2000 Z3 CANbus?

[jhwrenchhead]

Hello,

Please excuse my ignorance as I am a new Z3 owner. I have a 2000 Z3 2.8 and am wondering if these chassis were converted to CANbus after 99? I am attempting an LS swap and the folks at wiring specialties believe it to be a CANbus system like the e46 chassis. Is there an easy way to tell either way? It appears the fusebox may be different?

Thanks!

[deni2s]

Maybe http://www.hc.lv/inc/Upload/news_290...AZ0025B42B.pdf page 45 might help you.

P.S. More manuals regarding Z3 available from here:
https://www.drive2.ru/l/3138409/

[rf900rkw]

CANBus is a very misused buzzword. It is merely a type of computer interconnection, a single bus rather than a gaggle of individual serial links. It says nothing about protocol, hardware, or data. The answer is sorta. All Z3's have a CANBus in the car. Really, though, it's bad question, akin to do you have internet at home. The question is what are they concerned about? Which modules? What data?

[jhwrenchhead]

Thanks for the quick replies! I guess I am specifically asking about the instrument cluster and what kind of signal needs to be fed to work properly. Is the 2000 Z3 different than pre-2000 Z3's? The chart that Deni2s referenced on page 45 states that the e36 chassis is a CAN system, but doesn't mention anything about build years. From what I understand, the instrument cluster on an e36 can be fed direct signals from the engine to work properly. Hence the "plug & play" harness options when swapping engines. Wiring Specialties believes a CAN converter must be used on the 99+ Z's. I am just looking for confirmation of that fact. Thanks!

[rf900rkw]

Again, CANbus is not an all or nothing thing. Yes, all Z3s have a CANbus. That does not mean all modules are on that bus. The DME, ABS, and EGS are always on the CANbus, all years. For your '00, the cluster is also on the bus. However, previous years and all M's are individual signals to the cluster. I'm sure someone savvy with NSCExpert could recode the cluster to do whatever you wanted.

[deni2s]

Just install instrument cluster from e46 then.

[328 Power 04]

Z3 cluster is special. It can be coded for both functions. No need to use e46.


z3 cluster.png

Stock 2000 Z3 cluster configuration switches.

[rf900rkw]

Not surprised. The Z3 was in at the beginning of BMW's modular electronics. I'd even go far as to wager there is a 8cyl setting for the tach.

I simply have to get myself an ADS cable working.

[328 Power 04]

Not surprised. The Z3 was in at the beginning of BMW's modular electronics. I'd even go far as to wager there is a 8cyl setting for the tach.

I simply have to get myself an ADS cable working.

My S52 Coupe uses the .C27 daten version instruments, which is very much E36 based, and not nearly as many functions.

My m52tu roadster uses .C02 daten cluster, which is nearly identical to E46 .C02 version.
The M52tu/M54 Z3 clusters diagnose fine via K line and USB KKL if you want to play.

[BimmerBreaker]

How much bus can a canbus bus if a canbus can bus bus?

[jhwrenchhead]

Well, I'm ready to have the cluster recoded to accept the analog LS signals. Is anyone available for hire to perform this task?

[328 Power 04]

Start with setting up INPA/ NCSExpert diagnostics as shown in my diagnostics thread, here in the Z3 subforum.

[fallguy]

Interesting I’m just looking at the same thing on my 2001 z3. I have a haltech elite 2500 that I would like to use the cluster with. Looking at the wiring diagram, it seems just the tachometer and temp gauge are can bus.

So because the cluster is funky and can be programmed... I might not need a module? A bit confusing to me. The diagram just shows the can + and can - feeding the two gauges from the ecu

[Turbo E36]

Interesting I’m just looking at the same thing on my 2001 z3. I have a haltech elite 2500 that I would like to use the cluster with. Looking at the wiring diagram, it seems just the tachometer and temp gauge are can bus.

So because the cluster is funky and can be programmed... I might not need a module? A bit confusing to me. The diagram just shows the can + and can - feeding the two gauges from the ecu

I having same problem with 2001 Z3 im running my M50 Turbo engine with MS41 as a standalone and could not get tach,temp gauge, cruise control, front cooling fan, E-fan and a/c compressor to work without CAM bus and there's no way to wire them to work that i found. Recoding not sure how thats done.

[fallguy]

Is this info anywhere? I understand you can recode the cluster. But then what wires will feed the signal to the tach and water temp.

I would pay to have someone help me with this.

Or should I just buy the can bus adapter... guess I could just shift when it bounces off the rev limiter and watch for smoke to see if its over heating.

[djb2]

I'll restate the info so that it is hopefully easier to understand.

BMW instrument clusters of that era were designed to bridge the transition from displaying the analog values directly from the sensors to displaying values reported over the digital communication links i.e. CAN bus and K-line.

To do that all of the gauges and lights are software driven. The instrument cluster is built with all of the analog input circuitry needed for traditional inputs, plus CAN bus and K-line communication. The microcontroller uses a software setting to decide if it should display the value it reads from a direct input wire, or wait for a CAN bus message with the information.

That way the same instrument cluster can be used with an older engine that had a directly wired temperature sensor and tach output, or an updated engine where that same information is reported using CAN messages. It can be used with a chassis that only has a reed switch on the differential, or one that reports the speed using the ABS controller.

This works-with-everything features was designed for the benefit of the factory, not for you. BMW doesn't document it. People have mostly reversed engineered the software EEPROM settings and the CAN bus messages, but not every detail. The chassis wiring harness is typically optimized for the few engines that the car might be built with, so a MY2000 harness is likely missing some wires that older chassis had e.g. to support the M52 and M52tu engines, just like the MY1999 chassis is missing the wires to support the throttle-by-wire needed with the M54.

[fallguy]

Thanks for the info. I just thought someone might of figured it out. Switched the settings and ran the wires to it. I haven’t looked at the software.

It might just be better for me to get the module from the after market guys. Lots of E46 out there with LS swaps and everything working.

[BimmerBreaker]

Thanks for the info. I just thought someone might of figured it out. Switched the settings and ran the wires to it. I haven’t looked at the software.

It might just be better for me to get the module from the after market guys. Lots of E46 out there with LS swaps and everything working.

It might just be easier for you to convert to a pre-facelift cluster which never had to do the CANBUS stuff in the first place. 97-98 non-M or S52 "M" clusters all work for this purpose.

You may have to re-wire some stuff behind the cluster to do that, but it may be easier in the long run. All of the information on LS swaps into E36s will include information on the pre-facelift style cluster. You could look up what S54 E36 swap guys do for the Z3M cluster, and do the reverse of that (S54 E36 swaps use Z3M CANBUS cluster, so they re-wire their cluster harnesses from the old style cluster to the facelift style because some wiring changed - by doing the REVERSE of that, you should be able to convert to pre-facelift style).
You may then need to run the A/C switch the old style too (that goes through the cluster) and possibly a few other things. BUT, these things should all be older, easier to understand wiring/switches.

You may also be able to simply code the cluster to act as the "conventional" type, and not need to re-wire anything. I'm not entirely sure. I don't think converting facelift Z3 clusters to pre-facelift inputs has been documented.

What modules are you looking at? I'm not familiar with any CANBUS integration modules that work as advertised (or work as advertised for long). I'm pretty active in a few engine swap groups and trying to figure out CANBUS on the E36 in particular (S54 E36 swaps) without the Z3M S54 cluster was something they were trying to do for ages. There were some options, but either they didn't work completely or after awhile they overheated and in some cases literally melted or fried some wires. I would be wary about aftermarket integration systems. I am not sure how much it would vary for LS motors, I am curious what is offered for those though and how it may differ from the options available I've seen talked about

[328 Power 04]

Yes, the stock cluster in the 3.0 coupe can easily be coded to accept analog inputs

[BimmerBreaker]

Yes, the stock cluster in the 3.0 coupe can easily be coded to accept analog inputs

Do you know how that works regarding wiring? I know the facelift and prefacelift clusters are wired differently. I guess I'm unsure if coding it to accept analogue inputs will work with the stock facelift wiring, or if that analog input coding option was designed to make the cluster plug and play as a replacement for prefacelift clusters

[fallguy]

I have found two companies that say their little box should work.

https://www.wiringspecialties.com/bm...canbus-module/


https://m.facebook.com/pages/categor...4834832/posts/

My buddy who is on this forum (v10 roadster dude) has all the software so I’m sure he will probably help me look into it. I’m more concerned about the wiring at this point.

The haltech elite 2500 that I’m using also has canbus. But they don’t have any coding to interface with the BMW gauges.