Serious contender for the Dead Pool.....

[XAlt]

Well it doesn't stick up so you'll just have to run with no hood. And for full effect yell "I am the night rider"
Or drive with a hood and the stereo on. And instead of max chasing you, just to police.

Clutch driven baby

[wagons ho]

Meanwhile, back at that other supercharger build, I've been stuck with a predetermined workload that prevents any time for this.Attachment 601864


I knew when the shop delayed doing version 2.0 of the adapters, that they would come back correct at the worst time.
And they knew that also as i do work for them.
One more week, and i should be able to make more progress.

- - - Updated - - -

I got a new phone and all my pics are rotated now. Sorry.

[Kenny1958]

I'm pleased to see this happening Ho the work looks fantastic let's hope not too many engines die.

[wagons ho]

Attachment 605974
It is sobering to see how time goes by. 2 months and all i did is get the hood shut.
But my measurements were close and it does shut. Of course there's not much room and it might hit under load. Best approx. measure is a 1/4" with hood pad gone.
But on to intercooler pump and wiring, hose routing and radiator.
Attachment 605975

[Kenny1958]

Looking good there, when do you think you'll be at the fire it up stage ?

[philly98540]

Slow but great progress! 1/4" is close!

[tptrsn]

Compared to me you've been FLYING during that timeframe...

I'd say you've made good progress!

[geargrinder]

Wow. That's gotta be a tight fit! Maybe find some thinner than OEM hoodpad something to line the hood above the blower with. Some kind of thin dense temp-compatible rubber mat or something.

[philly98540]

No easy way to lower the motor mounts.

[tptrsn]

RevShift makes urethane ones of different durometers I think. I wonder if they could make some "low sitters?"

[wagons ho]

Since it has only been 10hrs since its been under the hood, i haven't had time for too many creative ideas.
One method would be to shim the whole subframe down. Or mill down around the stud on the rubber motor mount. Got plenty of bad ones to cut apart and check for strength after modding.
I am going to run the regapped mystery motor with a regular intake to check performance and oil consumption before bolting it on.
But the engine will be installed with the modified wiring harness, and all other brackets, etc. in place. Then it will be a simple bolt on

[JimLev]

Attachment 605975

Looks real good, should have came from the factory with that option.

[tptrsn]

We need an update on this!! I have a feeling there are some interesting details to be had.

[wagons ho]

Let's go back to the beginning of my BMW enthusiast life.
I was looking for a new car model to satisfy my performance and use needs.
Obviously a 540 wagon.
Bought a nice one. Realized that they are way different than everything else I've owned and bought another one to work on.
Jump forward and got convinced that BMW people are more respectful and helpful than the old car dinosaurs I've known, and joined BF.
Moving on, I decided to build the aforementioned supercharger kit for "fun". Got the geargrinder welcome of; everyone else tried and failed, and you think you can do better. I'm paraphrasing. I now know that that is standard operating procedure from the forum master.
Progress on my install, I'm excited, jag blower motors blowing up, new problems, get more cores, build engines, pay money for cnc work, even when it's wrong by them, design and build fuel rails modify everything, sometimes twice.
More money, more time.
I start to think I should build a kit and sell a couple to offset costs. After all, the s/c units are on eBay for cheap, new. I go to buy one or two more and discover that someone has made a deal for all of them. So i scramble to buy all the lonely ones that are floating around and amass 7. And the guy buying them all want to get in on my installation kit.
Deal falls thru, back on eBay, but had to recover from buying inventory that could have waited. But now I know how many units I'm building for.
I'm starting to think that having all the pictures out there of every detail is not a good idea, so some got deleted.
As a point of reference, when building my unit, I reviewed all posts by other people like toolman, and found none of the critical areas where I needed inspiration.
Then deadpool, sometimes fun, sometimes not so, but I'm a big boy. Tptrsn wins!!
Desire meets reality, more costs ,more time. And now other people are going to build an s/c kit. But really, the market is so small that the dream is probably overstated. And not by copying me. I know what awaits them. I no longer care about the money of selling a kit (but will Just for the fun of it) because business opportunities had changed for me and life is good. Spare time is less. It's the economy right now, those that do things are swamped.

So where are we right now? Mechanically done. Next money is on a standalone dme and tuning. With the hope that whatever parameters work can be copied to a factory ecu.
I look forward to your comments.

[tptrsn]

Jump forward and got convinced that BMW people are more respectful and helpful than the old car dinosaurs I've known, and joined BF.c.

Someone was pulling your leg, huh? Lol

Anyway, aside from the fact that I don't think I win -- PhillyChris is winning in my book, and I'm nothing more than a cheerleader for you guys at this point -- I'm glad you're still in the game! And I know many of us are pulling for you to get this deal together for sale. However, if you want to play this forum game, you need to realize that entertaining us with pics is part of it. It's actually super easy to simply upload them onto the forums webspace, so it isn't even a PITA.

Question(s): Why are you choosing a standalone DME for your install (into a non-bimmer still, right?)? Simply for the ability to provide a more complete blower kit than has been available, or some other reason? Another option for people who don't have to deal with OBD inspections and whatnot is to run an MS3X. I'm happy to share my tunes, which at the very least get you started off on a running start that will protect your engine more than a DME probably will. I say probably because I do not run knock sensors, but the people who have blown up their M62s do run them... Draw your own conclusions! Lol

How goes the transmission solution?

Oh, one more question: Was the other buyer of the superchargers another guy with M62 aspirations, or something different?

[wagons ho]

One reason for the standalone dme is to be able to run the engine on a run stand. Having an additional use for it makes the cost easier to justify.
Since I won't be doing the tuning, I have listened to the advice of others, who all say DTA fast is the way to go.
Some systems go back to a base tune when power is shut off, like at tech inspection at a track. Can't have that.
Unfortunately there is no price list for programming, so no budget can be made. Just buy the best system and start paying.
The other buyer for the group of s/c units only wanted them for the lamanova core heat exchanger technology.
He is a major player in the aftermarket s/c business.
And no, nothing for BMW, but he did think that the rich bastards with bmw's should be willing to pay big bucks for one. Tried to convince him otherwise, insisting that the cars are not worth enough and market is so small.

Of course no comments, but my comment to them is, design something, make it, get back to me on how it went.

[tptrsn]

Ok, I get you now. When you said stadalone DME, you just meant a standalone engine control of some sort. I thought you meant actually taking a DME -- presumably the ME7.2 DME -- and using it outside of a BMW car, such as in your Cuda. I thought that might be a good way to go, since then you would have a tune available for the potential buyers of your kit who are mostly going to be ME7.2 owners I would think. There is inexpensive tuning software available for the ME7.2, that **MAY** make it as easy to tune that DME as it is to use RomRaider to tune the MS41.1s like I did in my E36. Geargrinder is probably the guy to ask about that if you care to know.

If you are wanting to use the throttle by wire from the TU engines, then I agree with your logic to use something that has a really strong facility for that. I don't know if DTA Fast is that, but hopefully whoever told you that actually does know. Otherwise, I think it makes most sense at this point to use an MS3 based product, since several of us have run non-TU engines on it, it's relatively inexpensive, and overall it's awesome if you don't need TBW. If you end up going that way, you are welcome to any of my tunes, and adapting them to near-perfection in your application will be easy.

There are a couple other down sides to the MS3 based options, so if you're looking at other standalones, I would look for something that doesn't have these shortcomings if at all possible. They are:

1) No internal coil drivers. So you have to build coil driver circuits like I did, or you need to switch to a different coil like an Audi R8 coil or something.

2) VANOS control may not be well-documented, although it may and I just haven't looked for it. The on/off style of VANOS should be extremely easy to setup in TunerStudio, which is the phenomenal tuning software that is used with the MS based products, but if you want to run a TU engine, you probably would want to look into that.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

You didn't say anything about the trans adapter part of the project, how is that coming? And is the trans you're looking to use a 47rh or 47re (or whatever the other style of numerical designation might be for one of those)?

[geargrinder]

I can pull the OEM VANOS control maps for you 'Ho man, so you have an idea of what the stock DME is doing. Its not on-off exactly but but ramps to on quickly through the mid-rpms, then back off again. Different maps for WOT and cruise IIRC. Let me pull what I can and try to make it easily readable for your tuner to see in case it helps. (unless he has it already which... let me know and it'll save me the trubble...) I have wondered if some VANOS tweaking might help w/ the boosted cars... I don't think the kit-tuners have messed w/ it at all but I can't be sure, not having broken down VF/Dinan/ESS M7.2 tunes...

[scottieducati]

I f*ckin love all you crazies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tptrsn]

I can pull the OEM VANOS control maps for you 'Ho man, so you have an idea of what the stock DME is doing. Its not on-off exactly but but ramps to on quickly through the mid-rpms, then back off again. Different maps for WOT and cruise IIRC. Let me pull what I can and try to make it easily readable for your tuner to see in case it helps. (unless he has it already which... let me know and it'll save me the trubble...) I have wondered if some VANOS tweaking might help w/ the boosted cars... I don't think the kit-tuners have messed w/ it at all but I can't be sure, not having broken down VF/Dinan/ESS M7.2 tunes...

From what you are seeing so far, is the ME7.2 sufficiently tunable that it might not make sense to go away from it to a standalone, especially for a relatively linear boost curve from a blower? Or do you see serious shortcomings?

Using RomRaider with the MS41.1 that I did, it really was a very good platform, even for a turbocharged setup.

One thing that I found in the M5.2 tune was a global scaling constant, that allowed me to make a blanket adjustment across all maps for changing injector size. I honestly can't remember if I ever knew where that was in the RomRaider'ed 41.1 tune or not...

[geargrinder]

T - I think if you had really all the info it'd be fine probably... for a linear blower setup, it'd prob run super smooth and factory like as long as you get to a few key maps.

The evidence is I think in how easily the centri-blower kits run w/ relatively light tweaks.

But... the trick is finding the maps, there's no public XDF out there for anything, there's one WinOLS example but its for an 'oddball' E53 variant of the flash which is different than the common E38/39 flashes (stuff ain't in same place.. I've spent time trying to matchy match track maps down but its painstaking and not particularly rewarding...)

There's no decent aftermarket software that I am aware of for it... The only products I've seen are in between very limited and full of gaps or mistakes. Just ask anybody if they are going to tell you where, say, the injector global scalar and latency tables are... or the MAF master voltage-air-mass table is... etc.

Now there may be some big-bucks pro-tuner package that has it folded in and is OK (ex: I dunno maybe theres a new native WinOLS Mappack they have for it now...) but even then I'd be surprised given how slim it is to find guys who can do it... normally if you're on a big bucks platform its like another $300-500 of 'credits' or whatever to get a new ECU map set and you'd think more guys would be willing to do that to get the platform added to their arsenal.

I was hoping some day to make some 'basic XDF with the most important stuff for one program variant' but goddamn its painstaking PITA... even finding things in the native German in the DAMOS is a huge PITA, then you have to map it over to a mainstream version of the flash... really painful...

I think Ho mans approach of Priority 1 get a standalone tuned, then maybe possibly Priority 2 see if it can be mapped back is a good one...

[wagons ho]

As you know, I'm way out of any expertise in the whole tuning thing. I've been talking to many domestic fanatics who have much more availability of info and support.
One idea thrown out is simply replacing the 0-5v mass air signal to a map to allow for boost. They make it sound so easy.
For now, I'm still dealing with ME5, and ME5.2 and non vanos, if I'm using the factory dme.

[tptrsn]

That's a bummer about the state of ME7.2 tuning software.

Ho, between PhillyChris and me there is a bit of knowledge base for tuning the M5.2 and M5.2.1 DMEs, but I would say it's fading fast. I know my knowledge of the M5.2 is going out the window super fast (or may be mostly gone at this point), and I don't think Chris has had any cause for staying more current than I have.

Regarding the losing of the MAF, if what you meant is to simply replace the MAF with a 0-5V MAP sensor directly within the DME tune, it will NOT work. If you meant to use a non-MAF solution with another standalone, that is exactly what I did with my turbo build, and it was super nice. I feel that the linearity of the supercharger boost curve makes it less necessary than it is with a turbo, but it will certainly work great. Whether it is easier or not to tune a SD tune with a MAP sensor over a MAF tune is open for debate. I'm a died in the wool SD guy, and I don't even know if I think it's better than a MAF. But it's definitely more familiar to many of us.

[philly98540]

I'm still hanging on to the cob webs of knowledge I have on the old M5.2 DME's. I spent a lot of time decoding the maps and have a decently good grasp of what tables do what. I have plans for future changes, but life is in the way and the car runs damn good, so its sitting on the back burner for now. I still need some tidbits from you Thad to help me. Like what bits turn off adaptions and some other things that escape me atm.

I'd like to revise to a different scaled MAF and table to get full airflow readings in the upper RPM's. Right now, my MAF pegs somewhere around 4.5k rpms or so iirc. This makes the winter and summer AFR vary a bit up top. Tune leans out in winter and richens in summer (likely a good thing), since the blower output goes down with higher ambient temps, but the DME has no clue about it and squirts in a recipe amount of fuel. This leaves some power on the table in summer, but its safe. Less an issue now with the intercooler though. Not a big deal, but something I want to do when time frees up. Also, I have a very slight lean out at light cruise after a cold start. Only lasts for a few blocks. AFR goes to like 15.8 or so, and causes a slight un-smooth feel as the engine really needs to be slightly rich at those times. Minor quibble. I believe I found the right table to tweak, but did not do it as yet. Also, may totally re-do the primary fuel maps and revert them closer to stock and them modify the global injector scaler to account for the 42 pounders vs the 19 pound stockers. Right now, the global scaler is stock, with the fuel maps adjusted. If I switch to the other way and use the global scaler, the overall tune may work better when some of the oddball tables are used by the DME. You seemed to have good luck with using the scaler and keeping base maps closer to stock. Please keep your notes on this DME for me.

[tptrsn]

I still need some tidbits from you Thad to help me. Like what bits turn off adaptions and some other things that escape me atm.
. . . If I switch to the other way and use the global scaler, the overall tune may work better when some of the oddball tables are used by the DME. You seemed to have good luck with using the scaler and keeping base maps closer to stock. Please keep your notes on this DME for me.

Uuuuuummmmmmmmmmm.... I was hoping you still had that stuff, Lol. The more I think about it, the more I am realizing that I may not have a clue anymore..