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Thread: Chikinhed's Mini Build

  1. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    Its better to have boosted an blown up than never to have boosted at all.
    Ehhh been there done that. I hope he works it out, and Iím sure he will. Hi
    ďIf liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.Ē
    ― George Orwell

  2. #627
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    If you leave it at 500 rwhp, the issues are fewer.

  3. #628
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    500 whp is not acceptable at this point unfortunately. I got to drive a GT3 Porsche a couple of weeks ago and the lack of acceleration, comparatively, was a let down. Thatís a car Iíve looked up to for years now. The throttle pedal should be able to invoke fear.

  4. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    500 whp is not acceptable at this point unfortunately. I got to drive a GT3 Porsche a couple of weeks ago and the lack of acceleration, comparatively, was a let down. Thatís a car Iíve looked up to for years now. The throttle pedal should be able to invoke fear.
    Correct, and cracked blocks.
    ďIf liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.Ē
    ― George Orwell

  5. #630
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    Sorry for not reading through the entire thread but why the switch to 11mm studs in the first place? I see so many people doing bigger studs for 6-800whp and I just don't understand why? 10mm studs and a cut ring has done me and everyone else I know just fine at 700+. I seem to see bigger studs causing more problems than they fix.

  6. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by rajicase View Post
    Sorry for not reading through the entire thread but why the switch to 11mm studs in the first place? I see so many people doing bigger studs for 6-800whp and I just don't understand why? 10mm studs and a cut ring has done me and everyone else I know just fine at 700+. I seem to see bigger studs causing more problems than they fix.
    The question is specific to using an aluminum block.

    The most prevalent use of aluminum blocks with FI is with the M54 engine.

    M54 engines have some bad history with over-heating; they anneal if you go over 230 degrees water temp, and the head bolts pull out. As a result, numerous companies have come up with re-thread kits for the M54 block. A few racers decided to go for 11mm had studs while they were at it. To be clear, the 11mm stud and re-threading of the block was to address an already weakened block, or the possibility of overheating and weakening.

    FI people grabbed onto the idea of stronger thread engagement, and stronger head studs, without evidence of there being an issue with upgraded 10mm head studs. (With or without timecerts)

  7. #632
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    In this case Brad said he is running 11mm studs in his iron block M52. He did this in an attempt to get more clamping force.
    -Nick
    91 E30 M42 on VEMS

    Turbo Camshaft Thread

  8. #633
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    I think this build predates the cutring gaskets.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  9. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    500 whp is not acceptable at this point unfortunately. I got to drive a GT3 Porsche a couple of weeks ago and the lack of acceleration, comparatively, was a let down. That’s a car I’ve looked up to for years now. The throttle pedal should be able to invoke fear.
    They make a model for that. GT2 RS

    E36 ∑ DYNO ∑ TUNING ∑ WIRING ∑ PARTS

  10. #635
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    Yes my o-ringed iron block did predate the cut ring. My 11 mm stud choose was a result of many BF FI peeps, including myself, wanting more clamp force in an attempt to reduce head gasket failures on the iron block. The 11 mm studs did a wonderful job but the torque that they were torqued to was probably too high for the threads in the block. I might add that the engine didnít come apart because of the cracks in the block or because of a failed head gasket; it was the cracks in the head that were weeping coolant. Just enough to smoke more on start up. I was still boosting hard until I pulled the head.

    The 10 mm ARP stud torque procedure has reduce torque to 75 lbft from the 85 lbft and the rotational torque method which was probably up around 100+ lbft if you were to measure it. My guess is that they were having the 10 mm studs stretch beyond the max limits at the higher torque rendering them not reusable. I plan to reuse the 11 mm studs again but at a reduced torque than last time, closer to 85 lbft than the 100 lbft I did last time.

    I am considered going to the cut ring gasket instead of o-rings but I would prefer that the head gasket pop over cracking the head.

  11. #636
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    I finally pulled the engine last night. Life and work make progress on the car painfully slow. Now I have to figure out what parts I need. The bearings all looked good so the crank will just need a polish. I may or may not use the pistons again as Iíll need HD wrist pins and new rings.....

  12. #637
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    Iíve inspected and measured the important stuff. Pistons, rods and crank are all still good. Iím going to install beefier wrist pins for insurance. New rings, bearings, gaskets and other random bits are ordered, now all I need is a new block.

    The new head is getting new guides, valve job and porting and the stainless/inconel valves, springs and Ti retainers out of the old cracked head.

  13. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    Yes my o-ringed iron block did predate the cut ring. My 11 mm stud choose was a result of many BF FI peeps, including myself, wanting more clamp force in an attempt to reduce head gasket failures on the iron block. The 11 mm studs did a wonderful job but the torque that they were torqued to was probably too high for the threads in the block. I might add that the engine didnít come apart because of the cracks in the block or because of a failed head gasket; it was the cracks in the head that were weeping coolant. Just enough to smoke more on start up. I was still boosting hard until I pulled the head.

    The 10 mm ARP stud torque procedure has reduce torque to 75 lbft from the 85 lbft and the rotational torque method which was probably up around 100+ lbft if you were to measure it. My guess is that they were having the 10 mm studs stretch beyond the max limits at the higher torque rendering them not reusable. I plan to reuse the 11 mm studs again but at a reduced torque than last time, closer to 85 lbft than the 100 lbft I did last time.

    I am considered going to the cut ring gasket instead of o-rings but I would prefer that the head gasket pop over cracking the head.
    That sounds like a solid lifespan for good ole inline 6.
    This is my signature....

  14. #639
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    Iíve inspected and measured the important stuff. Pistons, rods and crank are all still good. Iím going to install beefier wrist pins for insurance. New rings, bearings, gaskets and other random bits are ordered, now all I need is a new block.

    The new head is getting new guides, valve job and porting and the stainless/inconel valves, springs and Ti retainers out of the old cracked head.
    Last edited by chikinhed; 01-08-2019 at 01:51 AM.

  15. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    500 whp is not acceptable at this point unfortunately. I got to drive a GT3 Porsche a couple of weeks ago and the lack of acceleration, comparatively, was a let down. That’s a car I’ve looked up to for years now. The throttle pedal should be able to invoke fear.

    What power level were you at with the 9180?

    -WTB: OEM Class 2 LTW GT wing with risers- Mazak

  16. #641
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    Fwiw my new block is 1/2Ē 8740 chromoly arpís.

    (Stainless oring because I now have a fancy head I donít want to loose.)

    1/2Ē studs allow you to completely cut a full thread and there were a few other tricks to help with the block strength.

    1/2Ē arp (not 2k) is ~60% more preload versus the standard 10mm arp2k.

    Food for thought.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  17. #642
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    does drilling out material not lead to weakening of the block around the stud holes causing cracking? or at least making it more of
    a issue than having 10mm studs?

  18. #643
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    Maybe bore comes into play? Is Vollosso using an 84.5mm bore or an 86.6 or 87mm bore?

  19. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by avee View Post
    does drilling out material not lead to weakening of the block around the stud holes causing cracking? or at least making it more of
    a issue than having 10mm studs?
    Seams to be pretty hit or miss. I've seen cracked blocks with 11mm, 12mm, and 1/2". Others seam to not ever have issues. I have 11mm studs in mine and have never cracked a block but I also have the threads sunk about 1/4" deeper into the block. The nice thing about 11mm is you just chase out the existing threads and they fit through the head gasket, dowels, and head without modification.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    Maybe bore comes into play? Is Vollosso using an 84.5mm bore or an 86.6 or 87mm bore?
    The cracking is definitely more prevelant in 86+mm bores


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  20. #645
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    Yeah, this motor is 84.5 although you have enough clearance with any bore. Itís all how you prep, bore and cut the threads.

    We changed the counterbore and thread depth.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 Tiag/Dove M3 - sold
    1998 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 TiAg/Black - Current

    PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  21. #646
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    I found the torque PDF that I used for torquing my 11 mm L19 studs and it says 105 lbft. That is probably too high for the strength of the block based on the results that we are getting. I will use the 11 mm studs again but am going to keep the torque down to 85 lbft this time. ARP has revised the ARP2000 10 mm stud torque, again, down to 75 lbft this time.

    The engine is at the machine shop now getting cleaned, decked, bored, SS o-ringed, re-threaded for 11 mm head studs, oil pump chain tensioner dowels installed and S54 oil pump machined for high volume oil pump gears. I'm also putting in upgraded 0.200" wall thickness wrist pins 'just in case'. The head should be done soon I would suspect but my head guy knows that the block won't be done for a bit. The machine shop said five days but I know better than to believe them. If I get it back in the next three weeks I'll be amazed.

    I had a little look in the ports of my Steed 2.0 and there is some cleaning up at the WG port that could happen to increase flow. It's too bad its not built for a 60 mm WG and its also too bad that it only dumps four of the six runners. I can spend some time in there and make it a little bit better.

    I've booked the M3 to go into the body shop mid Feb for some mods and paint. The goal is to come out shiney, meatier and lighter.
    Last edited by chikinhed; 01-17-2019 at 03:34 AM.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  22. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    I've booked the M3 to go into the body shop mid Feb for some mods and paint. The goal is to come out shiney, meatier and lighter.

    Looking forward to seeing this!


    -sold...replaced by turbo e36

  23. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    I've booked the M3 to go into the body shop mid Feb for some mods and paint. The goal is to come out shiney, meatier and lighter.
    Let me guess, your going to put this body kit on it aren't you?



    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  24. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    Let me guess, your going to put this body kit on it arenít you?
    ....and those wheels....I love how those wheels donít fill out the arches...... and how you can still see the stock arch under the rears.....ya, thatís the one.

    I had to buy a minimum of 100 of those kits to get the deal though, I figured yíall would want one as well.

    Iím going to supply the Ďbody guyí with an e46 fender and he will see if itís going to work for what I want. Heís thinking that he may end up making the all the flares from scratch out of steel. Iíd like to fit a 295 all around but have it look stock.

  25. #650
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    Interested to see how the E36 fenders come out...I need to do this on mine in the rear but I got a quote of $5K to do it. I aint paying that much.

    98 Fern Green M3/2 - Precision 6870/AR Designs Twin Scroll/RK/E85
    2017 Toyota Tundra Crewmaxx - Family Whip
    2011 Pierce 75' Quint - Fire Apparatus West Islip FD

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