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Thread: Chikinhed's Mini Build

  1. #76
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    '97 M3
    Aluminum rear upper control arms are now polished and ready to go in. What a waist of time...





    Since the subframe is out, I figured I better do a good inspection of the subframe and the chassis where it bolts up to. The subframe looks great, the poly bushings look ok, then I see something strange just forward of the forward subframe bolts, in the middle under the back seat....







    This is what it looks like from inside the car...







    I had never heard of cracks happening there before but a search reveals that it happens. The sides of the crack are over top of each other overlapping.

    Even more for my to do list.
    Last edited by chikinhed; 03-28-2017 at 12:14 AM.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  2. #77
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    e30
    Those control arms look awesome!

    I think only manly men with lots of horsetorques can drive fast and hard enough to crack the floor pan. Maybe its a badge of honor?
    -Nick
    91 E30 M42 on VEMS

    Turbo Camshaft Thread

  3. #78
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    In the third picture you can see that the diff input flange has hit and dented the tunnel, just aft and inboard of the crack. There is more than 1/4" of clearance between the flange and the floor, it shouldn't hit. I have poly subframe bushings that I have shimmed to insure that it can't move. I kinda think it is the whole rear chassis flexing when it wheel hops. I will put a doubler over the crack but the crack location does not look like the cause of the hop.

    Any thoughts? Some people get no wheel hop, I get lots
    Last edited by chikinhed; 03-26-2017 at 01:54 PM.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  4. #79
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    96 332IS 6466 turbo
    Do you have 1/4" thick deck washers above subframe ? 1 or 2 ? To lower the subframe down some ?
    Did you shim the diff off the subframe when welding the 210mm bracket in ?
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  5. #80
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    1993 325is
    I still can't wrap my head around why you get sSOooo much bloody wheelhop. But I'm sure that crack is as a result of the hop. You bust EVERYTHING!! The arms looks bling-a-ling!! I painted mine with clear POR15 after bead blasting them. Makes it so much easier to keep clean. The POR15 did give the aluminum a light yellow hue though.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butters Stoch View Post
    Do you have 1/4" thick deck washers above subframe ? 1 or 2 ? To lower the subframe down some ? Did you shim the diff off the subframe when welding the 210mm bracket in ?
    I have shimmed the forward bushing to take up the clearance between the bushing and the body (Powerflex poorly designed them originally).

    There is about 1/16" between the bottom of the diff and the subframe.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  7. #82
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    96 332IS 6466 turbo
    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post

    I have shimmed the forward bushing to take up the clearance between the bushing and the body (Powerflex poorly designed them originally).

    There is about 1/16" between the bottom of the diff and the subframe.
    At the top of the subframe ? Above the bushings you should be running 1/4" thick deck washers. At all 4 corners. Then same below. So 8 all together. What do you mean by the forward bushing ?
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  8. #83
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    What do you mean by deck washers?

    I tossed the crap washers that came with the Powerflex bushings and made thick aluminum ones that don't distort.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  9. #84
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    08 E90M3; 99 E36M3 Turbo
    Space SF down 1/4 inch using McMaster Carr or similar 1/4 inch thick by 3 inch diameter washers. This adds clearance so diff input flange less likely to hit body. Also adds clearance from DS to gas tank than can be issue with DSS DS.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    Space SF down 1/4 inch using McMaster Carr or similar 1/4 inch thick by 3 inch diameter washers. This adds clearance so diff input flange less likely to hit body. Also adds clearance from DS to gas tank than can be issue with DSS DS.
    What is the part number of the washers you used?
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post

    What is the part number of the washers you used?
    You want 8 of these.
    1/4" thick 3" diameter with 1/2" center hole.
    4 above , 4 below.
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butters Stoch View Post
    You want 8 of these. 1/4" thick 3" diameter with 1/2" center hole. 4 above , 4 below.
    Ordered. I kinda like my aluminum washers though.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  13. #88
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    08 E90M3; 99 E36M3 Turbo
    You could make aluminum spacers. Same idea. AL is lighter.

  14. #89
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    This story gets even better. While prepping the area of the crack, I was removing the surrounding asphalt sound deadening and found a row of popped spot welds at the passenger side seat bottom where the box section for the right hand forward subframe stud attaches. Now the gas tank has to come out.



    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  15. #90
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    96 332IS 6466 turbo
    Stop looking for crap
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  16. #91
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    Toronto, ON
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    6465 328ti
    So interesting. Never knew e36s could have similar issues with the floor pan like the well documented z3s. Had to fix/reinforce my floor & diff mount this past fall as well


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #92
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    Twin turbo LS E36 M3
    Why the hell are you rear upper control arms cast aluminum and mine are stamped steel? WTH?

    And congrats on breaking the chassis. Thats pretty badass, seriously.
    328i Sedan Twin s366's, 6.0LS, TH400, MS3 Ultimate
    9.20 at 150 on 22psi

  18. #93
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    1993 325is
    E46. Brad's into the bling! And they're lighter than the E36 ones.

  19. #94
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    I'm now finding the title of this thread funny.

    I dropped the fuel tank out last night and scrubbed the floor pan to further inspect and found another small crack and a couple more popped spot welds. All the damage seems to be just on the right hand forward box section for the subframe attach point and that big ass crack.







    I've ordered a some UUC twin disc parts and Turner rear upper control arm bearings. Hopefully I get them soon to keep the ball rolling.
    Last edited by chikinhed; 03-28-2017 at 04:04 PM.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  20. #95
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    I'd need to wrap my head around it, but the torque down the driveline from the trans to the diff will make the subframe push/pull along the longitudinal axis. This will load the floor more on one side than the other. I know when I had to repair the cracks in the unibody at the subframe mounts on my car, it was worse on one side then the other - passenger side I think.

  21. #96
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    I'm going to weld up the pulled spot welds and do rosette welds I between each one. Ten spot welds over a two foot distance isn't enough IMHO.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    Ordered. I kinda like my aluminum washers though.
    What were the part #s for the 8 steel washers you ordered?

    98 Fern Green M3/2 - Precision 6870/AR Designs Twin Scroll/RK/E85
    2017 Toyota Tundra Crewmaxx - Family Whip
    2011 Pierce 75' Quint - Fire Apparatus West Islip FD

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY98M3 View Post
    What were the part #s for the 8 steel washers you ordered?

    91117A229 From McMaster Carr
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  24. #99
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    Are the washers needed for all poly bushings or just the Powerflex ones? I have AKG ones but have yet to install the 210mm diff and subframe combo.

    -WTB: OEM Class 2 LTW GT wing with risers- Mazak

  25. #100
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    The washers that were supplied with the Powerflex poly bushings are thin and weak and eventually start to cup. I replaced mine a long time ago. If you are installing a 210 diff you may want to space the front of the subframe down to give you a bit more clearance between the diff input flange/CV and the body.

    Tonight I went hunting again for cracks and found more. This time at the aft row of spot welds of the forward subframe attach box as well as at the corners of the rear seat pass through. The spacing of the spot welds on the right hand side, the side that popped, were farther a part (~1.75") than the spacing on the left hand side that didn't pop (~1.0"). I've welded up all the popped spot welds and cracks. I also drilled holes through the first skin, and did rosette welds to double all the spot welds on the forward box section. The rear box section had no signs of damage. None of the damage that I found could be seen from under the car, except for the five inch long crack above the exhaust, heat shield and driveshaft. All the damage was found inspecting each spot weld under the back seat and in the trunk once all the carpet and asphalt sound deadening was removed. She has to be tighter now.
    Last edited by chikinhed; 03-30-2017 at 07:03 AM.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

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