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Thread: Chikinhed's Mini Build

  1. #701
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    New England
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    F90 M5; E36 M3 Turbo
    I have done it with a ground down socket. I don’t know whether your big studs have the same 14mm head or not.

  2. #702
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Louisville, KY
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    turbo m3
    Is that something special? Have a link?

  3. #703
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    turbo m3
    Sorry, Philip I meant to quote the water nozzle reply before your post.

  4. #704
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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    '97 M3
    I tried to find the eBay link for the WI nozzle holder but can’t find it. I bought it a couple of years ago.

    I got the cams timed, double checked and vanos travel measured.
    Last edited by chikinhed; 04-15-2019 at 04:21 AM.

  5. #705
    Join Date
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    Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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    '97 M3
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OejZFFPQE

    I love the smell of a fresh engine. I finished it up tonight and took it for a little drive. The ICV decided to be stuck closed but everything else seems ok so far. Next up is torquing the head studs and retiming the cams again.
    Last edited by chikinhed; 04-16-2019 at 04:26 AM.

  6. #706
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    Cams out, headgasket retorqued, cams back in and timed. Thank you Perry for the cam timing block assortments.

    I pulled the intake manifold to get to the ICV and the steel coolant pipe that was leaking at the o-rings. The ICV was really stuck but I managed to free it up. I also decided to install a Riot Racing BBTB I had laying around. When I first drove it the idle was high and the throttle would occasionally get stuck in the closed position. I pulled it of, adjusted the idle stop screw so the idle would be lower and I gently cleaned up the edges of the throttle plate where it was getting stuck. It now seems to idle properly and not stick closed.

    During the test drive I paid more attention to the oil pressure gauge to see how my mods to the oil pump affected it. Cold oil pressure is now 80 psi, hot idle is about 20 psi.
    Last edited by chikinhed; 04-20-2019 at 06:52 AM.

  7. #707
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Austin, TX
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    6,091
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    S13, Turbo M3
    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    Were you using 2000's or L19's? What torque?

    It would be interesting if we could figure out a trend of why some crack and some don't. Me and Dmitry were just discussing this and I don't know how to make sense of it. He runs 12mm's, I run 11's. Lots of people used to run 1/2". A bunch of other people run 11's. Some crack and some don't and it doesn't seam to be directly related to power output or use.

    I know your Anthony cracked, now chickinhed's, and dmitry said that Avee had two blocks crack. I know Donnovan Marvin had one crack with 11's but it was during a catastrophic engine failure. Mike R ran 11's for awhile but I don't know if he stopped because of cracking.

    The blocks also crack in places other than the head bolt holes. I've seen them crack between cylinders and also down the side of the cylinder through the side of the block. The 87mm bores I think are much more prone to this. I also wonder if perhaps there is a problem with the casting of certain blocks.
    FWIW, I did the 11mm L19 ARP conversion in either 2011 or 2013, I can't remember, and initially torqued them to 120 ft-lbs, and used a torque plate of course. I had the engine apart later for an oil pump failure in 2013, and did the euro/s54 pan/pump conversion, and went back with 110 ft-lbs as we found 120 was ovaling out the bores in the "corners" where the studs were.

    Been at 110 ft-lb since, no issues with the L19 material, and as far as I'm aware, the block isn't cracked. *knocks violently on wood.

    My engine has seen 240F coolant on multiple occasions, and hit 242F just 2 weeks ago drifting. I obviously let it cool down from there and don't try to get it that high, but drifting produces a ridiculous amount of heat into the coolant system in about 30-45 seconds. I'm 84.5mm bore, around 650hp/tq all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    Cams out, headgasket retorqued, cams back in and timed. Thank you Perry for the cam timing block assortments.

    I pulled the intake manifold to get to the ICV and the steel coolant pipe that was leaking at the o-rings. The ICV was really stuck but I managed to free it up. I also decided to install a Riot Racing BBTB I had laying around. When I first drove it the idle was high and the throttle would occasionally get stuck in the closed position. I pulled it of, adjusted the idle stop screw so the idle would be lower and I gently cleaned up the edges of the throttle plate where it was getting stuck. It now seems to idle properly and not stick closed.

    During the test drive I paid more attention to the oil pressure gauge to see how my mods to the oil pump affected it. Cold oil pressure is now 80 psi, hot idle is about 20 psi.
    What did you do to mod the pump for more pressure? I may want to do this, I only have ~60 psi cold and 5-7 psi when really hot with mine.

    Mike
    IG: @mikevanshellenbeck

  8. #708
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    86 325es
    Good to see you Mike

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeE36 View Post
    What did you do to mod the pump for more pressure? I may want to do this, I only have ~60 psi cold and 5-7 psi when really hot with mine.

    Mike
    Im curious as well. I’m my car I plugged all the oil squirters (no need in a drag car) which really helped. Went from 10 to 30 psi at idle hot. Then I put different main bearings in with more clearance and it was right back down to 10. I am putting an M54b30 pump in mine which has a larger pump rotor.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  9. #709
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    '97 M3
    The early M50 pumps have the same width gears as the S54 at about 10.5 mm. The vanos M/S5x pumps are about 13.5 mm or 22% wider than the S54 gears.

    What is the width of the M54b30 oil pump gears?
    Last edited by chikinhed; 04-24-2019 at 02:32 AM.

  10. #710
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    The M54 rotor is 25mm wide and shaped a little differently. M54 top, m50 NV bottom.



    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  11. #711
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    You got me curious, I just measured the volume of both pumps by sealing them with vaseline and filling the rotor cavity with a syringe. The m50 pump was just over 2ml. Mabey 2.1ml. The m54 one was right at 3ml.

    Interesting math if you work it out. The pump spins 69.2% of engine speed and displaces 3ml 6 times per pump rotation. At 8000 rpms it’s displacing almost 100 liters a minute.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  12. #712
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    With the shape of the M54 teeth there is less displacement but they make up for it with the large depth. In order to use the M54 gears you’d need to adapt the M54 pump body; there isn’t enough meat for that width gear in the M52 or S54 pump bodies. That 12 mm more depth is only gaining 8% more over the M52 gears.
    Last edited by chikinhed; 04-24-2019 at 10:12 AM.

  13. #713
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    I am using the whole M54 pump, it bolts right up. I will need to modify a pickup tube due to the E34 oil pan. Does the M52 pump have the same rotor design and location where the pickup tube attaches as an m50 pump?


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  14. #714
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    The M50 NV and the M52 are the same except for the front cover is magnesium and the gears are not as wide on the M50 NV.

  15. #715
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    BBTB is still not dialed in. Idle is still a bit high and it doesn’t seem to close fast enough when shifting under boost. The rpm hangs.

  16. #716
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    So you just copied what VAC does correct? Put the M/S5x gear in the s54 pump.

    -WTB: OEM Class 2 LTW GT wing with risers- Mazak

  17. #717
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    I had read that that’s what they do. I figured that while the pump was out of the engine I might as well figure out how to do it. I’m pretty happy to see higher oil pressures.

  18. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    I had read that that’s what they do. I figured that while the pump was out of the engine I might as well figure out how to do it. I’m pretty happy to see higher oil pressures.
    I may do this at the end of this season. I keep telling myself I'm going to pull my engine to check bearings and things, but the oil analysis keeps coming back with flying colors. I certainly would like to see more pressure as well. Even with the S54 dual pickup setup, I can still cause a significant oil pressure drop on hard transitions with sticky tires. I'm always after better oiling, without going full dry sump.

    Mike
    IG: @mikevanshellenbeck

  19. #719
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    I was surprised to find all the bearings in good shape when I tore down the engine given the lower oil pressures from the stock pump. I have it stuck in my head the old saying that you need 10 psi per 1000 rpm and I was seeing 54 psi at 7200 rpm and ~11 psi at idle, neither seem right but no damage to the bottom end occurred. Not an issue now.

  20. #720
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    Is anyone successfully running a Riot Racing BBTB on their turbo m/s5x? I had to take it off; the drivability was no good.

  21. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    Is anyone successfully running a Riot Racing BBTB on their turbo m/s5x? I had to take it off; the drivability was no good.
    I've changed over from the M54 TB to an M62 TB....technically a BBTB in comparison, but being DBW I can scale how it moves in relation to the throttle pedal.

  22. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
    .technically a BBTB in comparison
    Not really... not in comparison to his TB anyway... his is a modified unit while yours is just a larger OEM TB. Big difference, plenty to go wrong if you modify a TB incorrectly (machining, larger blade, etc)

  23. #723
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    The Dinan bored stock TB is no problem, but some have had issues with the Riot Racing. I have some recollection of an improved version. Is yours new or an older used one?

    I like the idea of a 75mm TB. It has been done on the M50 manifold using a TB from a V8 BMW. Obviously not a quick project. I’d get the car on the road and save the TB project for later.

  24. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
    I've changed over from the M54 TB to an M62 TB....technically a BBTB in comparison, but being DBW I can scale how it moves in relation to the throttle pedal.

    Does it just bolt right up?

    -WTB: OEM Class 2 LTW GT wing with risers- Mazak

  25. #725
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    Based on the chart above, the stock TB is not adequate for the power levels we are playing with or at least it’s a major bottle neck.

    The BBTB that I have is used and looks like a 68 mm Riot Racing BBTB. I’m not 100% sure if it is so in no way am I reviewing their product. I’m just trying to get it to work on my engine to see if I want one.

    I’m having issues with erratic idle, the throttle sticking closed and the rpm shooting up to redline instead of dropping right away when shifting. None of which I enjoy and it really make me look like I’m just learning how to drive.

    I emailed Riot Racing about the issues I’m having and this is the fast response that I got back......

    “At 25psi you MUST have the heavy duty throttle arm.
    The symptoms you describe sound like faulty TB for sure. I don’t know who your friend is so I cant search my records to see if he purchased from me.

    Are you able to swap to the OBD1 style throttle body from an m50 or s50 engine? Those units are not as sensitive as the m52/s52 units.

    You can always return the BBTB if it gives you drivability issues. The only thing you would be out is shipping charges and time.

    At 25psi and 700+ horsepower the gains from the BBTB are negligible.”

    I can’t see increasing the area of the TB by about 15% having a negligible affect. I was thinking it would be worth about 20-25 hp at the power level I’m at. Should I keep pursuing this?

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