WTF's wrong with my suspension?

[jicaino]

Hey! I replaced control and thurst arms in my car, plus the stabilizer bar links. My center link, idler and pitman arms were fine and tight. I replaced brake rotors (textar) and brake pads (ATE) while in there, also replaced caliper pins and bushings.

The car had all the old components and it had faded out to a little noisy but still well planted in most situations.

Now I have a slight "judder" while braking around 100km/h to 80km/h (62 to 45 mph give or take) and on uneven ground I feel some vibrations when accelerating at around the aforementioned speed. I don't think rotors are at fault since it would be noticeable at any road speed... my wheels are balanced and straight, tires are new and show no abnormal wear or uneveness (temp across the entire band are more or less the same with no hot spots)

How do I tell if my wheel bearings are shot? (aside from the fact I suspect they're original to the car, and have almost 18 years and 236000 km on them) I think I have a "swuare wave" grinding noise when hard cornerig into the left at speeds above 40mph.

I also feel some weird vibrations but I'm certain they're from the rear suspension as I feel it under the seat of my pats and I haven't had any mexican food recently. I was planning on a rear suspension overhaul soon, looks like I might be shopping for wheel bearings too?

[1gr8e39]

That type of vibration points at either thrust arm busings being bad, or of course warped rotors. Since they are both new I would just verify correct installation. The rear rebuild is pretty straightforward, too. I have better luck with pricing putting the kit together myself rather than just ordering the ECS, BAVauto rebuild kits.

[jicaino]

That type of vibration points at either thrust arm busings being bad, or of course warped rotors. Since they are both new I would just verify correct installation. The rear rebuild is pretty straightforward, too. I have better luck with pricing putting the kit together myself rather than just ordering the ECS, BAVauto rebuild kits.

I know, that's unfortunate... I'll take a look at thurst arm bushings again.
I even had a friend torqueing them down with me on the driver's seat, a spec'd weight passenger in the passenger seat, another one in the rear seat, the spec'd weight in the trunk and a full tank. I weight a tad more than the 80kilos spec (120 kg.) So I sat in the driver's seat as to preload the suspension to the actual value it would see in operation.
I guess I'll be taking another look at it.

[1gr8e39]

What is the tire condition? A separated tire could be the culprit for that type of vibration at those speeds as well.

[jicaino]

I got them new less than 6 months ago. All 4 corners.

[crazy4trains]

I hope that after you did all that work you had an alignment performed. If not that could very well be your problem. You can't replace multiple suspension components and not expect alignment geometry to change.

[jicaino]

I hope that after you did all that work you had an alignment performed. If not that could very well be your problem. You can't replace multiple suspension components and not expect alignment geometry to change.

TIS and other manuals says there's no need for realigning if your car was properly aligned before and you didn't touch the steering link and tie rods (which I didn't). I will take it to check that tomorrow, but I don't feel like the car's misaligned. I feel there's something wrong with the front suspension that wasn't like that before. I will check my steering box and other things down there. It feels like something loosened up all of a sudden. In fact I've driven like 3k miles since I refreshed control and thurst arms and this started to happen one week ago.

It could very well be that now that I have fresh control arms other wear items are noticeable worn, or faded out after those new components were installed.

[NordmanMg]

Make sure you placed washers back on the wheel side when you replaced your front control arms,

[StRaNgEdAyS]

TIS and other manuals says there's no need for realigning if your car was properly aligned before and you didn't touch the steering link and tie rods (which I didn't). I will take it to check that tomorrow, but I don't feel like the car's misaligned. I feel there's something wrong with the front suspension that wasn't like that before. I will check my steering box and other things down there. It feels like something loosened up all of a sudden. In fact I've driven like 3k miles since I refreshed control and thurst arms and this started to happen one week ago.

It could very well be that now that I have fresh control arms other wear items are noticeable worn, or faded out after those new components were installed.

Regardless of what DIS says, if you've changed suspension components, a new alignment is necessary. I know that in theory, the values shouldn't change much, but in practice it is a lot more tricky.
Even a small variation in castor or camber will change your toes, so they will be affected. You've replaced the items that keep the wheels in those specs. If they were significantly worn then the alignment would be set to account for the wear error in those components. You've now changed that.

Absinthe makes the tart grow fonder.

[bostonaudi]

A slight misalignment won't cause brake shimmy.

Also have your wheels checked for straightness. I'm in similar boat and don't have much left to replace

You can also check runout of the rotor while installed with a micrometer. It's also possible there's some dirt or debris between the rotor and bearing hub.

[jicaino]

A slight misalignment won't cause brake shimmy.

Also have your wheels checked for straightness. I'm in similar boat and don't have much left to replace.

I know and agree with you. Have you replaced wheel bearings, carriers, brake calipers? Have you checked your steering box? Please direct me to your thread if you can, interested in the full story.

[bostonaudi]

I know and agree with you. Have you replaced wheel bearings, carriers, brake calipers? Have you checked your steering box? Please direct me to your thread if you can, interested in the full story.

I have kept this ordeal to myself, no thread. But I can post any updates here if you wish. I have an 03 540i.

The local tire Place said I had a slight bend on one front inside lip so ordered a brand new MPar wheel, and am replacing both front tires as one of them is semi permanently flat spotted from sitting. My thrust arms are brand new lemforder. My shocks are pretty worn, and right front outer tie rod not looking good so also replacing entire tie rod assembly. So I do have some parts left to replace. It's annoying not having a smooth car.

[Jason5driver]

Sounds you like you are describing bad bearings.

[1gr8e39]

When I originally purchased the Sterling 540i, you guys might remember the PO had gone nutty in preventative maintenance and spent over 25,000 in 17 months at Strictly BMW. IIRC he had done 7 alignments in 17 months, mainly because they performed an alignment after any suspension component replacement. Honestly OP I would've aligned it regardless. Hopefully the lack of alignment hasn't ruined any of the new components. Check With a tape measure, I do home alignments all the time. Just straighten the wheel. Find someone to hold the other ide of the tape. Pick the same spot on both the front and the back side of the tire to have him hold the tape, and string the tape across making sure its as high as possible w/o touching anything. And measure...

[jicaino]

I didn't align it because I replaced all of those components before new year, then hit the road. No alignment shops were working those days.
But the symptoms aren't those of a bad alignment. Also there's no high speed misbehavior or any other symptoms than those exposed above.
I'm leaning towards wheel bearings too, of course I will recheck everything. I have a manual alingment rod that came with a really old car toolset. If there's any alignment issue it's within minutes.
To those saying that new suspension componets could be affected by alignment being off, may I remind you that suspension on any car takes the worst part in the rolling train. Like the knees on your body. Our cars (my car, anyway, a 540i) has an extrordinary beefy front end.
I'm sure a couple of thousand miles on new suspension components are perfectly safe even if the alignment is minutes off.
All of the old parts were worn but not loose or trashed.
I will post my findings here, and I ncourage bostonaudi to contribute, so we can offer hands on experience with this issue. As our cars gets older and hi mileaged, they will have issues. those of us surpassing the 150k miles are, in a way, leading the field in service history.

[XCRN]

I didn't align it because I replaced all of those components before new year, then hit the road. No alignment shops were working those days.
But the symptoms aren't those of a bad alignment. Also there's no high speed misbehavior or any other symptoms than those exposed above.
I'm leaning towards wheel bearings too, of course I will recheck everything. I have a manual alingment rod that came with a really old car toolset. If there's any alignment issue it's within minutes.
To those saying that new suspension componets could be affected by alignment being off, may I remind you that suspension on any car takes the worst part in the rolling train. Like the knees on your body. Our cars (my car, anyway, a 540i) has an extrordinary beefy front end.
I'm sure a couple of thousand miles on new suspension components are perfectly safe even if the alignment is minutes off.
All of the old parts were worn but not loose or trashed.
I will post my findings here, and I ncourage bostonaudi to contribute, so we can offer hands on experience with this issue. As our cars gets older and hi mileaged, they will have issues. those of us surpassing the 150k miles are, in a way, leading the field in service history.

I found out the hard way you need to go to the dealer for an alignment or what I did was go to a local collision shop. I went to a few tire shops with alignment capabilities but would not touch the BMW at all. There are probably some specialist shops that will do it, the collision shop was just walking distance from home so I could drop it off walk home to get other to go to work. I too just last week finished a front end rebuild and got a very violent vibration that an alignment helped a bit but not fixed. I am experiencing a lot o what you have except mine is below 30 typically and there is faint vibration in my seat above but very negligible. I thought I fixed it with rear sway bar end links and I did not. I swapped my winter set back on and it was significantly reduced from my wheels with new tires on the car but there is still something I am feeling. I am thinking it is drive shaft related. So something for you to consider.

[jicaino]

I found out the hard way you need to go to the dealer for an alignment or what I did was go to a local collision shop. I went to a few tire shops with alignment capabilities but would not touch the BMW at all. There are probably some specialist shops that will do it, the collision shop was just walking distance from home so I could drop it off walk home to get other to go to work. I am also experiencing a lot o what you have except mine is below 30 typically and there is faint vibration in my seat above but very negligible. I thought I fixed it with rear sway bar end links and I did not. I swapped my winter set back on and it was significantly reduced from my wheels with new tires on the car but there is still something I am feeling. I am thinking it is drive shaft related. So something for you to consider.

Yes, part of why I didn't have it aligned was because the shops that were available around that date when I replaced everything weren't to be trusted on these cars. My pro guy was on vacation until february, he's 250 miles away from home (at my hometown) and I didn't go back to check on my folks yet so I didn't have the car aligned... YET. I'm not saying I won't bother to align or that's not needed, but it passed inspection with the alignment parameters not even observed or informed as marginally acceptable. I think I'll find worse alignment issues out back (with worn control arms and links) than in the front. Will see, and report back.

Driveshaft: I had it redone and balanced last CV joint replacement, because it seemed like it lasted a short interval of time... Not to say they coulnd't have botched it.
I'll be biting the bullet on bearings/carriers and see what happens. I'm also fearing it could be the shocks. Fearing as in horror, because mine has the EDC shocks and they're like a kidney for the pair.

[James39]

If you have any ticking noise or can feel any imperfection while spinning the rotor, it's bad bearings.

[Yonkers320is]

jicaino, revisa los rulemanes delanteros, y fijate que no hayan puesto los bushings al reves. saludos desde Tucuman

[jicaino]

If you have any ticking noise or can feel any imperfection while spinning the rotor, it's bad bearings.

I do have a ticking noise when cornering hard and at speed into the left. Thanks for kind of confirming my suspicions.

[jicaino]

jicaino, revisa los rulemanes delanteros, y fijate que no hayan puesto los bushings al reves. saludos desde Tucuman

Hola! Ese era mi próximo paso. Cuales cojinetes de todos? Los de brazos inferiores? No tienen derecho o revés, si tienen orientación, pero eso está bien. Los cojinetes de caliper están bien. Estoy sospechando rodamientos y maza o sino calipers con un pistón pegado o algo.
Gracias por la sugerencia, amigo!
(320is E30?)

[jicaino]

Another thing I forgot to report is a tad too much road crown sensitivity (more like overreaction)

[crazy4trains]

TIS and other manuals says there's no need for realigning if your car was properly aligned before and you didn't touch the steering link and tie rods (which I didn't). I will take it to check that tomorrow, but I don't feel like the car's misaligned. I feel there's something wrong with the front suspension that wasn't like that before. I will check my steering box and other things down there. It feels like something loosened up all of a sudden. In fact I've driven like 3k miles since I refreshed control and thurst arms and this started to happen one week ago.

It could very well be that now that I have fresh control arms other wear items are noticeable worn, or faded out after those new components were installed.

That is B.S. When you change a component you change the suspension geometry. It may, or may not, still be in spec but there is no way of knowing.

I replaced my front suspension about a year ago at an indy shop and had a alignment performed at a dealer in Lexington, KY afterward. The person that my indy alignment shop wanted to use at an indy alighment shop was out sick so they sent it, unfortunately, to the dealer. I was getting some vibration at highway speeds still and the steering wheel was off center. I was getting frustrated. I crawled underneath to look around and the clamp nut on the driver side tie rod was loose. I took it back a few weeks later and they re-centered the steering wheel and (hopefully) tightened up everything. The steering wheel was now centered but I was still getting the vibrations.

Fast forward to this past November and I run over an already dead heap of deer in the middle of my lane while taking my daughter to school. There was really nowhere for me to go as I had oncoming traffic in one direction and a ditch to my right. By the time I saw it all I could do is center-up and ride it out. Thankfully the car was drivable and the only damage was underneath the car and only consisted of replacing some of the plastic underbody panels etc. As part of the repair the final piece of work was an alignment. The body shop took it to the local Goodyear shop and had the alignment done. Now 99% of the vibrations are gone. I had numerous people tell me that bad alignment doesn't induce vibrations but I can tell you it does.

That's my $0.02. Use it as you see fit.

[jicaino]

That is B.S. When you change a component you change the suspension geometry. It may, or may not, still be in spec but there is no way of knowing.

I replaced my front suspension about a year ago at an indy shop and had a alignment performed at a dealer in Lexington, KY afterward. The person that my indy alignment shop wanted to use at an indy alighment shop was out sick so they sent it, unfortunately, to the dealer. I was getting some vibration at highway speeds still and the steering wheel was off center. I was getting frustrated. I crawled underneath to look around and the clamp nut on the driver side tie rod was loose. I took it back a few weeks later and they re-centered the steering wheel and (hopefully) tightened up everything. The steering wheel was now centered but I was still getting the vibrations.

Fast forward to this past November and I run over an already dead heap of deer in the middle of my lane while taking my daughter to school. There was really nowhere for me to go as I had oncoming traffic in one direction and a ditch to my right. By the time I saw it all I could do is center-up and ride it out. Thankfully the car was drivable and the only damage was underneath the car and only consisted of replacing some of the plastic underbody panels etc. As part of the repair the final piece of work was an alignment. The body shop took it to the local Goodyear shop and had the alignment done. Now 99% of the vibrations are gone. I had numerous people tell me that bad alignment doesn't induce vibrations but I can tell you it does.

That's my $0.02. Use it as you see fit.

Not saying it doesn't make a difference. I'm saying I skipped it because the shops I could know for sure it will make a difference were out for the holidays.

[philly98540]

Changing toe and camber can change the dynamic forces on the suspension. Those forces can remove play in worn parts while your in motion. That can change the dynamic behavior.