Z214 vs Toyo RR

[aeronaut]

Normally run NT01s, but for at least one set, I want to step up to a stickier tire and see how I like them. I've narrowed it down to the Hancook Ventus Z214 (C71) and Toyo RR. I've read about the RR's splitting issue, and will accept the risk.

Car is a 3000lb E36 M3.

Honestly, I've pretty much settled on the Toyo RR's, but those Z214s look tempting.

Thoughts?

[Pelican Parts]

Haven't heard about the RR's splitting issues (thanks for the heads-up) - I was going to suggest the Hancook tires, as I have a buddy that ran them on his e92 m3. Other members may suggest other options as well. Best of luck!


-Dmitry

[MauiM3Mania]

For what sort of usage?

[aeronaut]

Haven't heard about the RR's splitting issues (thanks for the heads-up) - I was going to suggest the Hancook tires, as I have a buddy that ran them on his e92 m3. Other members may suggest other options as well. Best of luck!


-Dmitry

Thanks. I've read that the splitting issue was fixed after early production runs, but Toyo still advises a very particular mounting position depending on fwd or rwd.
For the record, here's Toyo's Advisory: https://www.tirerack.com/images/pdf/...mendations.pdf

- - - Updated - - -

For what sort of usage?

HPDE. Advanced/instructor/forthefunofit.

[lcrain]

Interested as well. Also interested in a comparison of longevity of the two. I know it will vary with multiple variables but if someone has tried both, I would be interested to see the results.

[aeronaut]

I ordered a set or RR's. I have a lot of time and data on NT01's, so at least I can make that comparison.

[19Spec3]

I ordered a set or RR's. I have a lot of time and data on NT01's, so at least I can make that comparison.

That's the Spec3 class tire, though I doubt you got it in 225/50/15 for your M3. Hope you like the RR's!

[aeronaut]

Yea, thought I'd see how I like the Spec tire. Got it in the typical 235/40/17 for the E36 M.

[lcrain]

I enjoyed the RRs on a miata. My m3 has about 3 times the power as an NA miata though, so different driving experiences. Killed a set of nt01s this past weekend. I really like them but if I can get similar useful life (20-25 heat cycles) out of a stickier tire, I will go that way. Considering the RR in 255/40 and the z214 c71 (medium compound) in 245/40.

[aeronaut]

I've read extremely differing views on the tire life of the NT01 vs RR. Everything from RR lasts 1/2 as long, to as long as the NT01.I've gone through 4 sets on NT01s so know pretty well how they run and wear.

[chris1866]

The RR is a perfect tire for your purposes. Predictable and pretty consistent until after 20 heat cycles. Very much like an NT01 in the way it behaves, just more grip.
The Hankook Z214 is excellent, though you'd want the C51 compound (C71 is very soft, intended for autocross). This is a faster tire than the RR, but it will drop off after 7-8 cycles. This is a very popular race tire because it's cheaper than the hoosier but the performance is comparable.
But for a DE tire, the RR is the way to go. Lasts longer and is more consistent (though not quite as fast outright).

[DocWyte]

I picked up a set of RR's for this coming season. I've been curious to try them for awhile, as I've run alot of NT01/RA1 in the past.

[aeronaut]

We'll have to compare notes.

[irollt5r]

The RR is a perfect tire for your purposes. Predictable and pretty consistent until after 20 heat cycles. Very much like an NT01 in the way it behaves, just more grip.
The Hankook Z214 is excellent, though you'd want the C51 compound (C71 is very soft, intended for autocross). This is a faster tire than the RR, but it will drop off after 7-8 cycles. This is a very popular race tire because it's cheaper than the hoosier but the performance is comparable.
But for a DE tire, the RR is the way to go. Lasts longer and is more consistent (though not quite as fast outright).

For the most part, I would agree with the above assessment. And you definitely want the Z214 in C51 compound, not C71.

The RR is a more consistent tire but having run both in a racing setting, I can say that it is possible to run the RR in 255/40-17 (on a 9" rim) within less than 1/2 second of the Z214 245/40-17 (on an 8.5" rim) on the same track AND with both tires having less than 4 heat cycles on them. However, that 255 RR is significantly wider than the 245 Z214. I believe a 235 RR on an 8.5" wheel would probably be a closer comparison to the 245 Z214 on an 8.5".

Put it this way, if I had to pick one to run in qualifying it certainly would be the Z214. For an endurance race, I might actually prefer the RR since the Z214 is much more susceptible to overheating when pushed hard. I think it's obvious when you drive them back to back the Z214 is more capable, more confidence inspiring, and a just a faster tire (at least for the first 7-8 heat cycles, as mentioned already). And while it does have a closer "feel" to a Hoosier, I'm not sure I can say it is comparable to an R7.

[lcrain]

Sounds like the RRs grip better than the nittos, but does anyone have a longevity comparison? They are not as cheap as the nittos or the hankooks (255/40r17 and 245/40r17 respectively) in a 255/40r17. At the end of the day I feel like there is still time to be had with my nittos for me, but they are wearing quite quickly. If I can get more grip with similar life, seems like a no brainer.

Also may try the maxxis rc1 or toyo r888r. Friends have said the rc1 rewards a "tidier" line which generally does not describe my driving. Are the r888r's essentially the same compound as the nittos?

[irollt5r]

Sounds like the RRs grip better than the nittos, but does anyone have a longevity comparison? They are not as cheap as the nittos or the hankooks (255/40r17 and 245/40r17 respectively) in a 255/40r17. At the end of the day I feel like there is still time to be had with my nittos for me, but they are wearing quite quickly. If I can get more grip with similar life, seems like a no brainer.

Also may try the maxxis rc1 or toyo r888r. Friends have said the rc1 rewards a "tidier" line which generally does not describe my driving. Are the r888r's essentially the same compound as the nittos?

What tires have you run so far? The R888R's are the revised version of the R888, which had a similar compound to the NT01. No way to tell just yet how long the R888R's will last. Have you run the ZII Star Spec?

[RJHarker]

Discount tire direct is having their usual sale again through the eBay store. $100 off $450 this time instead of $400. Z214s in 245/40/17 can be had for $720 to your door. To get over $450 add heat cycling two tires at $30 and $12 for some shiny chrome valve stems to your cart for a total of $460-100=$360, rinse and repeat=$720. They have NT01s as well.
At checkout use code: ctires317 .

[lcrain]

What tires have you run so far? The R888R's are the revised version of the R888, which had a similar compound to the NT01. No way to tell just yet how long the R888R's will last. Have you run the ZII Star Spec?

On my car I have run hankook rs3 and nitto nt01. I have run the re71r on my brothers e36 and have done a weekend on toyo rr in a spec miata.

Have not run the z2. Not sure I want to take a step back in grip from the nittos. I would love to find something that either offers the same grip and lasts longer or offers similar life with more grip. That may not exist. Last two sets of nittos have been toast at 20 heat cycles.

[aeronaut]

^ This is why I'm trying the RR's. If they grip better than the Nittos (expected), and last as long or almost as long as the Nittos (not really expected), I'll keep with the RR. Otherwise, I wanted to experience a spec tire, but will go back to NT01s.

I also have some hope the new R888R may slightly improve in some aspect compared to the NT01.

But price, performance, longevity, that NT01 seems to be in a true sweet spot. Especially with regular sale prices.

[DocWyte]

The R888 have been universally lambasted as being crap by the Spec series drivers. They hate them.

[aeronaut]

Understood, hence I'm waiting to see if the R888R generates the same attitude.

[TXBDan]

How do Z214s compare widthwise to Hoosier R7s? I'll be running a 225 wide tire (to save classing points) which isn't so bad with a wide-ass R7. If Z214s are comparable in grip/life, width, and way cheaper maybe its worth thinking over...

[irollt5r]

On my car I have run hankook rs3 and nitto nt01. I have run the re71r on my brothers e36 and have done a weekend on toyo rr in a spec miata.

Have not run the z2. Not sure I want to take a step back in grip from the nittos. I would love to find something that either offers the same grip and lasts longer or offers similar life with more grip. That may not exist. Last two sets of nittos have been toast at 20 heat cycles.

You should really give the Z2 SS a try. They are faster than the RS3. They "should" outlast the NT01 and I believe the grip is comparable. The NT01 is an older design 100 treadwear tire. The Z2 SS is a much newer design 200 treadwear tire that is used in Endurance racing. From my experience with them, the grip levels and behavior of the Z2 SS are much closer to that of a 100TW tire than 200TW. Don't get me wrong, the NT01 is a good deal. Hell, for the price it might even be worth trying the new Hankook RS4. These new batch of extreme performance 200TW tires are really closing the gap to an R-compound tire.

Also, keep in mind the Z2 SS won't be as fast as the RE-71R for a fast lap, but they will last much longer and be more consistent.

[irollt5r]

How do Z214s compare widthwise to Hoosier R7s? I'll be running a 225 wide tire (to save classing points) which isn't so bad with a wide-ass R7. If Z214s are comparable in grip/life, width, and way cheaper maybe its worth thinking over...

Not even close. The R7 is MUCH wider than the Z214.

[aeronaut]

Update, 1st track weekend on Toyo RR complete.
Short version: Me Like.
Long version:
Everything has a big IT WAS COLD caveat. Like, 28 deg during the first session, and never above 40 deg either day cold.
Lap times: After 4-5 sets of Nitto NT01s, my best lap at summit main was 1:29.8, and consistent laps at 1:30.x (clean laps, no traffic). I never optimized tire pressures or temps. Basically, I'd get the temps close, watch the wear pattern, and have fun.
1st day out on the Toyo RR, best lap was 1:28.6, never a 100% clean lap, and never pushed balls out; always a bit of traffic or a pass to deal with (FUN!). Corner speeds up several MPH. (I haven't look at Solo data yet but my shift points earlied up.) Tire feels as predictable and easy to drive as the Nitto. Possibly a touch easier to over-drive the RR but it's obvious when it happens and corrects easily. It may have a touch more tendency to understeer (but I didn't change any suspension changes). All these nuances will likely be different on a warm day.

Overall, the only reason I won't stay with the Toyo RR is if it wears stupid fast.

No signs of tread split.