Chikinhed's Mini Build

[chikinhed]

Turbosmart Hypergate 45 max valve travel is 0.437".

Tial MVR 44 max valve travel is 0.609".

The external Turbosmart Hypergate I have installed has a brown/purple (7 psi) middle spring and a brown/pink (7 psi) outer spring as the box indicated.

I have applied pressure to the EWG and to the IWG and both crack open at about the same pressure. The IWG may have opened about one psi sooner. The Tial opens a couple of psi higher but this should not be a factor. Having 14 psi springs in the WGs should allow for more than 22 psi.

I have adjusted the preload on the IWG from 2 mm to 3 mm. I've got a couple more things I want to deal with before it comes off stands.

[chikinhed]

I finished up another round of 'To Do' list items on the M3 and did more troubleshooting. I increased the preload up to 3 mm on the IWG actuator and turned up the boost on the boost controller. Nothing changed. With the boost controller set at about 26-27 psi all I get is 21-22 psi initially and it tapers down to 18 psi by 5300 rpm. I guess the next thing to try is to remove the boost reference line from one of the waste gates to see if one is opening early. The external will be first. I also swapped in a new NTK O2 sensor for the AEM failsafe AFR gauge. I don't think the reading changed from the old sensor. It reads about 0.5 afr leaner than the Zeitronix at idle, maybe 1.0 at WOT.

No definitive easy answers here. At least it drives and it's pretty quick but the boost taper is lack luster.

[vollosso]

I feel like its the season of struggle, seems like everyones car is having troubles.


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[Butters Stoch]

I feel like its the season of struggle, seems like everyones car is having troubles.

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I wish, Butters be bored.

I should probably be careful saying that.

[chikinhed]

This whole process is like molasses. I've been bogged down with too many airplane projects to be able to dedicate any time to my car. Hopefully the I have a breakthrough soon.

[vollosso]

I wish, Butters be bored.

I should probably be careful saying that.

If youre bored you should hit up reilly he has quite the puzzle lol.


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[Butters Stoch]

If youre bored you should hit up reilly he has quite the puzzle lol.

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I will shoot him a text.

[chikinhed]

I've disconnect the bottom port on the EWG and only get a steady 19-20 psi now with the EBC set to 28 psi. The car will have to go back up on stands again to do this test on the IWG. I need a Dyno with a pit underneath.

[Butters Stoch]

I've disconnect the bottom port on the EWG and only get a steady 19-20 psi now with the EBC set to 28 psi. The car will have to go back up on stands again to do this test on the IWG. I need a Dyno with a pit underneath.

Your running a line to the top port of the EWG ?

[chikinhed]

Yes

[chikinhed]

I had a chance to go wot again and it is behaving the same as with the EWG hooked up.

[chikinhed]

I disconnected the hose from the top of the IWG and plugged it and now I get all the boosts at any EBC setting. EBC can't control the boost without the IWG hooked up.

I thought, maybe, even though I had obsessively checked the routing, that I crossed the hoses to the EWG so I tried swapping top and bottom hoses to see if it was any better but this time the boost climbed insanely fast, so that isn't it.

This is starting to point to weak IWG springs. The IWG gets installed on the turbo before the turbo gets installed. It will be loads of fun getting it out of there to check to see if it has the right springs. The box it came in says '14 psi' on it.

[PEI330Ci]

I disconnected the hose from the top of the IWG and plugged it and now I get all the boosts at any EBC setting. EBC can't control the boost without the IWG hooked up.

I thought, maybe, even though I had obsessively checked the routing, that I crossed the hoses to the EWG so I tried swapping top and bottom hoses to see if it was any better but this time the boost climbed insanely fast, so that isn't it.

This is starting to point to weak IWG springs. The IWG gets installed on the turbo before the turbo gets installed. It will be loads of fun getting it out of there to check to see if it has the right springs. The box it came in says '14 psi' on it.

So the top port of the IWG actuator opens that WG, and the bottom port of the EWG opens that WG?

[pbonsalb]

Yes. I run just one port on each wg and use those respective ports. My line from the boost control solenoid is teed.

[chikinhed]

So the top port of the IWG actuator opens that WG, and the bottom port of the EWG opens that WG?

Correct. The IWG connections are reverse to how an EWG operates per the install diagram.

[Matutino]

Painful having to remove the turbo to change the spring.
At least it seems you found the issue.

[vollosso]

I remember some testing a couple years ago and thinking everything under the heaviest spring was useless..


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[Butters Stoch]

EFR is good stuff, wish it was louder.

[chikinhed]

I remember some testing a couple years ago and thinking everything under the heaviest spring was useless.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm using a Turbosmart IWG actuator where you can pick any psi you want.

[chikinhed]

EFR is good stuff, wish it was louder.

I can faintly hear the turbo with my windows up, it's louder with the windows down.

[chikinhed]

Painful having to remove the turbo to change the spring. At least it seems you found the issue.

The IWG does come out without pulling the turbo if you are really patient.

I have confirmed that the IWG has a pink/brown and a purple/brown spring combo installed = 14 psi.

I have a nice Tial WG spring here that fits but who knows what affect it would have on the IWG. I could mess around with a spring tester and figure it out but I think I'm just going to leave the springs as they are and crank the preload up to to 6 mm and see if that helps... It should.

Assembled spring force is initially at about 40 lbs. they recommend 2 mm preload which is about 50 lbs. 6 mm of preload brings the initial spring force up to about 60 lbs. I'll loose about half of my WG travel though by doing that. If I remove the purple/brown spring and install the yellow Tial spring then my initial will be 60 lbs and I'll have more travel to play with. It's a big bitch to swap it out if it's totally wrong thought.

[chikinhed]

Now it spikes to 25-26 psi, settles down to 23 psi and tapers down to 20 psi after 5500 rpm. I can still control it to 14 psi with the EBC off for the failsafe.

This means that I may still have to install the Tial MVR in place of the TS Hypergate if it can do a better job of controlling the boost spikes.

Edit:

Looking at the datalog, it is spiking to 25 psi at 3500 rpm and comes down to 21 psi by 3650 rpm, stable until 5000 remand then tapers down to 17 psi by 5700 rpm and stays there until i lifted at 6900 rpm. Even on a lower boost setting, it peaks at 20 psi at 4600 rpm, drops to 16 psi by 5100 rpm then it drops at 6500 rpm down to 15 psi until redline.

On a side note, it looks like the transient response is a bit slower than the open 0.82 GTX3582R was. I am only looking at one catalog though and its not under the same conditions as the GTX3582R logs. More testing required.

[wazzu70]

Interesting. Geoff at full race might have some infos on the IWG if you search around or ask him. I assume you have already searched on the topic though.

[Butters Stoch]

Put the MVR in. The turbosmart sucks.

[bry195]

If you have an external ts wastegate they have a cap that you can put a wastegate position sensor on. Sensor is 10 bucks at junk yard. You can also get a linear magneto pot for the iwg.

Do you see a point in the log where the iwg might be opening but cannot wastegate enough?

you maight have better luck if you run the iwg to a lower boost on springs and only ebc the ewg. If you are trying to synch the signal pressure to trigger the valves together you should have no problems if the mass through the e and iwg is the same. Doesnt the mass change through the ewg change as the mass through the iwg is waste gated?

when you run on springs only without the signal line the mass through the exhaust overcomes the spring. If the 2 wg were in parallel to wg flow then you have something more controllable but if they are in series to the flow the signal pressure would be the same but not the mass flow.

If you had an iwg and ewg with the same spring force you should see the ewg open when the iwg is passing enough mass to act on the ewg valve + spring weight. Mass flow would take milliseconds or maybe seconds later. You might be able to balance the wgates by taking spring rate out of the one that gets delayed but you may also have to account for the area of the valve that exhaust mass is working against.