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Thread: Looking for some guidance

  1. #1
    mslevin's Avatar
    mslevin is offline Have you checked RealOEM? BMW CCA Member
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    Looking for some guidance

    Hi everyone,

    I've owned my 93 325 for just over a year now, and I'm at the point where I'd like to make it into more of a track car. Not sure I want to go full stripped interior and 6 point cage with door bars quite yet, but something that works better on the track and is less of a street car. I do have another car I drive to work most days, but I'd like to still be able to drive this around town every once in a while.

    Here are my current mods:
    • 1993 E36 325is
    • Felony Form overfenders, M3 bumpers, M3 sideskirts, M3 mouldings (with black tape over the M3 badge, don't want to be a poser)
    • Apex Arc 8 17x9.5
    • Hankook RS3 255/40R17
    • M3 exhaust (currently have a muffler delete section on for fun, but I do have a muffler for it)
    • Rogue Engineering Transmission Mounts
    • M3 motor mounts
    • E46 330Ci front calipers and rotors
    • 3.23 LSD
    • Hawk HT-10 pads (just got them, haven't installed yet)
    • ECS Steel Brake lines
    • Motul RBF 600 Brake Fluid
    • SPAL electric fan (engine fan removed)
    • Bimmerworld engine fan delete kit (80C thermostat, lower temp fan switch, water wetter)
    • Ground Control coilovers (pretty sure they're the Clubsport kit)
    • KW camber plates
    • 650lbs front 800lbs rear springs
    • Megan Racing rear camber arms
    • Dinan ECU chip
    • Teflon shifter bushings
    • Jaffster tall shift knob
    • Sparco R100 reclining seat (on a custom mount)
    • Schroth 4 point ASM harness (used on the track)
    • Refreshed cooling system (hoses etc)
    • Racing Dynamics 27mm front sway bar
    • Racing Dynamics strut tower brace


    Looking for some guidance as to what to do next. The goal isn't to build a total track rat (yet), but to move to more track car and less street car.

    I'd like to put a 4 point cage, seat, 6 point, and steering wheel in. The issue there is that I'm a big guy (6'5" ~300lbs), and I'm worried that the combination of cage (I'm thinking a bolt in, don't really want to spend a ton on a custom one), larger fixed back seat (Sparco Evo 3 or similar), and the seating position I need just won't work. I haven't done subframe reinforcements yet; got a quote for $1000 to do it which seems crazy. Might try the panel adhesive route and do it myself.

    The car also needs a clutch, sooner rather than later. OEM? Lightweight flywheel?

    Let me know if you gave any other questions. I'm looking to spend $2000-3000 on the car in the next few months. All recommendations and inputs are much appreciated.
    Last edited by mslevin; 02-06-2017 at 11:17 PM. Reason: Keep forgetting things in my list of mods

  2. #2
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    Bushings. All of the bushings.

    Cooling. All of the cooling.

  3. #3
    mslevin's Avatar
    mslevin is offline Have you checked RealOEM? BMW CCA Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan View Post
    Bushings. All of the bushings.

    Cooling. All of the cooling.
    Cooling system is all new in the last 8k miles or so, that was the first thing I did.

    As far as I can tell all the bushings up front look good, all new and some are poly. I do need to do diff bushings, I figure I'll tackle that when I do subframe reinforcements.

  4. #4
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    you have more things done then my track only car.
    interoir carpet and bits weigh a ton. most cage setups require some interior stuff to go. at least rear seats and such IMO it just looks funny with back seat half removed or trim half removed. at that point take it all out you don't wanna keep for comfort like ac/heat.
    if caged no one is sitting back there anyways. even the trunk strip it too. using harness without cage is not a path i am taking.
    i think some attention to safety would be a good idea, you have a lot of go fast stuff. a proper FIA seat and roll cage. a proper cage can be placed to accommodate the driver and seat position.
    a steering wheel with extension hub since your tall is nice. i have a 2" extension on my sparco wheel and its more comfortable with arms bent slightly.
    i was quoted 6pt installed for 2000. and nice seat would fit in your 3000.

  5. #5
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    I agree with poweredbyg60. Cage is imperative as far as I am concerned. But, I'm biased as I build them. I am 6'4" myself and 300 as well. With a properly built cage I fit with no issues. A proper race seat is a must as well. You will actually perform better when you are supported correctly. I will assume by your description you are in Cali, so cage prices might be considerably higher than most everywhere else. Look around, the cars are more than capable as is. Make it safer.
    Chris Leone
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  6. #6
    mslevin's Avatar
    mslevin is offline Have you checked RealOEM? BMW CCA Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXLBIMMER View Post
    I agree with poweredbyg60. Cage is imperative as far as I am concerned. But, I'm biased as I build them. I am 6'4" myself and 300 as well. With a properly built cage I fit with no issues. A proper race seat is a must as well. You will actually perform better when you are supported correctly. I will assume by your description you are in Cali, so cage prices might be considerably higher than most everywhere else. Look around, the cars are more than capable as is. Make it safer.
    Thanks for the advice. What seat are you running? And yep, seems like here in California cages are more expensive. A weld-in 4 point is probably $3k, with cross bracing and all that.

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    As others have said, cage and safety. But get all the bushings refreshed and the front and rear subframe and rtab reinforcements done.

    Also check these guys out. Seen some of their work and it looks fantastic. I got a quote from them and it's significantly cheaper than other shops that I've talked to for a rear half cage. They are located in placerville. They will be doing my cage when the time comes.

    http://rotundbaby.com/hamster/contact-us/

  8. #8
    mslevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjh102 View Post
    As others have said, cage and safety. But get all the bushings refreshed and the front and rear subframe and rtab reinforcements done.

    Also check these guys out. Seen some of their work and it looks fantastic. I got a quote from them and it's significantly cheaper than other shops that I've talked to for a rear half cage. They are located in placerville. They will be doing my cage when the time comes.

    http://rotundbaby.com/hamster/contact-us/
    I'll definitely give them a call. I got a quote for $1000 to do subframe reinforcements from TC Designs here in Campbell. They seem to be the go-to place for cages around here, but they're not cheap.

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    I've been meaning to message you for a couple weeks, I just got my subframe & rear trailing arm pockets reinforced, and a 4 point roll bar with harness bar for around 2k. Shop is located at Willow Springs in Rosamond, CA. So quite a drive for you (4 hours)... But worth it obviously if you can live without the car for 3-4 weeks. Message me for more info about the experience as I am not affiliated, just a satisfied customer.

    https://www.facebook.com/VisionaryPerformance/

    I also have sources I share with some Bimmer Challenge hopefuls for seats/safety equipment at about half the price you normally see them, with free shipping.

    As for the clutch, the single mass flywheel & clutch that Valeo makes on ECS or what I have seen being used by many NASA & TT competitors http://gripforce.com/fx-stage-2-clut...34-e36-e39-v6/

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    I think a sensible next step would be a $600ish 4pt bolt in roll bar. It will allow you to run the next stage of safety with proper seats, 6pt harness, etc.

    I wouldn't advise a weld in 4 point since they cost a lot more, can't be resold, and have to be essentially scrapped if you want to do a 6pt weld in cage later.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mslevin View Post
    I'll definitely give them a call. I got a quote for $1000 to do subframe reinforcements from TC Designs here in Campbell. They seem to be the go-to place for cages around here, but they're not cheap.
    Not sure what their hourly rate is but $1000 for that job doesn't sound too outrageous. The whole rear end of the car needs to be dropped in order to do it. Plus prep plus paint and sealing plus reinstalling.


    Again give those guysi sent you a call and see what they have to say. Probably can do the reinforcements while they have the car there for less than tc design.

  12. #12
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    Definitely will, thanks!

    Related note, anyone have suggestions for brake pads? I ordered Hawk HT-10 but the rears were stolen in transit (replacement on the way, thanks Amazon) and I ordered the wrong ones for the front. The right ones are close to $250, almost $100 more than I thought. Looking for a mainly track pad that works okay on the street. I had Hawk HP+ (or HPS, not sure tbh) before and they're crap. Fine at low temps but once you start pushing them you might as well not have any brakes at all.

  13. #13
    mslevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Neverlift View Post
    I've been meaning to message you for a couple weeks, I just got my subframe & rear trailing arm pockets reinforced, and a 4 point roll bar with harness bar for around 2k. Shop is located at Willow Springs in Rosamond, CA. So quite a drive for you (4 hours)... But worth it obviously if you can live without the car for 3-4 weeks. Message me for more info about the experience as I am not affiliated, just a satisfied customer.

    https://www.facebook.com/VisionaryPerformance/

    I also have sources I share with some Bimmer Challenge hopefuls for seats/safety equipment at about half the price you normally see them, with free shipping.

    As for the clutch, the single mass flywheel & clutch that Valeo makes on ECS or what I have seen being used by many NASA & TT competitors http://gripforce.com/fx-stage-2-clut...34-e36-e39-v6/
    I've heard good things about the GripForce clutches. I'll message you in the next week or so about safety equipment and cages!

  14. #14
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    If you're getting the subframe done get the trailing arm pockets done at the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mslevin View Post
    Thanks for the advice. What seat are you running? And yep, seems like here in California cages are more expensive. A weld-in 4 point is probably $3k, with cross bracing and all that.
    I figured that would be the case. I can do a complete 6 point SCCA legal cage for 3k. Except that is here in Florida, doesn't do you much good. I have a custom Ultra Shield seat. I'm not the usual dumpy 300 pounder. It's a 17 1/2 wide seat, the shoulders are 4 inches wider, and the belt holes are 2 inches higher. It's a full containment seat. It was about $1100 2 years ago. If I can figure out how to get pics on here, I will post them up.
    Chris Leone
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    1984 318i now 325is
    1994 325is STU racecar
    1988 325is donor

  16. #16
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  17. #17
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    Good fabricators can weld in a "half cage" in the rear of the car and add to it later to make a full cage. No need to scrap the rear part.

    Safety - no reclining seats, no 4-points. Fixed-back and 6-point only. Make sure you do the same on the passenger side, as your instructor must have equivalent safety to what you have.

    Brakes - Performance Friction PFC.08's are wonderful and last forever. I run Hawks now (DTC-60) because they have a contingency program for NASA competitors, but found that at a lower "non race" type of pad, I preferred the PFC compounds.
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  18. #18
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    mslevin, don't forget to search. I generaly use google with the "site:bimmerforums.com" option instead of the default search. This chassis is 25yrs old, everythings been done before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brake_L8 View Post
    Good fabricators can weld in a "half cage" in the rear of the car and add to it later to make a full cage. No need to scrap the rear part.

    Safety - no reclining seats, no 4-points. Fixed-back and 6-point only. Make sure you do the same on the passenger side, as your instructor must have equivalent safety to what you have.

    Brakes - Performance Friction PFC.08's are wonderful and last forever. I run Hawks now (DTC-60) because they have a contingency program for NASA competitors, but found that at a lower "non race" type of pad, I preferred the PFC compounds.
    How would you compare the initial bite and torque of the PFC08s to the DTC-60s? I've run DTC-60s for the past few years, but am thinking about trying something new. I'd like a little more bite and pad life. I've heard how long PFC08s last and that their feels holds up well to the end, but I've read their bite/torque is lesser.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan View Post
    mslevin, don't forget to search. I generaly use google with the "site:bimmerforums.com" option instead of the default search. This chassis is 25yrs old, everythings been done before.
    Definitely been searching a lot, just wanted to get some more specific help!

    Whats the consensus on oil pan baffles? Worth the money? I ordered a VAC one from BW. Need to do my oil pan gasket, so I figured I'd do OPN at the same time. Just unsure about spending the money on having it welded. Don't want to take it somewhere cheap that hasn't done it before, also don't want to burn money on having a race shop do it. Looks like Hard Motorsport used to do an exchange program, but can't find any info about that now.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mslevin View Post
    Definitely been searching a lot, just wanted to get some more specific help!

    Whats the consensus on oil pan baffles? Worth the money? I ordered a VAC one from BW. Need to do my oil pan gasket, so I figured I'd do OPN at the same time. Just unsure about spending the money on having it welded. Don't want to take it somewhere cheap that hasn't done it before, also don't want to burn money on having a race shop do it. Looks like Hard Motorsport used to do an exchange program, but can't find any info about that now.
    I can't speak to whether it has been worth it or not, but I got the same baffle and had it welded in. I went to a local shop that does both service and track prep with my spare oil pan and they did it for ~$100, which is basically an hour of labor + consumables which seemed reasonable. Most reputable shops that do any sort of performance work and have a welder probably have someone who is competent enough to put it in, and it shouldn't be more than 1-1.5 hours of labor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXLBIMMER View Post
    Looks like your links are broken

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    side.jpgwindshield.jpgDoes this work?
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  23. #23
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    Will the e46 front subframe fit into an e36 chassis ?

  24. #24
    mslevin's Avatar
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    Small update: ordered a Sparco L, Schroth harness, and a bolt in cage (semi-custom to fit my seating position). New brakes are on and are wild, AKG shifter is installed and is crazy fun.

    Realized my steering rack is leaking, and unfortunately I have a small head gasket leak. Right at cyl #6, there seems to be a small drip of coolant from the head. No overheating issues, seems to be a very slow leak. Oil and coolant look okay. At this point I'm pretty sure its a purely external leak.

    Here's the current plan, in some kind of chronological order:
    • Remove some interior + weight reduction (rear seats, door cards, A/C maybe, etc)
    • Install cage
    • Install seat (will have to make some custom brackets)
    • Replace steering rack, lines, and reservoir
    • Remove oil pan for gasket, safety wired OPN, and get the baffle welded in
    • Oil filter housing gasket
    • Clutch
    • Firmer engine mounts and trans mounts
    • Rear subframe- reinforcements and bushings
    • New camber arms possibly, the ones I have aren't great
    • DIY headgasket and whatever else I can do with the head off
    • TBD


    Lots to do

  25. #25
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    Chiming in late....I didn't see what track experience you have, sorry if I missed it. But, if you're novice status, you don't need a lot of the mods you've listed.
    Also, if you truly have a head gasket leak (rather than a valve cover leak), IMO there's no such thing as a minor one on a track car.

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