Am I forgetting anything for my stereo upgrade?

[cpandrewschmidt]

Not getting much traction in the audio forum. Thought I'd post this here for the M3 guys.

Done lots of reading and I think I understand how this system all works. Wanted to run my set up by you all to see if I'm missing anything and before i start buying:

Currently: 98 M3 w/ HK. Aftermarket Kenwood Head unit. Previous owner upgraded the front tweets and mids with BSW speakers. I haven't checked the kick panels but I assume he did those too. I think there was an aftermarket amp in the system but I can't confirm.

I bought these 6x9's for the rear
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Plan to buy this Alpine Amp

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_500MRV...g&awug=9018949

I was going to unhook the HK amp in the truck and use those speaker wires to go into the new amp for the 6x9's, front kick panel speakers, mids and tweeters. 4 separate channels. Can I do that? All that wiring should just be able to be cut and go into the new amp, correct? I know the stock rear speakers were technically a mid and tweeter, I would just use the mid wires for the new 6x9s and discard the tweeter wires.

Can I wire in the new amp both rears in one channel, kick panel in one channel, etc mids, tweeters? Or does each speaker need to have it's own channel? I see there are cross overs on the amp. Will those suffice for my purposes?

Thanks, been a while since I've dealt with car stereo stuff.
Andrew

[AJLM34A]

You will need a 3-way crossover for each front (Left front & Right front) and 2-way crossover for each rear(Left rear and Right rear). Most companies do not sell crossovers only, look on woofersetc and CDT crossovers.

[cpandrewschmidt]

You will need a 3-way crossover for each front (Left front & Right front) and 2-way crossover for each rear(Left rear and Right rear). Most companies do not sell crossovers only, look on woofersetc and CDT crossovers.

Ok, so from the existing wires going into the existing amp I wire those through the two crossovers you mentioned first, then new speaker wire into the new amp? What carries the sound back to the speakers from the new amp? Do i have to run new wires back through the car? I tried to make a wiring diagram attached.
amp.png

[kevinwilly]

Ok, there are four channels going INTO the stock amp. You'd run those four channels into your new amp.

There are 10 channels coming OUT of your stock amp. You can use those to carry sound to your various speakers.

Your rears, since you are using 6x9's can just go in there without a crossover (unless you are doing component 6x9's, your link is broken). So pick either the original woofer or tweeter wires to hook up to your rear channel amp output and hook the 6x9's into whichever you chose. I'd use the woofer wires, personally.

The fronts are a little more tricky since the stock amp has internal crossovers and the new one won't.

So the output from your new amp's front channels will go into two 3-way crossovers. One for the front left channel and one for the front right channel. Then on the output of those crossovers hook up the wires that originally came out of the stock amp going to the front speakers.

[AJLM34A]

I would run RCA's from your Kenwood radio to your Alpine amp. Look at a good set of Stingers for 4 channel;
http://www.woofersetc.com/c-169-inst...ect-cable.html

Here are the wires for the left and right speakers. GE color = yellow

Screen Shot 2017-02-23 at 12.50.05 PM.pngScreen Shot 2017-02-23 at 12.50.19 PM.png

Here is how I mounted my front crossovers to the stock amp bracket.

CDT X over.JPG


For whatever reason if I click your link for the 6x9s, it redirects to a page not found. I would just run some good speaker wire from your amp to the 6x9s.

[kevinwilly]

I would run RCA's from your Kenwood radio to your Alpine amp. Look at a good set of Stingers for 4 channel;
http://www.woofersetc.com/c-169-inst...ect-cable.html

Here are the wires for the left and right speakers. GE color = yellow

Screen Shot 2017-02-23 at 12.50.05 PM.pngScreen Shot 2017-02-23 at 12.50.19 PM.png

Here is how I mounted my front crossovers to the stock amp bracket.

CDT X over.JPG


For whatever reason if I click your link for the 6x9s, it redirects to a page not found. I would just run some good speaker wire from your amp to the 6x9s.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that if you have pre-outs on your kenwood you should run RCA's back. The cd43 I am using doesn't have pre-outs or I would certainly have run cables back to my amp when I had everything in the car torn apart.

[cpandrewschmidt]

Thanks all, this is starting to make sense! hmm, not sure why links died. Here they are again, hopefully this works

http://alpine-usa.com/product/view/mrv-f300/ amp

https://www.amazon.com/JBL-GTO938-9-...ywords=jbl+6x9 6x9


kenwood head unit is
https://www.amazon.com/Kenwood-KDC-X...ct_top?ie=UTF8

Looks like it has the RCAs (i haven't pulled it out yet) Why are RCAs better vs just using the existing inputs from the old amp into the new amp? Then I don't have to re-run wires. I probably would anyway as I plan to add a small sub on its own dedicated amp. I know I'll need to run a set of RCAs anyway for that, but just curious.

Guess my question now is can I keep all 3 front speakers (kick, mid, tweeter) with a 4 channel amp, or would I need a 5 if I'm understanding correctly?

Rear speaker outputs from new amp, 2 channels used for left and right 6x9s.
Front speakers:
left, 1 amp channel spliced into 1 - 3 way crossover to left tweeter, mid, kick
right, 1 amp channel into 1 - 3 way crossover to right tweeter, mid, kick

or do I need to go:
5 channel amp
2 channels for rear left and right
1 channel amp to crossover for front left and right tweeter
1 channel amp to crossover for front left and right mid
1 channel amp to crossover for front left and right kick

Thanks! Guess speakers got more complicated since I wired my old station wagon for subs in 1998 in highschool
Andrew

[AJLM34A]

RCAs are low level input and a cleaner signal than speaker level input into an amp. Amps have speaker wire input for when you have to use a factory radio.

Your Kenwood specs, "outputs: 6-channel preamp outputs (4-volt front, rear, and sub)" so you will have to run an RCA for the sub any way, get a Stinger 6 channel RCA an be done with it. You should just shop for a 5/6 channel amp and do it all at once and be done with it.

[cpandrewschmidt]

RCAs are low level input and a cleaner signal than speaker level input into an amp. Amps have speaker wire input for when you have to use a factory radio.

Your Kenwood specs, "outputs: 6-channel preamp outputs (4-volt front, rear, and sub)" so you will have to run an RCA for the sub any way, get a Stinger 6 channel RCA an be done with it. You should just shop for a 5/6 channel amp and do it all at once and be done with it.

Sounds good. So you're saying then I hook up like scenario #2? Again, thanks for all your help!
5/6 channel amp
2 channels for rear left and right
1 channel amp to crossover for front left and right tweeter
1 channel amp to crossover for front left and right mid
1 channel amp to crossover for front left and right kick
1 channel future sub

and in this case I only need 1, 3 way crossover for front speakers?

[AJLM34A]

Sounds good. So you're saying then I hook up like scenario #2? Again, thanks for all your help!
5/6 channel amp
2 channels for rear left and right
1 channel amp to crossover for front left and right tweeter
1 channel amp to crossover for front left and right mid
1 channel amp to crossover for front left and right kick
1 channel future sub

and in this case I only need 1, 3 way crossover for front speakers?

5/6 channel amp
1 channel for rear left
1 channel to rear right
1 channel amp to left front 3-way crossover
1 channel amp to right front 3-way crossover
The remaining 2 channels on 5/6 channel amps are for the sub(s)
1 channel sub
1 channel sub

You will need qty 2, 3-way crossovers for the front speakers.

Do not run a 5/6 channel amp with only 4 channels being used, so if you do not want a sub now, get a 4 channel amp.

[Pyropete82]

Run 3 amps. 300RMS 4 channel bridged for your kick panel speakers, head unit to door speakers with a crossover, 2 channel 200RMS to the rears and a monoblock amp with a 2ohm 500 watt RMS- run a 4ohm 12" sub DVC vented in the trunk.
You'll thank me, but this will cost somewhere in neighborhood of $1000 if you install yourself.

Pull all the stock wire out, run 14awg and run the head unit on RCAs straight to the amp. Obviously this setup would have way more juice than you probably want, but you'll never revisit the setup


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[Baby ///M3]

You can also save two channels by ditching the rear speakers, as they don't really provide much in terms of SQ.

Run a three-way active setup in the front and one or two subs with two four-channel amps.

I have the following setup:

Denon DCT-1 black faced deck
Denon 12 disc CD changer
Brax Matrix three-way front speakers
Brax Matrix subwoofer
Brax Multicontroller
Brax Matrix MX4 amplifier
Helix DSP Pro
Helix DIRECTOR remote



Jon

[cpandrewschmidt]

5/6 channel amp
1 channel for rear left
1 channel to rear right
1 channel amp to left front 3-way crossover
1 channel amp to right front 3-way crossover
The remaining 2 channels on 5/6 channel amps are for the sub(s)
1 channel sub
1 channel sub

You will need qty 2, 3-way crossovers for the front speakers.

Do not run a 5/6 channel amp with only 4 channels being used, so if you do not want a sub now, get a 4 channel amp.

Thanks everyone. Very helpful! I don't need crazy sound so I'll probably just go this route and add the sub with dedicated mono amp later on if I feel I need one.

[kevinwilly]

Do not run a 5/6 channel amp with only 4 channels being used, so if you do not want a sub now, get a 4 channel amp.

Just curious what makes you say this, exactly? Aside from being a slight waste of money, there's no reason not to run only 4 channels of a 5 or 6 channel amp.

[AJLM34A]

Just curious what makes you say this, exactly? Aside from being a slight waste of money, there's no reason not to run only 4 channels of a 5 or 6 channel amp.

Amplifiers need to have a load/speaker connected to them or they can build up too much heat and burn out circuitry. Old tube amplifiers this was critical. Most newer home and car audio amps should have some sort of protection built in to either shut the channel or the amp off to protect it, but I would not risk it. I was going to buy a used JL 500/5 from a guy locally that the speaker sub out was not used, but the sub RCA out was supplying signal to another JL amp, and the sub out speaker level had 0 output.

[cpandrewschmidt]

just to double check, i want 2-3 way passive crossovers, right? Because the wire in after the amp, right?

[Pyropete82]

After amp is correct, 3 way if you plan to use 3 speakers


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[kevinwilly]

Amplifiers need to have a load/speaker connected to them or they can build up too much heat and burn out circuitry. Old tube amplifiers this was critical. Most newer home and car audio amps should have some sort of protection built in to either shut the channel or the amp off to protect it, but I would not risk it. I was going to buy a used JL 500/5 from a guy locally that the speaker sub out was not used, but the sub RCA out was supplying signal to another JL amp, and the sub out speaker level had 0 output.

Right, this was a thing back when tube amps were a thing.... but solid state amps don't have this problem. At all, really. You won't harm anything by leaving a channel open.

[tsmith25]

I saw this thread, and thought I would ask here instead of starting a new thread.

I am trying to piece mine back together from a previous owner. Do any of you know where to find a wire color/ routing diagram? I have googled it and found a few things that don't match up. I just have the front three speakers currently with blown mid ranges though... my plan since the most recent previous owner wired some speaker wire directly from the head unit to the kick-panels is to connect that to the rear channels, and then wire the front to the factory plug adapter and run the mid and tweeter through the factory amp. I read somewhere that the front channels amp is on the passenger C-pillar, is that correct?

[cpandrewschmidt]

this wiring diagram is for the HK system and seems to follow what I have in the trunk

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...x9-wiring-HELP!

[AJLM34A]

I read somewhere that the front channels amp is on the passenger C-pillar, is that correct?

No, the factory amp in the trunk, drivers side just over the wheel well. The modules that are in the C-pillars are for the AM/FM antenna.

[tsmith25]

Thanks guys. That helps a lot.

[tsmith25]

Next question... should the harness plug to the amp be the same for both the hk and non-hk stereos?

I went to look in my trunk yesterday, after finding out the correct location, and the factory amp is gone. Lucky for me there is someone parting out a car so I am picking up his speakers and amp. should I ask him to cut off the amp plug too?

[AJLM34A]

Go to this link and double click on 6510.1;

http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/19...g%20Manual.pdf

The amp has 2 connections, x605 and x606 which are the same for HK(top HiFi) and regular amp. The only difference in wiring should be for the useless HK switch wiring.

[tsmith25]

Is the HK switch the one by the ASC button in front of the shift lever? What exactly is it supposed to do? does it turn the gain down on the low freq channels, or something like that?