Chikinhed's Mini Build

[chikinhed]

I tried disconnection the bottom hose from the EWG again and this time it looked like I wasn't getting as big of a boost spike and much less boost taper. The spring I swapped in the IWG has helped. With the boost controller off and the bottom hose off of the EWG I am seeing about 17-18 psi. On the low boost setting I am seeing about 23 psi with it leveling out at about 22 psi.On the high boost setting which I set to be a couple of psi more I had about the same boost. I tried to datalog but I used an SD card that wasn't formated properly. I'll try again tomorrow.

[chikinhed]

More boost control troubleshooting. With the Tial MVR with 14 psi spring installed and boost controller off I'm seeing 15 psi. With AMS-500 boost controller set to 9 or 13, which should give 23-27 psi, I'm seeing 20 psi.

The Turbosmart EWG wastegate could not control the boost on the Steed as Butters and Phil have already said. The Tial is working fine.

The Turbosmart IWG has no seal or o-ring at the actuator shaft so it leaks pressure from the EBC that should be holding the wastegates closed. If there is a leak, the AMS can't keep the gates closed to the selected boost and also becomes unstable.

Basically Turbosmart wastegates are junk, at least on high backpressure setups like the Steed/EFR combo. The good reviews I've read on them must be sponsored by Turbosmart.

Next on the troubleshooting list will be to disconnect the line from the EBC to the IWG and see if I can get more boost and control it to the selected psi. If so, then I will install 25 psi springs in the IWG and see how the transient response is. Hopefully I can get this sorted. As it is now I have spent big money and a huge amount of time to have my car about the same as it was with the open Steed and GTX3582R.

[Butters Stoch]

With just the EWG Tial, you should have no problem hitting 25psi. I have had no issues, but staying under that can be challenging.

[dburt86]

Put the bottom port of the IWG to a pressure source and use just the tial for boost control.

[JimsR]

More boost control troubleshooting. With the Tial MVR with 14 psi spring installed and boost controller off I'm seeing 15 psi. With AMS-500 boost controller set to 9 or 13, which should give 23-27 psi, I'm seeing 20 psi.

The Turbosmart EWG wastegate could not control the boost on the Steed as Butters and Phil have already said. The Tial is working fine.

The Turbosmart IWG has no seal or o-ring at the actuator shaft so it leaks pressure from the EBC that should be holding the wastegates closed. If there is a leak, the AMS can't keep the gates closed to the selected boost and also becomes unstable.

Basically Turbosmart wastegates are junk, at least on high backpressure setups like the Steed/EFR combo. The good reviews I've read on them must be sponsored by Turbosmart.

Next on the troubleshooting list will be to disconnect the line from the EBC to the IWG and see if I can get more boost and control it to the selected psi. If so, then I will install 25 psi springs in the IWG and see how the transient response is. Hopefully I can get this sorted. As it is now I have spent big money and a huge amount of time to have my car about the same as it was with the open Steed and GTX3582R.

Interesting, and here I got rid of my Tial in favor the Turbosmart wastegate since that was originally recommended. I have yet to try myself with the Steed and may have different results with my turbo (pte6262). I really need to finish to provide some input.

[chikinhed]

Put the bottom port of the IWG to a pressure source and use just the tial for boost control.

Yes, that's the plan but the IWG ports are backwards from a EWG.

[pbonsalb]

Put the bottom port of the IWG to a pressure source and use just the tial for boost control.

Wouldn't that blow up the TS dual port actuator diaphragm? I think I did that once about 15 years ago on another car . . . .

[Commanderwiggin]

I run a single Turbosmart Hypergate with a 4port and have no issue controlling 12psi up to 32psi with a 7675 Gen2 0.96A/R - 380kPa high boost backpressure. 6870 Gen2 0.81 A/R was even higher backpressure at 550kPa. It will probably control lower too with a lighter spring. Have you considered placing the wastegate on the turbine housing rather than the steed? What's your backpressure on low boost? Edit: NVM I see it's an EFR...good luck controlling that.

[Butters Stoch]

I run a single Turbosmart Hypergate with a 4port and have no issue controlling 12psi up to 32psi with a 7675 Gen2 0.96A/R - 380kPa high boost backpressure. 6870 Gen2 0.81 A/R was even higher backpressure at 550kPa. It will probably control lower too with a lighter spring. Have you considered placing the wastegate on the turbine housing rather than the steed? What's your backpressure on low boost? Edit: NVM I see it's an EFR...good luck controlling that.

The problem is boost control on the steed speed #2.

[chikinhed]

The Steed twin scroll EWG port/flange requires the exhaust to do a 90° turn out of the runners and there is a 1/4" thick divider in the middle of the WG port taking up area. This is one of the reasons why people have had trouble controlling boost. When you install a Turbosmart Hypergate EWG on the Steed that makes it even worse because the Hypergate does not open near as much as the Tial MVR can. There is probably a turbo/exhaust housing combo that would work fine with the Steed/Hypergate but it is not an EFR 9180 at low boost. I'm not knocking the design, I'm very persistent to find a solution for this set up that works. I need to have a system that can drop to below 15 psi on WG spring pressure if the WI failsafe trips. A range of 14 psi to 25 psi is hopefully obtainable.

[Commanderwiggin]

Definitely a bit of a predicament. In for the solution.

[pbonsalb]

I'd like to see soneone try a JGS 50mm EWG. Supposedly fits the standard 44mm flange. Not compact so you woukd have to clearance the SAP tray, but not compact probably means more valve lift.

[milKt]

The problem is boost control on the steed speed #2.

[dburt86]

Wouldn't that blow up the TS dual port actuator diaphragm? I think I did that once about 15 years ago on another car . . . .

If its anything like the tials, it would just keep the gate shut. I wouldnt imagine it would harm them.

[wazzu70]

Sorry to hear you are having so many issues! Seems the EFR turbones may be too good Are you running the 9810 at the same pressure you were with the GT35? Seems the 9810 should have a lot more airflow.

An option potentially is putting two external gates on the manifold (one for each bank). Unfortunately space is really tight or you could just go with one 60mm gate.

The problem of not being able to make enough boost is weird though. Usually its the other way around!

[pbonsalb]

Everyone thought the manifold was perfect and needed nothing -- it had been tested with GTX3582R and EFR8374 and EFR9180. But it may be that it needs dual WG or one larger WG. And then there was the suggestion that the Turbosmart WG were great and the manifold was designed for the compact Turbosmart 45. I would not be surprised if there are changes in a future run of the manifold to improve the WG flow.

If I could do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I would have kept my Boostlogic and put an EFR8374 or EFR9180 on it. Most likely would have been fine with just an external Tial 44.

[bimmerbumm193]

This totally sucks to spend this much time on this. Just to clarify you ordered a 14 PSI IWG and it doesnt seem be set at 14 PSI, hmm I might have the same issue? I have been racing my steed/8374 EFR on wastegate springs and according to the logs it spikes up to 10-11 PSI and then tapers down to 7 PSI (never tried in 5th gear though). I initially thought the EWG I purchase new-in-the-box from a forum member had the spring switched to a 7 PSI spring which was why I was only getting 7 psi. So yesterday I opened up the EWG and it does indeed have the 14 psi spring combo installed, meaning my IWG has the wrong or faulty springs in it. With an open wastegate dump I assumed the car would be much louder at WOT, but I dont think the EWG is opening up at all. I wonder if my 3" exhaust is keeping things in check somewhat. I want to try to turn the boost up a bit so I am going to try a manual boost controller Teed to both wastegates and see what happens. I really really really dont have any desire to mess with this...I may have just built the most expensive E36 7 psi turbo build

[Matutino]

I have been able to regulate boost from 10 to 23psi so far with no issues

[chikinhed]

Are you running the 9810 at the same pressure you were with the GT35? The problem of not being able to make enough boost is weird though. Usually its the other way around!

I was running the GTX3582R at 24-25 psi, I've been trying to do the same with the EFR 9180 but the average boost I've seen has been a spike to 23 psi settling at 20 psi and tapering off to 17 psi. If I disconnect the lines to the WG's it will make all the boosts, very quickly, so it's not a problem with the turbo, piping or exhaust.

The TS IWG leaks at the actuating shaft, combine that with the back pressure in the manifold and the waste gate is getting blown open before target boost is made.

[e30kid89]

I have been able to regulate boost from 10 to 23psi so far with no issues

Because non-efr


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[wazzu70]

I was running the GTX3582R at 24-25 psi, I've been trying to do the same with the EFR 9180 but the average boost I've seen has been a spike to 23 psi settling at 20 psi and tapering off to 17 psi. If I disconnect the lines to the WG's it will make all the boosts, very quickly, so it's not a problem with the turbo, piping or exhaust.

The TS IWG leaks at the actuating shaft, combine that with the back pressure in the manifold and the waste gate is getting blown open before target boost is made.

Gotcha. You could up the WG springs to solve the issue, but then would not be able to run low enough pressure in rain, ect.

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone thought the manifold was perfect and needed nothing -- it had been tested with GTX3582R and EFR8374 and EFR9180. But it may be that it needs dual WG or one larger WG. And then there was the suggestion that the Turbosmart WG were great and the manifold was designed for the compact Turbosmart 45. I would not be surprised if there are changes in a future run of the manifold to improve the WG flow.

If I could do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I would have kept my Boostlogic and put an EFR8374 or EFR9180 on it. Most likely would have been fine with just an external Tial 44.

Given the space available I dont think there is much room for improvement in WG flow. Its the same issue of the wastegate being put on at a 90deg to the flow path.

[Matutino]

Everyone thought the manifold was perfect and needed nothing -- it had been tested with GTX3582R and EFR8374 and EFR9180. But it may be that it needs dual WG or one larger WG. And then there was the suggestion that the Turbosmart WG were great and the manifold was designed for the compact Turbosmart 45. I would not be surprised if there are changes in a future run of the manifold to improve the WG flow.

If I could do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I would have kept my Boostlogic and put an EFR8374 or EFR9180 on it. Most likely would have been fine with just an external Tial 44.

I have to agree, I'm not sure I'm satisfied with the performance VS spent against my old set up.
I'm thinking about switching to my top mount manifold and let it rip

[milKt]

I'm thinking about switching to my top mount manifold and let it rip

not if you're selling it to me.

Toppy Papi

[Butters Stoch]

Don't know, but this steed is spooling mine rather well. Light years ahead of a 666 manifold setup. I'm real happy with it. After changing to a Tial gate, and putting in some safety pop off valves, I couldn't be happier. Car has never been this fast. 23-25psi is ripping.

[Matutino]

My car feels the fastest it has ever been, I'm going to the 1/4 mile end of the month to see what it does but still don't think the effort and fund spent justifies this manifold.