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Thread: Chikinhed's Mini Build

  1. #451
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Northern California
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    95 M3, 15 Golf TDI wagon
    Could you put one of these in place of the Turbosmart IWG actuator?

    http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/p...mvinewsrelease

    -WTB: OEM Class 2 LTW GT wing with risers- Mazak

  2. #452
    Join Date
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    96 332IS 6466 turbo
    Quote Originally Posted by Matutino View Post
    My car feels the fastest it has ever been, I'm going to the 1/4 mile end of the month to see what it does but still don't think the effort and fund spent justifies this manifold.
    It may not for you because your running a quicker spooling 62mm turbo. But, coming from a 6466 with a known great tubular manifold 666, I was seeing 22-24 psi by 4500 now I can see 25 psi by 3700 and 21# by 3400. For those running bigger turbos, this manifold is the best spent money.
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  3. #453
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    I disconnected the bottom port on the IWG. With EBC off I get 13 psi, Tial EWG spring pressure. With the EBC on and set to a target boost of 22+ psi the most I get is 17 psi which is the current IWG spring pressure.

    Next trouble shooting option is to disconnect bottom and top ports on the IWG and see if just the Tial EWG can control the boost.

    Edit: With both IWG ports disconnected the Tial MVR EWG can't control the boost under at least 26 psi, the IWG is required. With EBC off it over boosts, with EBC on it over boosts faster.

    I could probably band aid it by installing a 25 psi spring in the IWG and hope that the Tial will give me something lower than that but I don't think it will.

    I think the best option at this point is to try an eBoost2 with a 4-port boost solenoid because, according to Seb at NLR Systems, the maker of the AMS-500, I can't use a 4-port solenoid with the AMS-500 and it won't hold the boost stable with a leaking Turbo(not so)smart IWG.

    Patiently waiting for more parts......again
    Last edited by chikinhed; 07-22-2017 at 03:52 AM.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  4. #454
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    One more idea for the night. I hooked both ports of the IWG back up and increased the preload on the IWG valve by another 2 mm and I turned the high boost setting up to 25 which should be WG spring pressure plus 25 psi. It spiked up to 24.7 psi for a split second and settled back at 21 psi until 6000 rpm then it fell to 18 psi and slowly climbed back to 19 psi by 6800 rpm. I might try a couple more mm of preload tomorrow. I don't like the initial boost spike. It could cause the ECU to pull timing.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  5. #455
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    Here is a log from last night.

    Screen Shot 2017-07-22 at 11.57.58 AM.png
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  6. #456
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    Makes whoosh noises
    Is that bottom trace exhaust back pressure? What fuel?

    1000+RWHP, Lab22 Built Turbo S54 - BMW Half Mile Record Holder

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
    Is that bottom trace exhaust back pressure? What fuel?
    The bottom graph is fuel pressure. This is with Chevrom 94 (ethanol free) and 12% e85 added along with ample 50/50 water/meth.
    Last edited by chikinhed; 07-22-2017 at 09:21 PM.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  8. #458
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    98 m3
    Interesting afr's. Are those accurate?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 M3 Tiag/Dove - sold
    1998 M3 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 Built motor TiAg/Black - Sold
    2008 E61 19T Turbo-Wagon - current
    2011 E82 135i - S85 Swap - current
    1998 M3 Cosmos S54 swapped Sedan - current

    1998 Turbo: PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  9. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    Interesting afr's. Are those accurate? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I have three different AFR's from three different gauges.

    Zeitronix reads the richest at 9.6-10.5 at WOT (with old and newish sensors)
    AEM failsafe reads 11.5-12.0 at WOT (with old and brand new sensor)
    Innovate reads 12.5-12.9 at WOT (with same old and newish sensor as was used with the Zeitronix and both were fresh air calibrated)

    Which one would you believe?

    Could the boost be dropping off at 5800 rpm due to vanos or is just the exhaust back pressure pushing the WG open?
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    I have three different AFR's from three different gauges.

    Zeitronix reads the richest at 9.6-10.5 at WOT (with old and newish sensors)
    AEM failsafe reads 11.5-12.0 at WOT (with old and brand new sensor)
    Innovate reads 12.5-12.9 at WOT (with same old and newish sensor as was used with the Zeitronix and both were fresh air calibrated)

    Which one would you believe?

    Could the boost be dropping off at 5800 rpm due to vanos or is just the exhaust back pressure pushing the WG open?
    Vanos should be well off before then.

    I don't know which gauge i would trust. Hah. Tough decision.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 M3 Tiag/Dove - sold
    1998 M3 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 Built motor TiAg/Black - Sold
    2008 E61 19T Turbo-Wagon - current
    2011 E82 135i - S85 Swap - current
    1998 M3 Cosmos S54 swapped Sedan - current

    1998 Turbo: PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  11. #461
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    E36,E38, and E46
    can you log pressure signal to wastegates at the wastegates....possibly in the same log to correlate the numbers?

  12. #462
    Join Date
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    96 332IS 6466 turbo
    I'd be scared to run that car at 20+ #.

    Put the zetronix sensor first in the stream and change the values to lambda. See what happens.

    Do all the sensors read 14.7ish at idle ? Only in boost do these read differently ?
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  13. #463
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    Have you tried only running the external waste gate and leaving the IWG open?
    Old set up: 520RWHP & 500RWTQ @ 20PSI 1/4 mile as of 7/26/15 12.5 @ 125MPH - 19PSI
    New set up: Steedspeed Twinscroll, Wiseco Pistons 8.8:1 CR, K1 Rods, Blueprinted and Balanced, ARP Main Studs, o-ring block, GTR 12mm head studs, GT35R with 86mm HTA billet compressor wheel (GT3586RHTA) TwinScrol 1.06 exhaust housing, Nick G custom tuning, 6 Speed Transmission, UUC Twin Disc Clutch, UUC EVO III, UUC DSSR 109mm, EVO 6 Speed Driveshaft, HFS-6 W/M injection, Zeitronix data logger, 3" SS full exhaust, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Race coilovers.

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matutino View Post
    Have you tried only running the external waste gate and leaving the IWG open?
    With just the external, boost was rising rapidly through 26 psi at which point I lifted. The IWG is required more than the EWG is. At some point I may install a block off plate for the EWG if I can gain control of the IWG. It would make for a very simple system.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  15. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post

    With just the external, boost was rising rapidly through 26 psi at which point I lifted. The IWG is required more than the EWG is. At some point I may install a block off plate for the EWG if I can gain control of the IWG. It would make for a very simple system.
    I can control mine with EWG only. Not an orthodox way of doing it, but I'm doing it.
    I think your boost controller is acting up. If it allows it to hit 24# it should be able to control it.
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  16. #466
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    The IWG is losing too much pressure from the top side (EWG term) of the IWG. There is no seal where the shaft comes out of the canister which is leaking pressure to control the WGs.

    I need to do what Bry suggested to confirm what is going on. I've discussed this with NLR Systems and they said a leak would cause boost control issues. I've just emailed Turbosmart to ask if a seal can be installed or if they have another solution for me. We will see what their support is like.

    I was doing pulls the other night and when it hits 25-26 psi in 4th it squats and pulls pretty hard. This 17-20 psi stuff is now boring, I want the 25 psi for DDing.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  17. #467
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    Turbosmart ewg...

    if you look at the outside of the wg between the cast ss elbow and the aluminum housing for the diaphragm you will see 3 spacers like triangle. If you pressurize the housing air leaks from those spacers the seal on the inside of the housing is blown. 3 screws on the inside each with a seal underneath them they go through the spacers you can see from the outside. They attach the top half to the bottom half (housing to stainless elbow).

    second place they leak is the valve that is being driven by the diaphragm. Its a brass bushiing for a valve lke in a head. Ive seen them have way too much clearance and have blow by. An easy way to solve the valve leakage temporarily is pick p silicone lube. Work the lube up and down the valve stem and it will temporarilyhold pressure.
    Or retrn it if its leaky.

  18. #468
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    Tonight I moved the fuel pressure transducer over to the line from the boost solenoid to the top of the WG and this is what is going on....

    Screen Shot 2017-07-24 at 12.28.31 AM.png

    It looks like the WGs might be doing what they are being told to do. I'm not sure if it is because of the added volume in the boost control lines but boost was going a bit higher, up to 26 psi, vs a couple of days ago at 24 psi.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  19. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    Tonight I moved the fuel pressure transducer over to the line from the boost solenoid to the top of the WG and this is what is going on....

    Screen Shot 2017-07-24 at 12.28.31 AM.png

    It looks like the WGs might be doing what they are being told to do. I'm not sure if it is because of the added volume in the boost control lines but boost was going a bit higher, up to 26 psi, vs a couple of days ago at 24 psi.
    It almost looks like Integral wind up......or in this case, wind down....

  20. #470
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    I forgot to mention that the bottom plot is now reading the boost control pressure to the top of the EWG.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  21. #471
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    You don't have any way to log the duty cycle at the solenoid do you? Looking at the pressure trace going to the EWG it looks to me like you have a controller problem.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  22. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    You don't have any way to log the duty cycle at the solenoid do you? Looking at the pressure trace going to the EWG it looks to me like you have a controller problem.
    I said that a month ago. But Brad is trying to do fancy diagnosis instead of the more fun way, throwing parts at it.
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  23. #473
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    I'll borrow a othe AMS-500 from Avee. It's almost acting like the line to the EBC is pinched.
    Last edited by chikinhed; 07-24-2017 at 11:57 AM.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  24. #474
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    At least you have a place to look to solve your issue. Better than just guessing
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  25. #475
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    Duty cycle would help. It should be something like 12 volts that you may be able to scale tomthe proper voltage range for an analog input. The pressure signal to the ewg looks like its either muddy from distance, volume, or hose expansion. It could be a leak as well. Double or triple the p or proportional and double or triple the i or time variable. Have it make bigger corrections half as often. look at the second pull. The boost pressure has a crisp transition from the pressure increase to the constant pressure. If you have a derivative set it to 0. Doubling p and i should eventually lead to instability but if its a controller problem you could see the signal pressure get crisper.
    duty cycle is correlated in a round about way to the air pressure being added to the springs. the math isnt right but here is an example. If the system is fairly rigid and sealed and you have 10 psi at the valve and 50 percent duty you should get 5 psi to the wg. So by extrapolation if you have a 5 psi leak and you want 5 psi of force to help the spring 100 percent duty is you number.
    p is how much to correct by every i seconds. If the leak is in range of the controller you can duct tape it. You can also tune out friction and flutter blah blah blah.

    Pressure of both valves plotted together does the same but can show you how compressibility, friction.....affects each other and then there are ways to duct tape or minimize those. Duty will show you ....

    thinking about this you may get better response if you tune boost the boost controller with the pressure signal at the wg instead of the manifold. But pressure in the manifold will probably be unstable with the setting you have now. You would need to minimize p and set the time to maybe 500ms or so.

    anyways need more data

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