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Thread: Hand Brake/Turbo Questions...?

  1. #1
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    Question Hand Brake/Turbo Questions...?

    I have a 94' e36 325i Cabrio (convertible)
    I installed an in-line hydraulic handbrake a while back.
    1) I have bled the rear tires 3-4 different times, no air bubbles. But i still can't get the tires to lock up, even mid turn. Would not bleeding the front tires cause this?
    2) When i pull the lever of the handbrake, my car stalls and all my dash lights illuminate (CEL, ABS which is always on from me removing both relays, Braking System, Battery Light) I hold the clutch in while i pull the brake so it isn't the tires locking up that is causing the engine to stall.

    off-topic, would an investment in a turbo be a "no go" since this is a convertible? i have read that vert's are more prone to body flex, while also being heavier than the coupe/sedan. ps-i would like to cage it eventually. i've been thinking about a turbo for a while but not sure if it would make the car fast in terms of what I'm looking for. (something to run through the gears quickly with little lag, was looking at different differentials also)
    sorry for being all over the road with this post, thanks! -G

  2. #2
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    1) Yes
    2) Something is wrong or you only think you're pushing the clutch in. If you are pushing the clutch in, that might have an affect on #1
    3) Turbos are fine. a 4 point cage might be worth an investment at minimum

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  3. #3
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    thanks man! much appreciated!

  4. #4
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    Caging it eliminates the flex issue, plus caged verts are awesome.

    Yes, air in the system is air in the system. Some people report problems bleeding inlines, but I use a motive power bleeder and have never had an issue.

    No idea on the stalling. Does it do it even when you aren't moving? Car in Neutral? etc?

  5. #5
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    So I'm pretty sure that it is my camshaft pos. sensor that was making the car stall out, not the actual handbrake. I bled the front tires today (all tires bled) but it still doesn't lock the rears up. It is a generic 3/4(.75) cyl handbrake. My tires don't even want to lock up from the foot brake, although the foot brake stops my car well, unless i hammer the brakes which i have only done like 1 or 2 times. I have the ABS relays out. Should i try new pads/rotors? Im giving the handbrake all i have when i pull it. I also thought about making a longer handle for it, although I'm not sure if this would work either.

  6. #6
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    You mean you bled the brakes right? What size tires are you running in the rear.

    Here is the ASD sizing chart for handbrakes with factory calipers:

    Notice that they suggest a 5/8" master. Your 3/4" master is a bigger bore and will take more effort to lock up. The 5/8" will take more travel but will give you less input effort needed. On top of that, I've seen a few hydros that won't lock when you're going straight, but lock fine when you're close to the limit of grip already. I'm not saying that's great, but it'll get the job done.

    If you really want help, you need to give us as much information as possible. Pictures, video, specs of your whole brake setup, sizes for the fittings you used, or like hard lines or soft lines. Did you use used parts? Did you teflon the fittings (you shouldn't). What did you eat for breakfast? Seriously, mundane details to you are potentially your solution. We shouldn't have to assume you pulled the ABS relay, that information should have been in your first post. Same with the master cylinder size.

    Help me to help you. Help me to help you. Help me to help you.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  7. #7
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    Yes! I mean i bled the brakes*, I'm used to saying tires. I'm running 205/60/R15 Douglas Performance. It's saying i should be using the 5/8"(0.625") master. Would replacing or upgrading the brakes and extending the pull handle be of benefit? Or should i just grab a 5/8"(0.625") MS handbrake?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just noticed the bottom section. I will post pictures here in a little bit.

  8. #8
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    Unless you're buying a Big Brake Kit, switch to 5/8"
    instagram @andyitslit

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    Im confused. Now you just bled the fronts? You have to do all 4 every time a bleeder is opened, starting from the farthest from the master (pass rear) to the closest.

  10. #10
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    So i have to bleed all 4 brakes without starting the car? i have bled both front and rear. although when i bled the front i didn't do it in the same day. sorry for the delay, been sick the past few days. tomorrow I'm swapping cps so long as i can move.

  11. #11
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    DETAILS!

    You ALWAYS bleed the brakes from farthest to the closest caliper from the master cylinder. If you don't do them ALL at the SAME TIME you WILL have bubbles. If your brake pedal is at all spongy, you done it wrong.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  12. #12
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    Sorry in advance for being a dick guys, but I have to take exception with the notion that you always have to bleed all of the brakes. If you use a pressure bleeder, I really don't think it's always necessary. It also matters how much care you take to minimize the opportunity for fluid to drain from the individual line you are dealing with, and therefore minimize the opportunity for air to creep back up the line. I've played around with brake bleeding way more than I would like to remember over the years, for all sorts of reasons, and this is what I've learned. Air does creep in, but it isn't magic.

    On topic here though, clearly if you cut the main line to the rear brakes in the middle to install a pass-through handbrake, you'd probably better be bleeding all of the brakes. Anyway, I apologize for being argumentative, but if it saves someone here some trouble in the future it's worth it.

  13. #13
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    I agree. You are making an exception though. If you're bleeding the brakes, your fluid is probably old and you want to flush out all of the water in the lines. So unless you're bleeding the brakes for the 8th time in 2 weeks, it's rule of thumb to bleed all the brakes. Especially with OP's case. We don't know so much about what he has done. He gives us generalities, we must respond with generalities.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

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  15. #15
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    How to bleed brakes with an inline hydro.
    1) bleed all 4 corners as normal, starting with the passenger rear, using the foot pedal only, do not touch the ebrake whatsoever while you do this.
    2) after brakes are bled, re bleed the rear brakes only , starting with pass rear again, using only the ebrake, do not touch the foot brake this time.
    3) after brakes have been bled and no air is coming out of the bleeder, you are done. Test brake pedal for solid pressure and ebrake for pressure.

    I've done it like this every time I've installed an ebrake and it worked 100% of the time.

    With my stock m3 rear brakes, I use a 5/8 master cylinder from a Honda Civic clutch. Works great and can lock 245's in a straight line in the dry. I used the same setup in my old 318 and it locked 225's no problem aswell.

  16. #16
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    Last edited by M50 Project; 02-09-2017 at 11:55 PM.

  17. #17
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    i think it may be then 3/4 cylinder. could be wrong though. all lines are a smooth flow as om bleeding them.

  18. #18
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    Can't really see if you routed the lines correctly on your photo's. Are you sure you put the line from the front of your car into the rear port of your handbrake and from the front port to the rear of your car?

    Is it possible that the pistons are stuck in your rear brake calipers?

    Are your rear brake pads in good conditions?

  19. #19
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    > 0.75 stamped on the side of the master cylinder
    > still doesn't know what size the master cylinder is
    > mentions ABS light is on in-dash
    > no sign of a tee line in the photos of OPs' work
    > do I spy an additional brake line in the background?

    Find an IRL mechanic/car guy friend OP. You are in need of guidance and knowledge which cannot be sufficiently imparted via the internet
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalopi View Post
    > 0.75 stamped on the side of the master cylinder
    > still doesn't know what size the master cylinder is
    > mentions ABS light is on in-dash
    > no sign of a tee line in the photos of OPs' work
    > do I spy an additional brake line in the background?

    Find an IRL mechanic/car guy friend OP. You are in need of guidance and knowledge which cannot be sufficiently imparted via the internet
    He mentioned it was a 3/4 and that he already knew that. Some E36 have 3 channel ABS, meaning only 1 rear line. Looks like he interrupted the rear brake line prior to the T which splits it to both rear wheels. No need to be a dick. The dude is here to learn. I'm sure there was a time when you didn't know how all this worked either.

    OP: What brake pads do you have? It might be worth it to try a more aggressive bite pad once you are confident you have no air in the brake system and it still isn't locking to your liking.

    When your engine stalls, it is likely due to a vacuum leak or another problem. When you push in the clutch and pull the handbrake, your revs will naturally drop but should catch at idle unless you have a vacuum leak or some other issue. You can try blipping the throttle a little while pulling the handbrake to keep the revs up, which will prevent it from stalling. You'll need to learn to do that eventually anyway, since usually after a handbrake pull you're getting back on the gas shortly and off the clutch and need revs. It is normal when the engine stalls for all the dash lights to come on. It's just like starting your car first thing in the morning. In the key ON position just before start, all of the dash essentially lights up. Same thing happens after you kill the engine while pulling the handbrake or out driving or anything. Nothing to worry about.

    When you bleed the brakes with a hydro or not, you should always do them in this order only: Right Rear, Left Rear, Right Front, Left Front (on LHD cars). This is the method others were saying of farthest from the brake master cylinder first, leading up to the closest brake caliper at left front. Do them in this order, and then rebleed the rears using the hydro like Mike above mentioned. It can be a little tricky to get all of the air out of an inline hydro. Just have a friend come over and help you pump the pedal while you bleed them. Make sure you are closing the bleeder promptly after your friend's foot hits the floor with the brake pedal. A pressure bleeder is a great investment if you can spring for one that just screws on to the reservoir under the hood.

    You can turbocharge the car if you like. The convertible body flex does exist, but turbocharging the car won't create any serious issues or twist the car in half or anything. Go for it if you want. I would definitely buy a bolt-on kit that is 100% complete to avoid any additional headache, since a turbo install is fairly complex.

    Mike
    Last edited by MikeE36; 02-11-2017 at 07:16 AM.
    IG: @mikevanshellenbeck

  21. #21
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    IMO people should stop replying to this thread until he gives full info about EVERYTHING. You can't diagnose with a fraction of the information. If you can't put effort into your post, we shouldn't put effort into replying.

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  22. #22
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    A 5/8 cylinder will be much better, you got the biggest cylinder. Which is meant for big multi piston calipers.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeE36 View Post
    No need to be a dick. The dude is here to learn



    OP is looking for an easy answer

    And quit it with the white knighting, this is Trumps' America now
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  24. #24
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    I knew it was 3/4 (post #5). abs was on from me pulling relays(also post #5). splits in back. i cut before t-line. fuel line* and not sure of the others.

    - - - Updated - - -

    no idea of the brake pads. engine stall from from bad cps and me turning hard into a corner. might need to replace tps also. that is how i bled them. with the exception of the fronts. i feel the brake doing something when i pull the brake but not much. i will probably look into a PB. thanks!

  25. #25
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    what else do you need/ i don't know what I'm missing? brake pads i know nothing about. haven't pulled them to check them out as my foot brake still being fine. 3/16 brake line. brakes don't feel spongy. fittings I'm not sure, went to a brake shop to get them. couldn't find the fittings online. the lines are run correctly as my foot brake still works along with the hand brake(doesn't work well and doesn't lock tires). i think its just shitty pads with the wrong size MC. ill figure it out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    i will probably just end up getting a 5/8 cyl. not sure when though. trying to figure out if i need to replace tps as I'm the process to get the car running tiptop.

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