son's car did the same thing, when I first bought it. It went straight when you held the wheel straight. I inspected the tires and found that one didn't match. This tire also had less tread depth than the others. Likely a used tire they put on to sell the car. I measured tread depth of all tires and put the 2 that matched on the front. Problem went away.

**AsifLicious** · 03-30-2017, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Reading back through this, it's seeming like a chassis or suspension issue. The car tracked correctly prior to the control arm replacement and alignment. Usually control arms are replaced because the rubber bushing is worn out, or the ball joint develops play. Checking a control arm involves visually inspecting it for damage, and tugging on it to see if it clicks or moves excessively.
A sticky caliper is basically a brake that drags or doesn't let go. I've heard of one case of a sticking caliper making the car pull to one side, so this isn't likely.
Here's a question for you. Do you have a printout of the before and after for the first alignment when this all started?

Unfortunately I do not have an alignment printout from before replacing the control arms. The new struts did make a correct alignment possible though, so I'm assuming the old one was bent. I do not think it's the caliper because it pulls at all times even long after the last use of the brakes. I could be wrong however. I have noticed that after driving spiritedly and being hard on the brakes, one of the wheels makes a bird like chirping noise when starting from a stop until I start to pick up speed. Not during the actual braking process, just releasing the brake from a standstill after spirited driving. Could this be an indication of a sticking caliper? I just ordered the thrust/tension arms and I'm really hoping that solves the issue. If the previous owner was an idiot and smacked is car into a curb hard enough to bend the control arm and strut tower, it would make sense that the tension arm is also damaged.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by TonyAngel

I may be way off base here, but there was a time when my son's car did the same thing, when I first bought it. It went straight when you held the wheel straight. I inspected the tires and found that one didn't match. This tire also had less tread depth than the others. Likely a used tire they put on to sell the car. I measured tread depth of all tires and put the 2 that matched on the front. Problem went away.

My tires all seem fine and don't seem to be causing the issue

**91e34M5** · 04-01-2017, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by AsifLicious

My tires all seem fine and don't seem to be causing the issue

Before doing anything else, I would recommend removing the tires, inspect tread on each for abnormal wear, then rotate to see what happens. Maybe even rotate in different variations.

**AsifLicious** · 04-02-2017, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by 91e34M5

Before doing anything else, I would recommend removing the tires, inspect tread on each for abnormal wear, then rotate to see what happens. Maybe even rotate in different variations.

Ive checked the tires and they all seem good. I just double checked my tire pressures. 32 up front and 37 rear. Nothing to indicate a tire issue. It's not that the car pulls to the right when the wheel is straight, the steering wheel turns to the right when I let go of it. It's more pronounced at lower speeds but noticeable at any speed

**sleeper bird** · 04-02-2017, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by AsifLicious

Ive checked the tires and they all seem good. I just double checked my tire pressures. 32 up front and 37 rear. Nothing to indicate a tire issue. It's not that the car pulls to the right when the wheel is straight, the steering wheel turns to the right when I let go of it. It's more pronounced at lower speeds but noticeable at any speed

. Seems to me it's the same thing,pulls to the right .do you have to make it track straight when holding the wheel?

**AsifLicious** · 04-03-2017, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by sleeper bird

. Seems to me it's the same thing,pulls to the right .do you have to make it track straight when holding the wheel?

I have to keep the wheel straight for it to track straight. If I let go, it'll turn right

**AsifLicious** · 04-13-2017, 08:02 PM

UPDATE:

hey everyone. Today I finally replaced my upper control arms. As of now, I have new struts, strut mounts, upper and lower control arms. The car still pulls to the right. No evidence of a sticking caliper. The tires all seem up to spec. Alignment is good. I am all out of ideas. Does anyone have any idea of what could be causing this?

**cochise325** · 04-13-2017, 10:52 PM

rear toe?

**AsifLicious** · 04-15-2017, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by cochise325

rear toe?

Front and Rear alignment is good

**soulmaker1** · 04-15-2017, 06:06 PM

Bad tires

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**RocketSurgeon** · 04-15-2017, 06:24 PM

At this point I'd be checking for a bent frame. Check with an auto shop that specializes in collision repair, they know how to make a car track straight. The subframes are all aluminum, so if enough force was applied to bend a control arm, it's possible that other things got bent too. A competent collision shop can almost certainly make it behave, though the alignment might look wrong on paper.

**AsifLicious** · 04-15-2017, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

At this point I'd be checking for a bent frame. Check with an auto shop that specializes in collision repair, they know how to make a car track straight. The subframes are all aluminum, so if enough force was applied to bend a control arm, it's possible that other things got bent too. A competent collision shop can almost certainly make it behave, though the alignment might look wrong on paper.

yeah, I'm having a guy check it out this Monday that can tell me whether or not the frame is damaged. Hoping for the best

**AsifLicious** · 05-09-2017, 11:00 PM

UPDATE:
Had the frame checked, everything looks good. Got my suspension inspected by a reputable Indy shop. They didn't find anything wrong with the suspension. They did a proper four wheel alignment as well. But still, no change. Now I'm literally all out of ideas

**georgebuhr** · 05-10-2017, 11:38 PM

Sorry I didn't see this thread before but I don't follow this forum much. I'll give a quick background of me; I have worked in the collision repair business for 30 years, and we also recently started doing our own alignments, so I feel like I can help you go in the right direction.

You have gotten a lot of great advice here so far. The one thing I would say though is that an alignment sheet can give you some idea if the frame is damaged, if you have a good alignment guy that knows how to do more than set caster camber and toe. Given your issues, I think the next thing I would have done as an alignment specialist would be to check the wheel base, track widths, and ride heights to see if they are off. This will give you an idea if the frame or suspension points are bent. If the wheelbase is good, you can rest assured that the control arm and mounting parts are correct. That takes that out of the equation.

The ride heights being off can cause a car to pull. Ride heights that are incorrect can change caster camber and toe. Also, in regards to ride heights, BMW is one of the few manufacturers that specifically asks you as an alignment tech to check them before starting the alignment, only they take it one step further. On some cars, I have seen them ask you to put a full tank of gas in the car, 50 pounds in both front seats, 50 in both rears, and another 50 in the trunk. Then they ask you to measure the ride heights, and correct them before proceeding. If you do all that and the ride heights are off, it can indicate a weak spring or shock, so it's not a step you want to skip, but I promise you that most independent shops will not take the time to do this.

But let's assume ride heights and alignment are good. What to check next? The next things you can check that won't cost you a dime, are the steering rack and brakes. Raise the front of the car off the ground, and start the car with the wheels straight ahead, and see if the wheel turns on its own. If it does, you have a steering rack problem. Forgive me, I don't know which of these cars have electric or hydraulic steering , but you normally see steering pull from a bad valve on a hydraulic steering rack, but it could also be possible on an electric rack.

Next while it's up, spin the tires and check for drag. If one has more drag than the other, that can definitely cause a pull. Could be a bad wheel bearing, or improperly greased calipers. Go to south main auto channel on YouTube, and look at some of his brake videos on how to disassemble and grease a brake caliper. I've been working on them a long time and he taught me some things on how to grease a brake.

Let's assume that all checked out, now what? Go to hunter.com, and do a search on their website for a shop that has a road force balancer. The reason why you want this is not to check road force; these machines can also measure lateral pull on each tire, and can also identify a bent rim or a bad tire. It can also optimize placement of each tire for the least amount of pull. This is what I think the problem is; you have a tire pull. But the road force balancer will take the guesswork out of it and verify it. IF you can find a tech that knows how to use it.

Also, I would like to point out, that your original alignment sheet had more camber in the left front then right front(leaning in more). This WILL cause a pull. If anything, it should be the opposite to compensate for road crown. You want want to set it up to pull slightly left, not right. Road crown definitely will make a car pull to the right depending on the severity.

So to summarize, I think you need to check your ride heights, brake drag or wheel bearing drag, and have your tires checked for pull.

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**georgebuhr** · 05-11-2017, 09:39 AM

I had typed in a rather length post last night in response, not sure why it didn't display, but I will give you the cliff notes version now.

Firstly, given the trouble you have had, your alignment guy should have checked the wheelbase and ride heights. Wheel base numbers can rule out a bent frame and would have saved you time and money, because if the wheel base is off, it means either a bent frame or control arm. If its good, it should take a good alignment.

Ride height can affect caster, camber and toe. In fact, BMW is one of the fussiest manufacturers when it comes to alignments, in that on some of the ones I have attempted an alignment on, many of them require you to place weights in the car. They want you to fill the gas tank, then typically put 50 pounds on each of the front seats, 50 pounds on the rear seats, and another 50 in the trunk, before you even take a measurement. Ride height being off at this point can indicate a weak spring or shock, and if you have a corner that is sagging, it will typically pull your camber angles to the negative, and when it does this, it can steer your tire in as well, and just the fact that a corner is low will change what angle your frame is sitting at, thus changing caster angle, because they are directly related. Also, I can promise you that many, many alignment guys are either too lazy or don't have the equipment to properly check the ride height, and many of them may just think that checking it is overkill. I can tell you for fact that it makes a difference.

Assuming all that is good, there are two things you can check on your own that wont cost anything. First, make sure you don't have a pull from your steering rack. Jack the car up, turn the wheel straight, take your hands off the wheel, and start the car. If the wheel moves, your rack could be bad. Forgive me as I don't remember which of these cars have electric or hydraulic steering racks, but this problem is more common on a hydraulic rack due to a bad valve, but could still happen on an electric rack.

Next, check for brake or wheel bearing drag. While it is in the air, spin the front tires. If they don't seem smooth or one stops quicker than the other, inspect it further. Also, grab the wheel at 12 and 6 o'clock and give it a wiggle, checking for play. There should not be much noticeable movement at all. If there is, not only can this change alignment angles, but also cause brake drag. Next, pull the wheel off and check for brake drag. If you suspect any, try re greasing each caliper. Here is a great video that you can apply to just about any car that illustrates the proper way to grease a brake caliper:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhw_d_EWrOQ

Lastly, assuming all else checks out, go to http://www.hunter.com/gsp9700. Do a search for a shop that has a Road Force Balancer with StraightTrak. The nice thing about this particular machine, is that it doesn't just check for road force imbalance. It can check for lateral pull, a bad tire, or a bent rim. Assuming the tire is good, after it checks a complete set of tires for lateral pull, it will recommend an optimum placement on the car for the least amount of pull.

BTW I noticed on your original alignment sheet you have more negative camber on the left vs the right. This will cause pull. When I used to race asphalt oval, the way we got the car to pull to the left, was positive camber in the left, negative camber in the right, and more caster on the right vs left, and more weight on the RR and LF( ride height).

Your new alignment sheet looks better, so I'm going to take a guess and say that you either have a ride height issue, brake drag, wheel bearing drag, or a tire with a bad pull. If you don't want to spend money on a road force balance, try swapping the front tires left to right and see if it changes. Don't mess with the rears for now, because they wont make it pull anyway unless one side in the back had a brake drag too. One other note on your alignment angles. All roads have some crown to them. Because of this crown, it is typical to see slightly more negative camber angles on the right side, not the left side, same thing with caster(more caster right, less caster left). This helps steer the car slightly left to counteract the road crown wanting to pull the car to the right. You have the opposite according to your angles.

Good luck and hope this helps.