NASATime Trialing an E36 M3 - what class and what do you spend your points on?

[MemphisRob]

I am planning to make the leap to NASA TT this year.

I bought my E36M3 last year with some work done already and I have spent quite a bit of time taking care of a lot of the gremlins it had. I am now at the point to figure out how to set it up.

I am in Memphis and our local NASA MidSouth has a pretty decent field in TTD. With the generous Maxxis contingency on tires I would like to stay in TTD.

The E36M3 is TTD with one *... so I get 12 points to play with

So, the car came to me with...
1.) PSS Coilovers... these are 15+ year old E36 non-M3 ones so the sways are not linked to the strut/coilover...so that hits me for +3 for struts, +2 for springs, and +2 more for non-stock sways.
2.) Cat delete and Borla exhaust... so that is +3

That is +10 right there.

Now tires I am pretty set on Maxxis which are +4 (which I think are points well spent after running some 235 RC1's at DE's last year)

That means I am "stuck" running 225's to get the -4 points for being 20mm narrower than class limit (245mm).

This leaves me with 2 points... which could be headers, but the jury seems out on if they are even worth doing for a NA car.

The other thought in my mind is to find a stock exhaust and swap it on so I could run Maxxis 255 RC1s.

Opinions? How are you spending your points?

[Pat533i]

A lot of guys on the eastcoast have gotten the one * taken away by dyno re classing. Not really sure why this works but worth a try for 7 more point to play with. (then you could run 225 R7)

I would upgrade your coilovers if your budget allows. A good double adjustable kit will allow you to get the most out of your setup.

Also keep an eye out for a 3.38 or higher rear end. Since you can't do much for power mods in TTD, gearing will help alot. (and no points assessed)

[MemphisRob]

A lot of guys on the eastcoast have gotten the one * taken away by dyno re classing. Not really sure why this works but worth a try for 7 more point to play with. (then you could run 225 R7)

I would upgrade your coilovers if your budget allows. A good double adjustable kit will allow you to get the most out of your setup.

Also keep an eye out for a 3.38 or higher rear end. Since you can't do much for power mods in TTD, gearing will help alot. (and no points assessed)

Dyno reclassing to remove the *? I'm a newb... but I didn't even know that was a thing. 7 points would be HUGE!!

I actually can pick up a 3.38 diff for $300 from a guy I know. I am still considering it.

[jhott66]

If you think you will be competitive get rid of the exhaust and go back to stock. Free up the points for tires.
E36 m3 in TTD is basically tires and suspension.


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[VaTechE36]

There was just a thread about dyno reclassing not too long ago. It essentially allows you swap your car over to power to weight ratio for the class so any of your power mod points would go away and you're only left with suspension and tire points to contend with. I think that is how it would work. I would 100% look into that option as that single * is a killer for trying to keep the car in TTD.

[jhott66]

You still need to meet the weight/power ratio of your car's base class even with a "dyno reclass".
So, go ahead and add a bunch of power but you then must add weight to get to base class, TTD in case of e36 M3, weight/power ratio.
Just to clarify, it's a weight/power ratio not power/ratio.
At the end of the day no matter what you do an E36 M3 in TTD is basically a tires and suspension formula.
Dyno reclass allows flexibility with tires and chassis reinforcement stuff.


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[darbyfam]

Also, you need to look at your car and see if you have to take aero points. NASA only allows the aero from the base model, everything else is considered a modification. Do you have factory lip and/or spoiler?

[alwaysinboost]

There is def more than one way to setup an e36m3 for TTD. Both points based and dyno-reclass have their advantages and disadvantages... choose your path wisely.

[klodkrawler05]

if I'm reading correctly are you running stock m3 sway bars but to the control arms instead of to the strut?

That seems like a terrible way to lose 2 points as now you're taking points for "upgraded" sway bars when the setup you are using has actually resulted in softer than stock sway bars.

Just my .02, I'm not privvy on all the nuances of the letter class TT rules so take that advice as being worth what you paid for it

[Team Neverlift]

if I'm reading correctly are you running stock m3 sway bars but to the control arms instead of to the strut?

That seems like a terrible way to lose 2 points as now you're taking points for "upgraded" sway bars when the setup you are using has actually resulted in softer than stock sway bars.

Control arm end link would actually increase the effective roll resistance vs M3 strut connection. I did the reverse recently as I loath stabilizer bars (thats what springs are for), but accept it as being necessary (to remove preload) on a car still using OE replacement dampers/springs below stock height.

[klodkrawler05]

Control arm end link would actually increase the effective roll resistance vs M3 strut connection. I did the reverse recently as I loath stabilizer bars (thats what springs are for), but accept it as being necessary (to remove preload) on a car still using OE replacement dampers/springs below stock height.

Perhaps I'm thinking of it backwards then. If the control arm is the lever and the fulcrum is the pivot point of the control arm then the closer the endlink mounts to the wheel (the effort) the greater the effective wheel rate of the swaybar.

I thought that's why the non-M sway bars were thicker than the M due to the difference in mounting location they required a stiffer sway bar to generate the same amount of roll control.

[Team Neverlift]

Perhaps I'm thinking of it backwards then. If the control arm is the lever and the fulcrum is the pivot point of the control arm then the closer the endlink mounts to the wheel (the effort) the greater the effective wheel rate of the swaybar.

I thought that's why the non-M sway bars were thicker than the M due to the difference in mounting location they required a stiffer sway bar to generate the same amount of roll control.

You may be correct here as the connection location on the control arm is an excellent point. However, if spring rate is chosen correctly (M3) the need for a large bar is minimized (compounded by factory staggered wheels).The springs will handle the suspension oscillations. Strut mounted end links do not appreciate large sway bars, and are chronicled to break those mounting locations.

The design of the M3 end link certainly removes bind, and may increase turn in response, I am realizing is likely due to increased effectiveness. Thanks for this discussion.

[MemphisRob]

A lot of guys on the eastcoast have gotten the one * taken away by dyno re classing. Not really sure why this works but worth a try for 7 more point to play with. (then you could run 225 R7)

I would upgrade your coilovers if your budget allows. A good double adjustable kit will allow you to get the most out of your setup.

Also keep an eye out for a 3.38 or higher rear end. Since you can't do much for power mods in TTD, gearing will help alot. (and no points assessed)

Ok, I had my car dyno'd today and my 3 runs with a catless exhaust were 215/218/220. Weight was 3155 with me in it. You think that would be eligible for a reclass to lose the *?

Also, I was reading the rules and it reads changed or modified LSD is +1. So "cheap" points but it is assessed .

Lastly.. looking at the rules... how exactly should my car qualify for a dyno reclass... it doesn't seem to meet any of the official criteria.. the last part is where I would assume it would have to apply since the first 4 are not applicable.

The following rules apply to:Cars that have:
1) An added, modified, or upgraded turbocharger or supercharger.
2) Non-BTM head(s) or increased number of camshafts (hybrid engines).
3) An engine swap that has been designated as requiring dynamometer testing by the National TT Director (almost all swaps)
4) A Rotary Engine that has been ported.
And:All other vehicles that have been designated by the National TT Director to be classed basedupon dynamometer testing. A driver/owner may submit a request for a Dyno Re-class for avehicle that does have one of the above four situations that requires one, but it may not beapproved. (Note: only NASA members may request a reclassification from the National TTDirector)

[Pat533i]

Pretty sure you have too much power and to little weight. You allready need to take 20lb reduction points. So you would need to add a bit of ballast for reclass.

As as for the diff, you are allowed to change the ratio for no points. If you changed the ramp angles, number of clutches, ect. Then you need to take a point.

[MemphisRob]

Pretty sure you have too much power and to little weight. You allready need to take 20lb reduction points. So you would need to add a bit of ballast for reclass.

As as for the diff, you are allowed to change the ratio for no points. If you changed the ramp angles, number of clutches, ect. Then you need to take a point.

I weighed the car without the passenger seat and passenger harness... so all I need to do is put it back in for the extra 20lbs. Thanks for the heads up on the diff rule. I am strongly considering that 3.38.

Also, there is a tire size points modification of +.8 for 245 or smaller and +.4 for 250-275. The way I am reading this means I could be about 100lbs lighter with 245's or smaller?

[DocWyte]

245's are the base class tire, no points either way. I get tire points back when I use 235's.

Watch your fuel load if you're that close to the weight limit...

[MemphisRob]

245's are the base class tire, no points either way. I get tire points back when I use 235's.

Watch your fuel load if you're that close to the weight limit...

I have pretty well memorized all the tire options and points... I am considering 4 combinations depending on what exhaust I end up with.

What I am talking about with tires is the +.4 or +.8 modifier depending on tire size when calculating minimum weight to power ratio.