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Thread: E39 Power steering FLUID. WHAT TO USE?

  1. #1
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    E39 Power steering FLUID. WHAT TO USE?

    Hi guys, I have a 2001 530iA. THe car makes a whirring noise if I tilt the steering wheel. The steering fluid is low. On the cap it says ATF only. But what I should I buy? ECS Tuning has Hydraulic Powersteering fluid only, NO ATF. WHAT SHOULD I USE?
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    Any cheap off the shelf ATF.

    No, Redline D4 is not going to make your steering feel smoother.

  3. #3
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    DO NOT use power steering fluid! Use any good ATF.

    "Tilt the steering wheel?" That noise is probably coming from the motors that adjust the steering wheel position.
    Last edited by edjack; 03-12-2017 at 06:23 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by XAlt View Post
    Any cheap off the shelf ATF.

    No, Redline D4 is not going to make your steering feel smoother.
    Penz oil Dt 5?

    - - - Updated - - -

    You think? I doubt that's the case.
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  5. #5
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    I use this one (middle bottle in pic) when I do my power steering fluid flushes.

    ATF for power steering - middle one.JPG
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    Use any 'Dex 3' type fluid. (Dexron III is no longer certified, and technically no modern fluid is available under that name.)

    I've read to specifically avoid using synthetic ATF. It won't help the steering system, and risks damaging the seals. It's probably just paranoia, but this may be a case where spending more isn't an advantage.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sal View Post
    I use this one (middle bottle in pic) when I do my power steering fluid flushes.

    ATF for power steering - middle one.JPG
    Tooo pricey.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by djb2 View Post
    Use any 'Dex 3' type fluid. (Dexron III is no longer certified, and technically no modern fluid is available under that name.)

    I've read to specifically avoid using synthetic ATF. It won't help the steering system, and risks damaging the seals. It's probably just paranoia, but this may be a case where spending more isn't an advantage.
    Any brand name would be helpful
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  8. #8
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    Any ATF. Just that. Don't listen to jiffylube/pep boys employees. Get any decent ATF like Shell's Donax or something like that. Avoid "power steering" fluids or that modern FWD cars green sh..tuff (audi, VW, etc)

    Valvoline Dex3 or Shell or Motul Dexron III (yes, it's still called Dexron III) or Motul MultiATF wich is Dex3 compliant.
    Diehard E39 driver.
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    If you want something super cheap then Walmart sells some Dexron III ATF under the Super Tech brand name. I used it to flush my system then I filled it with something more expensive. I think the entire system holds a little less than two quarts, so if yours is low then you are only going to need one quart. Personally I would use a brand name, but if you want the cheapest I think it was this stuff.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tec...Fluid/16213433
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    I put any ATF. It leaks out the hoses anyways, so I always have fresh fluid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullthrottle540 View Post
    I put any ATF. It leaks out the hoses anyways, so I always have fresh fluid.
    haha true

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Solo12 View Post
    If you want something super cheap then Walmart sells some Dexron III ATF under the Super Tech brand name. I used it to flush my system then I filled it with something more expensive. I think the entire system holds a little less than two quarts, so if yours is low then you are only going to need one quart. Personally I would use a brand name, but if you want the cheapest I think it was this stuff.

    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tec...Fluid/16213433
    I shall try this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jicaino View Post
    Any ATF. Just that. Don't listen to jiffylube/pep boys employees. Get any decent ATF like Shell's Donax or something like that. Avoid "power steering" fluids or that modern FWD cars green sh..tuff (audi, VW, etc)

    Valvoline Dex3 or Shell or Motul Dexron III (yes, it's still called Dexron III) or Motul MultiATF wich is Dex3 compliant.
    I can't find any dexron III fluid at any stores near me... Only online.
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  12. #12
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    Sounds like you are gonna give the Walmart stuff a try. So everything below is fyi or if you want somethiner else

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajcanadian View Post
    I can't find any dexron III fluid at any stores near me... Only online.
    Check the backs of various bottles too. They may say something about meeting Dexron III specifications, but I am not sure.

    Dexron VI is a fully synthetic fluid that is backwards compatible with Dexron III (synthetic conventional blend??). Dexron VI is considered the latest and greatest and is more common now. For our applications (power steering system) it is probably not going to be an improvement. But it is more common than Dexron III.

    As I understand it, this is a combo of a naming and product specification issue stemming from deals between various parties. Dexron III was a description of a specification the fluid was manufactured to, as well as a trademarked product name that was licensed to others by GM. In 2005 Dexron VI, a fully synthetic ATF was introduced as being "better" and was fully backwards compatible with Dexron III. In 2006 GM let the licenses expire for Dexron III and thereby I think started pushing everyone towards Dexron VI.

    I don't know if GM is not letting anyone use the name Dexron III or they forced the market to switch to Dexron VI by declaring it the new improved specification/required ATF. In any case Dexron VI is pretty common, while things being labeled Dexron III seem to be less common. I am thinking ATF being used in automatic transmissions is a much bigger driver of the market than cars that use ATF in their power steering system.

    In any case you can use Dexron VI in place of Dexron III, but it may be more expensive since it is fully synthetic and also probably because people have to pay royalties to GM. You may be able to find some stuff labeled Dexron III if you look hard enough. And/or you may have to read the back of bottles to find stuff that meets Dexron III specifications.

    You could also check your local BMW dealer and see what they have sometimes they have reasonable prices for a quart of oil or ATF.
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  13. #13
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    Dex iv has too little viscosity for our systems. It will result in steering box excessive wear, seals decay, added noise, uneven assist feel... You name it. 😕

    Possibly even baldness and impotence 😂
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    Quote Originally Posted by jicaino View Post
    Dex iv has too little viscosity for our systems. It will result in steering box excessive wear, seals decay, added noise, uneven assist feel... You name it.

    Possibly even baldness and impotence
    Damn those last two I can't live with.

  15. #15
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    I'm surprised at the previous link to Motul Dexron III.
    Perhaps they are using that name because they haven't changed the formula in decades and are relying on their previous certification. GM isn't likely to sue them.

    Most other ATFs are careful to say "Dex III" or "Compatible with...", since there is no current certification process that allows them to use 'Dexron' in the product name itself.

    The 'Dex 6' specification requires a significantly thinner fluid. The back compatibility in transmissions is based on Dexron III being allowed to shear down to that low viscosity at end-of-life. But that doesn't happen in the power steering system, which is presumably designed around a thicker fluid that remains at the initial viscosity.

    Just like almost every other fluid, substituting something else will probably work for long enough to claim "it works fine". Lots of people will suggest using an expensive out-of-spec because it made them feel good about treating their car to the "best". If that's the case for you, add a little caviar and champagne. (It will take years before you notice damage from the salt.)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solo12 View Post
    Sounds like you are gonna give the Walmart stuff a try. So everything below is fyi or if you want somethiner else



    Check the backs of various bottles too. They may say something about meeting Dexron III specifications, but I am not sure.

    Dexron VI is a fully synthetic fluid that is backwards compatible with Dexron III (synthetic conventional blend??). Dexron VI is considered the latest and greatest and is more common now. For our applications (power steering system) it is probably not going to be an improvement. But it is more common than Dexron III.

    As I understand it, this is a combo of a naming and product specification issue stemming from deals between various parties. Dexron III was a description of a specification the fluid was manufactured to, as well as a trademarked product name that was licensed to others by GM. In 2005 Dexron VI, a fully synthetic ATF was introduced as being "better" and was fully backwards compatible with Dexron III. In 2006 GM let the licenses expire for Dexron III and thereby I think started pushing everyone towards Dexron VI.

    I don't know if GM is not letting anyone use the name Dexron III or they forced the market to switch to Dexron VI by declaring it the new improved specification/required ATF. In any case Dexron VI is pretty common, while things being labeled Dexron III seem to be less common. I am thinking ATF being used in automatic transmissions is a much bigger driver of the market than cars that use ATF in their power steering system.

    In any case you can use Dexron VI in place of Dexron III, but it may be more expensive since it is fully synthetic and also probably because people have to pay royalties to GM. You may be able to find some stuff labeled Dexron III if you look hard enough. And/or you may have to read the back of bottles to find stuff that meets Dexron III specifications.

    You could also check your local BMW dealer and see what they have sometimes they have reasonable prices for a quart of oil or ATF.
    I don't feel comfortable using walmart stuff. I was looking towards spending $10 but not $25-50 on amazon Dex III or IV products just to top my fluid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jicaino View Post
    Dex iv has too little viscosity for our systems. It will result in steering box excessive wear, seals decay, added noise, uneven assist feel... You name it. 

    Possibly even baldness and impotence 
    That's nasty now.. I have noise while turning my wheel. It's annoying me
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    2000 BMW 328/5, 144k miles sienna red (slicktop)
    1995 BMW Dinan M3/2/5, Dakar yellow (I regret it)
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by djb2 View Post
    I'm surprised at the previous link to Motul Dexron III.
    Perhaps they are using that name because they haven't changed the formula in decades and are relying on their previous certification. GM isn't likely to sue them.

    Most other ATFs are careful to say "Dex III" or "Compatible with...", since there is no current certification process that allows them to use 'Dexron' in the product name itself.

    The 'Dex 6' specification requires a significantly thinner fluid. The back compatibility in transmissions is based on Dexron III being allowed to shear down to that low viscosity at end-of-life. But that doesn't happen in the power steering system, which is presumably designed around a thicker fluid that remains at the initial viscosity.

    Just like almost every other fluid, substituting something else will probably work for long enough to claim "it works fine". Lots of people will suggest using an expensive out-of-spec because it made them feel good about treating their car to the "best". If that's the case for you, add a little caviar and champagne. (It will take years before you notice damage from the salt.)
    Wow, only if ECSTuning sold atf instead of pentosin hydraulic power steering fluid.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by djb2 View Post
    I'm surprised at the previous link to Motul Dexron III.
    Perhaps they are using that name because they haven't changed the formula in decades and are relying on their previous certification. GM isn't likely to sue them.

    Most other ATFs are careful to say "Dex III" or "Compatible with...", since there is no current certification process that allows them to use 'Dexron' in the product name itself.
    I am just repeating what I heard on the forums are the licensing/trademark stuff and thinking out loud. I don't have the exact details on GM naming issue. It could very well be market/specification driven, GM says we have updated our specification and now Dexron VI is required. So if you want to stay compliant then you have to use the new stuff. BMW pulls similar stuff with their LL-98, LL-01, LL-04 (etc) certifications as well as who their official supplier is (Castrol vs Shell). All of a sudden there are new requirements that and new "better" products and the old ones are now bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by djb2 View Post
    The 'Dex 6' specification requires a significantly thinner fluid. The back compatibility in transmissions is based on Dexron III being allowed to shear down to that low viscosity at end-of-life. But that doesn't happen in the power steering system, which is presumably designed around a thicker fluid that remains at the initial viscosity.

    Just like almost every other fluid, substituting something else will probably work for long enough to claim "it works fine". Lots of people will suggest using an expensive out-of-spec because it made them feel good about treating their car to the "best". If that's the case for you, add a little caviar and champagne. (It will take years before you notice damage from the salt.)
    Good info from you and jicaino on the Dexron VI being a thinner fluid I did not realize that. When I flushed and refilled my system last summer I went with Dexron VI because it was recommended on the forums as Dexron III was no longer that common. But yeah viscosity requirements for the power steering fluid are probably not the same as transmission viscosity requirements.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajcanadian View Post
    I don't feel comfortable using walmart stuff. I was looking towards spending $10 but not $25-50 on amazon Dex III or IV products just to top my fluid.
    If your fluid is low using the walmart fluid to top it up is not going to hurt. The fluid that is in there is probably pretty old so a little low quality fluid is much less harmful than running with not enough fluid. Also what color is your current fluid is it still pinkish red or is it black now?

    As far as inexpensive Dex III compatible fluid (since you can't find anything labeled Dexron III) looking for bottles that are labeled Dex/Merc on the front might be the way to go. Maybe jicaino, djb2, or someone else more knowledgeable than me can weigh in if those would be good options.

    Dex/Merx labeled ones I found online:

    • Valvoline Dex/Merc
      • $4.37 walmart or $6.30 O'Reilly
      • Product data sheet here

    • Penzzoil Dex/Merc
      • $4.99 Pepboys
      • I think this is the data sheet here pg. 8 for viscosity info (not sure why they don't list it directly on the website like Valvoline does)

    • Castrol Transmax Dex/Merc (Not sure if this is a full sythetic or not)
      • Meets Dexron IIIH spec (not sure if that is good or bad)
      • $5.99 autozone, $5.50 advance autoparts
      • msds here pg. 8 for viscosity info

    • STP Dex/Merc
      • $4.99
      • I did not look up their info



    These ones also meet Dexron III as well as other specs, but they are not necessarily labeled Dex/Merc on the bottle:

    • Mobil ATF D/M
      • Meets Dexron IIIH spec (not sure if that is good or bad)
      • Product date sheet here

    • Mobil 1™ Synthetic ATF
      • Meets Dexron IIIG & IIIH spec not VI spec though (not sure if that is good or bad)
      • Product date sheet here
      • $10.29 Advance auto parts
      • It is labeled Dex/Merc on the front of the bottle

    • Valvoline Import Multi-Vehicle (full synthetic)


    This one is probably more like a Dexron VI

    • Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF (full synthetic)
      • Meets Dexron VI specs in addition to II & III
      • product data sheet here



    ECS
    Btw ECS sells lots of different ATF fluids.
    Edit
    I just found the previously mentioned Motul Dexron III on their website here
    Last edited by Solo12; 03-15-2017 at 11:41 PM.
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  19. #19
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    I suggest buying the least expensive major label ATF for the power steering. Avoid "high mileage" products, and never use dollar store fluids.

    Unrelated: I use the Valvoline ATF in my 5HP19 transmission. It meets the LT-71141 spec and is well-regarded by people that rebuild ZF transmissions. Note that the original fluid is dyed olive green, while the Valvoline is dyed traditional red. The original fluid can be passed off as "dirty, burnt and worn-out" even when new. Red fluid makes it slightly harder for oil change places to claim that you need a service.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by XAlt View Post
    Any cheap off the shelf ATF.

    No, Redline D4 is not going to make your steering feel smoother.
    Technically right but significantly misleading.

    The fancy ATF's won't in one bit whatsoever change the feel of a properly operating PS system. Definitely true.

    But down here in the these-are-all-old-cars-with-high-mileage-now real-world, the fancy ATF's WILL have benefits for some if not most owners. The additives will help to clean out the gunk that's been accumulating in the system and may help to condition some seals as well. After proving this on my own car, I've seen several miraculous recoveries of steering systems groaning and moaning and diagnosed by pro techs as "needs a new pump and/or box!" using quality fluid over a series of short interval changes. My car is my best example of course - had brand new load of 'basic approved' ATF. Groaned like a mofo at low speeds in parking lots. Started throwing the 'good stuff' in and over 2-3 changes the car was silent and the 'pump is gonna go sooner or later and probably sooner' is still there and running great several years and 10's of k's later. I also throw a magnefine filter into the return line to the reservoir and that helps but I've helped a handful of guys eliminate their formerly grave steering diagnosis with this process... I change it when it starts to look and smell disgusting also... that probably helps the whole situation...

    Damn you cheapskate bastiche, its only a single bottle too... just spring for the bottle of M1 or Castrol or whatever... its only like an extra $4... It's even a perfect use of whatever leftover high-grade ATF if you happen to have some lying around from any auto trannies in the family (that's how I ended up using D4 for a while I think...)
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    I just did all four PS hoses and flushed the system last weekend on our 540iT. I used Castrol Multi Vehicle Import version ATF and it just took a quart and all of the fluid was drained out. I had previously replaced the reservoir and flushed so the fluid was already fresh but I had bigger leaks than just a crack in the reservoir and bad hose ends unfortunately.

    Doing the trans this weekend, but will use Pentosin ATF1 for that (thought about the Valvoline Max Life, well regarded in the Audi ZF trans world--the 540i has the same transmission as our '01 allroad had). I would have used the leftover ATF1 for the PS but I did the PS hose job first because the car was leaking badly from all four of the hoses.

    It would be a good idea to figure out why the fluid is low. Hopefully topping up gets rid of the whirring noise.

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    Jesus you guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by e39hamann View Post
    Jesus you guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
    Hahah, that's right! The man with the 305k mile E39. What do you tend to use?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by msvphoto View Post
    I just did all four PS hoses and flushed the system last weekend on our 540iT. I used Castrol Multi Vehicle Import version ATF and it just took a quart and all of the fluid was drained out. I had previously replaced the reservoir and flushed so the fluid was already fresh but I had bigger leaks than just a crack in the reservoir and bad hose ends unfortunately.

    Doing the trans this weekend, but will use Pentosin ATF1 for that (thought about the Valvoline Max Life, well regarded in the Audi ZF trans world--the 540i has the same transmission as our '01 allroad had). I would have used the leftover ATF1 for the PS but I did the PS hose job first because the car was leaking badly from all four of the hoses.

    It would be a good idea to figure out why the fluid is low. Hopefully topping up gets rid of the whirring noise.
    I'm going to end up topping it. I don't have enough $$ to start replacing hoses. Just sent my spoilt pig to get all rust and paint issues sorted. IMG_9060-2.jpg
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    Past
    2000 BMW M5, Jetblack
    1995 BMW M3/2/5, Alpine white
    1997 BMW 328/5, Boston green
    2005 BMW 330/6 ZHP, Silbergrau
    1999 BMW 540/6, Cashmere beige
    2000 BMW 328/5, 144k miles sienna red (slicktop)
    1995 BMW Dinan M3/2/5, Dakar yellow (I regret it)
    2002 BMW 530iA sport, Jetblack
    2001 BMW 530iA sport, cosmos
    2002 BMW 530iA, sterlinggrau

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Middle of a corn field
    Posts
    14,770
    My Cars
    E39 hamster/ruberbandPWR
    Last edited by Jason5driver; 03-16-2017 at 04:05 PM.

    Looking for an E39 belly pan , passenger front inner fender liner …

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Perrysburg, Ohio
    Posts
    392
    My Cars
    1999 BMW M3
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Technically right but significantly misleading.

    The fancy ATF's won't in one bit whatsoever change the feel of a properly operating PS system. Definitely true.

    But down here in the these-are-all-old-cars-with-high-mileage-now real-world, the fancy ATF's WILL have benefits for some if not most owners. The additives will help to clean out the gunk that's been accumulating in the system and may help to condition some seals as well. After proving this on my own car, I've seen several miraculous recoveries of steering systems groaning and moaning and diagnosed by pro techs as "needs a new pump and/or box!" using quality fluid over a series of short interval changes. My car is my best example of course - had brand new load of 'basic approved' ATF. Groaned like a mofo at low speeds in parking lots. Started throwing the 'good stuff' in and over 2-3 changes the car was silent and the 'pump is gonna go sooner or later and probably sooner' is still there and running great several years and 10's of k's later. I also throw a magnefine filter into the return line to the reservoir and that helps but I've helped a handful of guys eliminate their formerly grave steering diagnosis with this process... I change it when it starts to look and smell disgusting also... that probably helps the whole situation...

    Damn you cheapskate bastiche, its only a single bottle too... just spring for the bottle of M1 or Castrol or whatever... its only like an extra $4... It's even a perfect use of whatever leftover high-grade ATF if you happen to have some lying around from any auto trannies in the family (that's how I ended up using D4 for a while I think...)
    So, I do need the expensive stuff at the end of the day. I'm going to do that summer time. But first I've gotta top up the damn thing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Solo12 View Post
    I am just repeating what I heard on the forums are the licensing/trademark stuff and thinking out loud. I don't have the exact details on GM naming issue. It could very well be market/specification driven, GM says we have updated our specification and now Dexron VI is required. So if you want to stay compliant then you have to use the new stuff. BMW pulls similar stuff with their LL-98, LL-01, LL-04 (etc) certifications as well as who their official supplier is (Castrol vs Shell). All of a sudden there are new requirements that and new "better" products and the old ones are now bad.



    Good info from you and jicaino on the Dexron VI being a thinner fluid I did not realize that. When I flushed and refilled my system last summer I went with Dexron VI because it was recommended on the forums as Dexron III was no longer that common. But yeah viscosity requirements for the power steering fluid are probably not the same as transmission viscosity requirements.




    If your fluid is low using the walmart fluid to top it up is not going to hurt. The fluid that is in there is probably pretty old so a little low quality fluid is much less harmful than running with not enough fluid. Also what color is your current fluid is it still pinkish red or is it black now?

    As far as inexpensive Dex III compatible fluid (since you can't find anything labeled Dexron III) looking for bottles that are labeled Dex/Merc on the front might be the way to go. Maybe jicaino, djb2, or someone else more knowledgeable than me can weigh in if those would be good options.

    Dex/Merx labeled ones I found online:

    • Valvoline Dex/Merc
      • $4.37 walmart or $6.30 O'Reilly
      • Product data sheet here

    • Penzzoil Dex/Merc
      • $4.99 Pepboys
      • I think this is the data sheet here pg. 8 for viscosity info (not sure why they don't list it directly on the website like Valvoline does)

    • Castrol Transmax Dex/Merc (Not sure if this is a full sythetic or not)
      • Meets Dexron IIIH spec (not sure if that is good or bad)
      • $5.99 autozone, $5.50 advance autoparts
      • msds here pg. 8 for viscosity info

    • STP Dex/Merc
      • $4.99
      • I did not look up their info



    These ones also meet Dexron III as well as other specs, but they are not necessarily labeled Dex/Merc on the bottle:

    • Mobil ATF D/M
      • Meets Dexron IIIH spec (not sure if that is good or bad)
      • Product date sheet here

    • Mobil 1™ Synthetic ATF
      • Meets Dexron IIIG & IIIH spec not VI spec though (not sure if that is good or bad)
      • Product date sheet here
      • $10.29 Advance auto parts
      • It is labeled Dex/Merc on the front of the bottle

    • Valvoline Import Multi-Vehicle (full synthetic)


    This one is probably more like a Dexron VI

    • Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF (full synthetic)
      • Meets Dexron VI specs in addition to II & III
      • product data sheet here



    ECS
    Btw ECS sells lots of different ATF fluids.
    Edit
    I just found the previously mentioned Motul Dexron III on their website here
    Ok so my fluid is kinda white with red on the middle. My other E39 is cherry red with 161k miles. I don't know whats the issue with the 216k mile E39

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
    Not dex III
    Current
    1999 BMW M3/2/5 cosmos/black vaders

    Past
    2000 BMW M5, Jetblack
    1995 BMW M3/2/5, Alpine white
    1997 BMW 328/5, Boston green
    2005 BMW 330/6 ZHP, Silbergrau
    1999 BMW 540/6, Cashmere beige
    2000 BMW 328/5, 144k miles sienna red (slicktop)
    1995 BMW Dinan M3/2/5, Dakar yellow (I regret it)
    2002 BMW 530iA sport, Jetblack
    2001 BMW 530iA sport, cosmos
    2002 BMW 530iA, sterlinggrau

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

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