I am trying to find opinions/experience from people with either a 400/500 setup or a 500/600 setup.
I currently have the H&R Sport/bilstein combo and am looking to upgrade. The car is a daily driver that will see the occasional HPDE. It is supercharged and has poly bushings throughout. I want it to be stiff but still comfortable daily driving on the street.
I know there are a lot of threads on this but I've read through them and still haven't been able to answer my question.
Basically I'm trying to decide between the two setups and want to know:
1. If you have the 400/500 (a lot of people), do you feel like you could go higher and still maintain the daily comfort? Another way of wording this would be, does the 400/500 leave something to be desired? I notice several threads have people starting with the 400/500 and then not long after, mentioning they would like to go higher but I didn't see much feedback after the switch.
2. If you have the 500/600, how does it feel? Any negative feedback with using this as a DD setup?
I realize either setup will work great and it's all subjective at this point but just curious to hear some thoughts on the matter.
Thanks!
Last edited by wydizzle; 05-05-2017 at 08:30 AM.
I have the 400/500 spring rates TC SAs for my street/track car and LOVE them. everyone that's ridden, driven or just even ridden behind me on the road comments on how well the car rides and handles. I def wouldn't get a higher spring rate if you plan to ride on the street. I run at softest rebound on street and highest on the track and I don't feel ANY wanting for more spring rate.. My car handles on rails.. way better than my 07 335i sport pck car does.
If my car was track only I might go higher like 550/650, but trust me when I say you will be happy with the 400/500, there's a reason TC recommends this for the street. with my street Dunlop DWs and stock DS2s its still stiffer than the stock suspension without being harsh, but when I put my track Dunlop Star Specs with D-Force LTW-5s , both 17in it definitely is a stiffer ride so if you're running a track oriented tire it REALLY stiffens the street ride so take that into consideration. I would never want a stiffer spring with a track tire with this suspension. btw, I dropped mine about 3/4 inch from stock height and kept the 1/2 to 5/8 inch stock rake as recommended by TC. many like to take more wheel gap out of the front by dropping it further but that makes it unbalanced with too much rake.. go for it!
Last edited by ben4bama; 03-13-2017 at 08:38 AM.
98 M3 sedan
For a DD, i'd go soft no question. What would be the point of going stiffer? TCK races their cars in autox and road courses on 450/500 springs and swears by it.
I was fine on 450/500s with a Turner front bar, stock rear bar, on rcomps. The only reason i'm going stiffer is because i need to go back to a stock front sway bar.
I have 350/400 TC Kline SA's on my E36 M3 4DR and love the ride. I DD my car and HPDE schools and they handle both very well. Everyone who's rode in the car has said it rides very compliant and comfortable. I have poly bushings, Tc Kline rear shock mounts. camber plates, H&R sway bars, Turner Motorsport RTA, and X brace. With all of that stiffness it still rides very good. I agree with TXBDan on going a little softer for DD. On the track they get the job done very well. Pull the trigger you won't be disappointed with the TC's!!
Some subjective opinions.
First, if you can only have a single car, there are better options. A newer E46 M3, 135i, 335i, or more rare 335is even better. To me an E36 as a daily is pushing it a little. That being said I have two cars, the E36 is my track toy, and I still drive it 2-3 times a week as it's a blast to drive. Subie BRZ's also excellent dual purpose candidates.
Given the stock weight of an E36, at about the rate of 350 lb on the front is where it starts to become rough over broken roads. Obviously a more expensive damper will tolerate higher but we're talking Koni here. If you start running springs on a daily in the 400 range or more, the car will handle a bit flatter and feel more responsive in transitions on a smooth track, it will also be proportionally slower and less compliant on public roads. You also risk damaging the unibody, it's no secret the E36 front strut mount areas are prone to mushrooming and cracking. The rear shock areas no better. Make sure you are using reinforcement plates front and rear.
Personally I find the E36 Bilsteins to be excellent. It would be a shame if you have to remove them as they give excellent handling. In any case I'd suggest sticking with Bilstein. You can have yours re-valved, or have you considered a Bilstein PSS9 kit? I went from a GC Koni based kit to the PSS9 kit, and run it on the street at softest setting and personally I find it fine for blasting around town or a trip to Sonic for onion rings and a burger. PSS9's work great at the track too, IMO it's the best out of the box coilover kit one can buy. They'll give that same great sense of control your current Billies do, also pair them with GC camber plates and you're good to go. I don't think you'll go wrong with TCK either, I'd stick to a 400/500 setup. It's a DE as well so it's not like you have a reason to compromise your ride - lol unless you found a DE that has nice girls at the finish!
Lastly, if you haven't already, lose some weight on your E36. Ditch the sunroof and the stock Vaders for a huge increase in handling and straight ahead performance. It will feel like it gained 50 hp on top of the big gain you already got from the blower.
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PCA HPDE Instructor
current:
2004 M3 convert 6sp man - low mileage beauty!
past:
1995 BMW M3 3.2
2004 M3 convert SMG
2003 BMW 540i6 Alpine White M sport (I want her back!)
+1 for Bilstein love. I know TC and I know his kits are well liked, but I am not a Koni guy.
2002 BMW M Roaster.
1998 BMW 328is SCCA E Production road racer.
I have a Ground Control hybrid street/track setup with 440# front and 550# rear, which is kind of right in between your two options. I daily drive the car still, in addition to tracking it multiple days a year. I personally love it on the street, though my wife certainly isn't a fan. You definitely feel the road, for good and bad. It's not uncomfortable by any means, though I probably wouldn't go too much stiffer than that on a street car.
The 400/500 option should be fine with no issues at all. 500/600 is probably still doable on the street, but that will depend on your tolerance for the extra "feel" it offers and how good your roads are. Also worth keeping in mind for the track, as you go stiffer on springs, the car can become less forgiving when at/near the limit. Softer spring rates may impair your racecar-like handling and lower your limits somewhat, but they also help your tires stay in contact with the pavement and your car going in the right direction.
Last edited by TostitoBandito; 04-17-2017 at 03:19 PM.
Thanks for the feedback everyone! I ended up getting the 400/500 and put it in this weekend. So far so good. Now if I can just figure out this Panjo deal to sell what I took off..
Panjo is over. There's now a separate section without Panjo. Once the listings in the Panjo section expire, it'll be deleted.
Oh nice. Thanks for the heads up!
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