The time has come - M62TU chain guides

[ndz]

Background:
99 540iT sport Built 10/1998, 114,846 miles.

For about a week, I had a couple warnings as I continued to put on about 60 miles.
- Slightly rough idle
- A quiet but noticeable whirring sound from engine on acceleration

I hooked up INPA and had the car idling for a while and then the clacking started at the front passenger side of the engine bay. This video isn't my car but it sounds exactly like this after a few minutes of idling:



INPA showed me these curious results:
- 40 thermal sensor for oillevel defect
and


I thought about doing a compression test on cylinders 1 and 2 but didn't want to risk any damage turning over a bunch with the suspected chain guide failure. Also, I assume the chain tensioner is original. In hindsight, I would have changed it preventively.

I dropped the oil pan last night and found:


There were no metal shavings in the pan and the oil looked fine.

Questions:
1. Are rough idle, whirring, and rough INPA readings typical symptoms of chain guide failure (or a mis-timing caused by it)?

2. Anything else I should check before I start ripping and making my parts list?

Thanks in advance for any tips. Bentley doesn't document this job for the M62TU but thankfully there are some how-to's and videos.

[XAlt]

All symptoms of guide failure. Tensioner wouldn't have saved your car either.

Whirring=metal guides on metal chain.

[dannyzabolotny]

Once you see the guide pieces it's time to replace the chain guides. Avoid driving the car until they're replaced.

It's weird how yours failed so early, most start to go after 150k, at least on all of the cars I've owned. I guess the age is what's killing them at this point, not the mileage.

[JimLev]

Are you going to do the guides or take it to a shop?
Any metal shavings should be in the oil filter and housing.

[XAlt]

Once you see the guide pieces it's time to replace the chain guides. Avoid driving the car until they're replaced.

It's weird how yours failed so early, most start to go after 150k, at least on all of the cars I've owned. I guess the age is what's killing them at this point, not the mileage.

Age is what's killing them now.

Expect cheap M5s on the market very soon.

[ndz]

Are you going to do the guides or take it to a shop?
Any metal shavings should be in the oil filter and housing.

I'm going for it. Figure I can save $1500+ on the labor. Plus the only indy I trust is 40 miles away.

I just checked the filter and housing and found just one microscopic shaving so I may be lucky.

Age is what's killing them now.

Expect cheap M5s on the market very soon.

Another reason to give this a shot. There may be a lot more chain clacking cars showing up for sale cheap.

[dannyzabolotny]

I found tons of metal shavings in my X5 4.6's engine when I did the guides. The oil pan was full of them and so was the oil filter. Pretty sure those came from the guides and timing covers when the chain was grinding around. I have about 1000 miles on the engine after the chain guide rebuild so we'll see how it holds up over time.

[XAlt]

Forget about the shavings.

Guide metal isn't dangerous.

[dannyzabolotny]

Forget about the shavings.

Guide metal isn't dangerous.

Agreed. It's usually aluminum bits, since the guides and timing covers are all aluminum. I'd say it's too soft to do any serious damage. Out of the 8 chain guide jobs I've done, about half had a noticeable amount of metal bits and they're all running fine to this day.

[ndz]

Danny since you're the resident expert on this (8 jobs!), do you recommend a certain how-to or video guide for a first timer?

I read in another post that the G.A.S. timing tools are highly recommended.

[dannyzabolotny]

Danny since you're the resident expert on this (8 jobs!), do you recommend a certain how-to or video guide for a first timer?

I read in another post that the G.A.S. timing tools are highly recommended.

I've always used a combination of DIY's for the job. The Beisan Systems M62tu Vanos procedure will get you about halfway there, and then there's a lower timing cover removal guide that a member on here wrote (Topaz, I think). For the guides themselves, the GAS website has a good DIY that covers replacing the guides and timing the engine. Set aside lots of time and stay organized, those are the main things to remember. It's really quite a straightforward job if you have all of the proper tools.

[Saxrasta]

My 2010 328i died at 101k miles. First I was told it needed the valve cover replaced because crankcase ventilation is integrated into it. Then the car shut down on me. When trying to start the engine, the camshaft does not turn. I'm guessing the plastic chain guide failed because it's highly doubtful the chain actually broke. Regardless, I'm facing engine replacement with hopes of not experiencing such a catastrophe again.

[XAlt]

My 2010 328i died at 101k miles. First I was told it needed the valve cover replaced because crankcase ventilation is integrated into it. Then the car shut down on me. When trying to start the engine, the camshaft does not turn. I'm guessing the plastic chain guide failed because it's highly doubtful the chain actually broke. Regardless, I'm facing engine replacement with hopes of not experiencing such a catastrophe again.

Well, we can't really help with the N52.

[JimLev]

Danny since you're the resident expert on this (8 jobs!), do you recommend a certain how-to or video guide for a first timer?

I read in another post that the G.A.S. timing tools are highly recommended.

After you replace all the parts here is how to time the engine.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...a-540tu-engine

[ndz]

Thanks for the direction!!!

[ndz]

Forgot to add that my OBDII code reader showed the infamous P0011 error. Just another clear symptom of the obvious job at hand. Onward!

[f355spider]

Once you see the guide pieces it's time to replace the chain guides. Avoid driving the car until they're replaced.

It's weird how yours failed so early, most start to go after 150k, at least on all of the cars I've owned. I guess the age is what's killing them at this point, not the mileage.

I would hazard a guess it is a combination of miles and heat cycles. My tech believes going beyond the 15k oil change interval could shorten life as well, as oil is important to lubricating the guides, seen by the ports that distribute it on the guides.

I'm only guessing, but suspect upgrading to the later style timing chain tensioner early in the engine's life could help extend life. I replaced my tensioner with the upgraded part at 90k miles, then again at 170k miles. My guides let go at 260k.

- - - Updated - - -

I found tons of metal shavings in my X5 4.6's engine when I did the guides. The oil pan was full of them and so was the oil filter. Pretty sure those came from the guides and timing covers when the chain was grinding around. I have about 1000 miles on the engine after the chain guide rebuild so we'll see how it holds up over time.

How many miles on the X5 when the guides let go? My tech was working on timing chain guides on one with only 55k miles...

[XAlt]

Danny had like 210k highway miles.

Age is the new killer.

[euroshark]

It's not a bad job. Just be careful and take your time. I have tools for rent if you need them.

[dannyzabolotny]

I would hazard a guess it is a combination of miles and heat cycles. My tech believes going beyond the 15k oil change interval could shorten life as well, as oil is important to lubricating the guides, seen by the ports that distribute it on the guides.

I'm only guessing, but suspect upgrading to the later style timing chain tensioner early in the engine's life could help extend life. I replaced my tensioner with the upgraded part at 90k miles, then again at 170k miles. My guides let go at 260k.

How many miles on the X5 when the guides let go? My tech was working on timing chain guides on one with only 55k miles...

The 15k oil change interval is ridiculous. 6-8k miles is my recommendation. That's just one extra oil change a year if you drive 12-15k miles a year, so it's really quite reasonable. If you can't afford to change your oil every 6-8k miles then you have no business driving a BMW. The official oil change interval is a load of crap, it's just a way for BMW to save some money during their complementary maintenance period. So many of the BMW engine issues have been attributed to not changing the oil, from prematurely failing chain guides to the valve stem seals on the N62's.

My X5 4.6 had 213k miles when the guides let go. It was being sold by a dealer and while he was driving it around for personal use the guides failed so he cut his losses and sold it as a fixer-upper. Based on the mileage history, they were definitely highway miles added on by the most recent owner, since the previous owners drove a pretty normal amount.

What's interesting is that you can't even rely on the oil pan to check for guide pieces anymore. My X5 had almost no guide pieces in the oil pan, but there was zero plastic left on the guides. The guide pieces in that engine were stuck in the upper parts, on the timing covers and whatnot. Same thing with a 160k mile 740i that I'm working on— I found exactly zero guide pieces in the lower oil pan but I found lots of guide pieces further up in the engine.

[f355spider]

The 15k oil change interval is ridiculous. 6-8k miles is my recommendation. That's just one extra oil change a year if you drive 12-15k miles a year, so it's really quite reasonable. If you can't afford to change your oil every 6-8k miles then you have no business driving a BMW. The official oil change interval is a load of crap, it's just a way for BMW to save some money during their complementary maintenance period. So many of the BMW engine issues have been attributed to not changing the oil, from prematurely failing chain guides to the valve stem seals on the N62's.

My X5 4.6 had 213k miles when the guides let go. It was being sold by a dealer and while he was driving it around for personal use the guides failed so he cut his losses and sold it as a fixer-upper. Based on the mileage history, they were definitely highway miles added on by the most recent owner, since the previous owners drove a pretty normal amount.

What's interesting is that you can't even rely on the oil pan to check for guide pieces anymore. My X5 had almost no guide pieces in the oil pan, but there was zero plastic left on the guides. The guide pieces in that engine were stuck in the upper parts, on the timing covers and whatnot. Same thing with a 160k mile 740i that I'm working on— I found exactly zero guide pieces in the lower oil pan but I found lots of guide pieces further up in the engine.

Yes, everyone on these forums is well versed on more frequent oil changes. I have done them at 7500 mile intervals since new. I believe my tech's point is early failure can be attributed more often to owners not even following factory recommendations, which falls into neglect/abuse. The 15k oil change interval may not be best for longest life, it is not abusive...I've seen enough postings of used oil analysis (at 15k miles) on bobistheoilguy that shows LL01 oils can go the distance.

[ndz]

Has anyone done a 99? (My build is 10/1998)

RE: Vanos; The Beisan M62TU guide says:

Model year 99
Bank 1 vanos distribution piece (11-36-1-433-660) $57.72/each, bank 2 vanos distribution piece (11-36-1-433-664) $57.72/each

Note: Initial production distribution piece can experience scoring from camshaft seal rings. A design change was made to coat distribution piece with Teflon. This design change is found starting model year 00 cars (production 09/99). Model year 99 cars need to replace distribution pieces to incorporate new design distribution pieces.
Note: Even if old design non-coated distribution pieces are found not scored they should still be replaced with new coated design.

It looks like the price of each part is now around $140...ouch! I trust Beisan but haven't seen this discussed elsewhere. Can anyone confirm that I need to replace both distribution pieces?

I'm finally about to start this job.

So far I bought:
G.A.S. tools
Beisan VANOS kit
FCP M62TU guides kit

Still need:
Valley Pan parts (not sure what exactly I need yet)
OSV (not sure what exactly I need yet)
Oil Pan gasket
Oil level sensor (found a code in INPA so I'll change it while the pan is off.)

[dannyzabolotny]

Has anyone done a 99? (My build is 10/1998)

RE: Vanos; The Beisan M62TU guide says:

It looks like the price of each part is now around $140...ouch! I trust Beisan but haven't seen this discussed elsewhere. Can anyone confirm that I need to replace both distribution pieces?

I'm finally about to start this job.

So far I bought:
G.A.S. tools
Beisan VANOS kit
FCP M62TU guides kit

Still need:
Valley Pan parts (not sure what exactly I need yet)
OSV (not sure what exactly I need yet)
Oil Pan gasket
Oil level sensor (found a code in INPA so I'll change it while the pan is off.)

You might be able to score those distribution pieces for much less off of a junkyard car or on eBay. They really don't go bad with age and it's a smarter idea than spending $140 each.

For the valley pan you'll need a new valley pan, since the gasket is part of the valley pan as opposed to a separate rubber/paper gasket. In addition, you might as well replace some of the hoses at the back of the intake manifold since you'll be popping off the intake manifold. You'll want to replace the intake manifold gaskets and the little rubber donuts on the grommets that hold down the intake manifold. I also highly recommend replacing the o-rings on both sides of the coolant pipes that pass under the intake manifold. Some people replace the plastic cover on the valley pan, but I've had pretty good luck with getting the old one off without breaking it so I've always just reused it.

The oil separator in the E38/E39 M62tu is located behind the driver's side timing chain guide, I recommend replacing it because the old one will probably be brittle and the little plastic neck on it will snap the minute you touch it.

Good luck!

[JimLev]

If your distribution pieces aren't coated they probably have grooves worn in them.
Here's a pic of some I took off an early '99 540 and one off my '00 540.

DistPiece2.JPG

Mine
DistPiece1.JPG

[ndz]

Thanks guys. I have new VANOS distribution pieces on order.

Here's where I'm at, still in disassembly:


I found out O'Reilly #w155 deep socket (suggested on another site) does NOT fit over the Vanos solenoids. I'm still shopping for the right socket there...preferring to not use the Lowes water stem tool and also not dropping another $40 for the BMW tool.

I lined up top dead center and inserted the pin in from my G.A.S. kit. I'm ready to break the Jesus bolt free but reading horror stores of bent pins or worse I decided to order the crankshaft holder tool (part 112450) today. I also need to choose a bigger breaker bar and I don't have any pipes to extend off. What is the best tool for the job? There are lots of recommendations with extra long breakers, etc.

Should I pull the G.A.S. pin before I try and break the Jesus bolt loose or leave it in there? I should also lower the car off jackstands before torquing on it to be safe.

I also just realized the trestle should go in now that the tensioner is removed. I overlooked that in some other instructions.

No major issues so far besides some broken plastic bits. I'm getting a little overwhelmed with my dozen browsers and youtube videos with different instructions but I'm going to get re-organized.

While I'm waiting for the next parts orders, it's time to clean and and pull the manifold to get at the valley pan gasket. That doesn't seem to interfere with the current job at hand and can be done independently.