1997 540 / 6 - Timing Chain / Guides Progress

[Franktea]

Thought i would provide an update, its been a slow go!

Finally got the guides on, kept the same chains and tightened up the slack on the oil pump chain, didn't bother changing the OSV.

qcdstick - I take what you said about getting the timing covers on, that starts this weekend

Frank

[Franktea]

I read some people use "Gasket Maker" on oil pan gasket. Anyone use this stuff? Any other places i could or should use it? Valve Covers, timing covers, water pump ECT.

Thanks,
Frank

[6spd540]

Tackling this on my '97 as well and have some questions, If you don't mind I'll hop in and maybe we can work this out. My car has 226,000 miles on her including a few thousand miles on track. No signs of any abnormal noise, but I've been meaning to do this for years because of all the horror stories I've seen about guide/chain failures. Presently I have the valve covers, upper timing covers, and lower oil pan removed. No derbies or signs of guide failure, but my gaskets were leaking oil something fierce so I figure I may as well do the chain / guides anyway.
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I'm in the same boat. My timing cover is the last of my oil leaks(until new ones pop up-haven't needed a rear seal yet so that will probably go next). I'm at around 200k (I forgot how much lower my replacement gages were lower 25k or 35k, currently reading 171k) and no noise or plastic in lower pan.

I order a complete kit including upper tensioners. I'll probably switch to Evans coolant at this time since the coolant system will be drained and have at least a couple of days to dry out more.

Unless there's someone near me in Socal that had some that I can barrow/rent, I'll probably just make my own Cam and crank tools. Speaking of which can someone give me the dimensions of the crank pin?

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[Franktea]

I read you can use strong Allen key for crank pin.

[6spd540]

Yeah the appropriate sized Allen key would be adequate, but since I have a lathe in my garage I figured I'd just turn one out of some scrap. Similar for the Cam blocks but I'd use my mill.

I did see you can get the Cam tools with all the vanos tools (which I don't need for my 98 but will if/when I get a newer touring) for $100 while they'really made in China they should would fine for the few times I might need them.

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[JimLev]

Here ya go.
The middle pin is for the X5.

Crank Locking Pins.JPG

[6spd540]

Thanks for posted that, but I found a localish shop that sales a complete kit for $115.

I might do mine this weekend if have all the needed parts (I had large order that was split into 2 shipments and one got delayed, if they hadn't shipped late it wouldn't even be an issue). A quick look at what I got delivered today seems to have everything for doing the guides, including new o-rings for both ends of the coolant pipes and up oil pan(I recently changed lower so going to try and re-use since it's easy enough to change if it leaks).

I think the delayed shipment only had new oil filter mounts and front/rear window moldings.

I also picked up some Evans coolant locally so I'll be making that switch at the same time.

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[JimLev]

Excellent price.
Make sure you pull out the check valves behind the vanos solenoids to check that there isn't any crud in them.
They keep the oil from leaking out of the solenoid and the channels to the vanos when the engine is off.

[6spd540]

Right now like the OP, I'm just doing a M62 so no Vanos stuff. Since the kit with Vanos tools was cheap and if I ever get my touring it will likely have a M62TU.

It looks like I got everything needed for doing the guides in the shipment that was deliver except for the crank seal. Not only did I recently change it but I have another new one onhand. So i'll probably spend a good part of my 3 day weekend doing guides.

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[topaz540i]

Just so you guys are aware it is absolutely a horrible idea to replace the chain but not the sprockets. The worn teeth on the sprockets match the stretch on the chain. The old sprockets will destroy your new chain in no time. Why bother replace the chain? Chain failure is unheard of on this engine

[JimLev]

In all the chain guide jobs and vanos o-ring replacements I've done I haven't seen any sprockets that have had worn teeth.
How about you DannyZ?

[Mach540]

Just so you guys are aware it is absolutely a horrible idea to replace the chain but not the sprockets. The worn teeth on the sprockets match the stretch on the chain. The old sprockets will destroy your new chain in no time. Why bother replace the chain? Chain failure is unheard of on this engine

This may be true with chain systems that transmit large amounts of energy, but does not apply to timing chains. They don't have enough force on them to cause steel on steel wear. Heck, they don't even cause much steel on plastic wear even on a U-shaped guide.

[dannyzabolotny]

In all the chain guide jobs and vanos o-ring replacements I've done I haven't seen any sprockets that have had worn teeth.
How about you DannyZ?

I've never seen any worn sprockets, even on a 215k mile engine that had the worst guides I've ever seen. I'm pretty sure the sprockets are stronger than the chain.

[Asserti]

I've never seen any worn sprockets, even on a 215k mile engine that had the worst guides I've ever seen. I'm pretty sure the sprockets are stronger than the chain.

Then you probably have never seen an M42 with 120k miles on it

[Franktea]

Finally after 6 months duration, putting in a hour here and there the timing guides are completed. I finally started up the engine yesterday all sounds good!!!

Not sure i would do this job again!

[philly98540]

May be a new record. Congrats on getting it done! Now you have to keep it forever lol.

[Franktea]

Thanks! Slow and steady wins the race! LOL.

What i changed or did for the record while i was in there.

1 - Tightened up oil pump chain
2- 3 new guides
3 - New water pump
4 - New gaskets on everything i removed (by the way oil and grime on everything)
5 - Cleaned every part and engine
6 - New belt pulleys

That's all i can think of at the moment!

[dannyzabolotny]

Finally after 6 months duration, putting in a hour here and there the timing guides are completed. I finally started up the engine yesterday all sounds good!!!

Not sure i would do this job again!

That's what I said after I spent 2.5 months on the first chain guide job. And then I did it 9 more times. Now it only takes like two weeks.

[Mach540]

Two weeks? I thought you were down to a day.

[dannyzabolotny]

Two weeks? I thought you were down to a day.

By two weeks I mean two weekends. If I had 3-4 days in a row then I could do it in that time frame. But I have a job and other stuff going on so it's hard to just disappear for a few days to do a chain guide job. Now if I had somebody else doing the job with me and handling some of the more tedious stuff (like cleaning all the parts) then it would go a lot quicker.

[Franktea]

I agree cleaning and then ordering parts, tools as you discover new things really slow down the progress.

[6spd540]

Yeah finding other parts that needed to be replaced added some time to my timing chain guides too.

The fact that we had a heat wave that week didn't help either so I only worked on it in the evenings. I spent most of the first day doing coolant drains/flush(changed over to Evans coolant afterwards) and degreasing. I also spend a lot of time re-stripping my valve covers and re-finishing them and the timing covers(took a bunch more degreasing of the timing cover in the webbing) . Wasted most of one evening trying to get few pork chop screws out so I could remove front bumper (to do something not related to the guides). As for the parts part I broke my coolant pump pulley when removing my fan(I actually didn't notice until later when picked it up and it slit apart) which I had to order online. I noticed the bearing on my coolant pump was starting to go bad, on the plus side I still had the one that came with car when I bought it that seemed perfectly good when I changed (reached mileage that coolant refresh should he done, assumed it was original so changed) so I figured I'd use that one until I got another new one but while sitting in my garage for years the seal developed a leak so I had to wait for the new one.

With all the extra stuff I did, only spending a maybe a few hours on most days I feel pretty good only took 1 week for my first time.

As I mentioned before I was just doing mine since up at around 200k so might as well while I'm fixing my last oil leaks (btw my car has no leaks again). I recently didn't have any plastic in the pan but this time I found the first peace (one clip parts for the center guide)


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