E39 seats plug in

[amancuso]

I need to find some good E38 or M5 seats...
I am not sure if it is the cushion or the heating element that is the problem (burning my leg and bum).

You can always take the seat out and remove the leather to have a look at the heating element.

[Bmwe39528i1998]

Removing the whole wiring harness didn't work. The connector for thigh support is different, no such connector exists on the old plug with round pins.

[CPHES]

Eh? Not sure what you mean. I know that I put in an e38 sport seat into a e39 - both yellow plug cars. The old seat had no thigh bolster. New one works flawlessly.

[Bmwe39528i1998]

You got lucky, you got the same connectors.
I have old connectors in my car and new yellow connectors on the sport seat I'm trying to put in.
I can't seem to find the pinouts or wiring diagrams to cut off old connector and put on the new one.

[CPHES]

E38.org is your friend. http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/493685. Does that help?

[Bmwe39528i1998]

I've seen that post. While the author showed that it can be done, he didn't clearly lay out what wire goes where.
Trying to just match the colors is very lame approach I think. Especially given that the number of wires is different on two connectors. He doesn't mention what he did with extra wires and he does not make a clear explanation what pin # on old connector goes to what pin # on new connector. That would've been nice.

That's what's been frustrating with looking for info. Can't find a single post with clear information...just some mumbo jumbo😆
All that's needed is side by side wiring pinout for both connectors. I know I'm missing something... I can't find pinout on tis for the new connector/plug which means I'm doing something wrong.

Even if I look e39 after 1999, the connector shown is still old style black connector with round pins.
Maybe I need to get a vin of e39 with new yellow connectors and try searching by vin to get the pinout information.
I've found 2 of the 3 connectors for the old plug, now need one more for the old plug and then the new plug pinout.

[CPHES]

Well, that is as good as it gets for a 20+ year old issue. I’ve referenced that post numerous times. It’s pretty clear - if it does not meet your level of required detail, maybe you need to pay someone else to do it.

[Bmwe39528i1998]

Someone will know

[jicaino]

Someone will know

Wanting to be bottle feed the information it's pretty bad man. His writeup covers something that hasn't been covered, maybe you need to complement it with new info/pictures instead of bitching like a little girl. Also there's like 6 threads where they show spliced connectors for seats where instead of repin, some guys opted for splice and keep both connectors. I have been antsy when I was doing something I didn't quite understand before, but you attract more flies with honey than what you do with crap.

Your old vs. new connectors date is 3/99. Anything before has the black connectors for single stage airbags. Anything after, yellow and black and dual stage airbags.

Color splicing isn't a bad suggestion if you're aware of certain changes like blue and orange going from solid color on older cars to white with a color stripe on newer cars. And some of the connectors are the same but keyed differently or pinned out differently (most notoriously the lumbar support pump connector)

[Bmwe39528i1998]

I definitely haven't seen sitting around waiting...I've been looking everywhere for the last few days, but I feel like I'm stuck and need a little help getting over the hump. I don't like the idea of giving up and going to a mechanic, who likely won't know any better.

All the related threads I read, no one really figured it out. All that's needed for that is a simple pinout.
I'm not bitching, just frustrated that I can't find the pinout.

All the people who did splicing etc still had different kinds of issues.

Just read this thread
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...nnectors/page2

You'll see how many issues people have been having with splicing. 2 connectors is not a problem, but rather that you get stuck with extra wires you don't know what to do with lol!

I added info how I moved over the seat belt tensioner which I haven't seen in detail before. I will add more exact info and pictures for the retrofit, I just want to maximize my chances of getting in right instead of having to take my seat out multiple times to reconnect different wires and see if it fixes the problems.

I would be happy to provide exact pin to pin information. I hope I'll figure it out soon

[jicaino]

I definitely haven't seen sitting around waiting...I've been looking everywhere for the last few days, but I feel like I'm stuck and need a little help getting over the hump. I don't like the idea of giving up and going to a mechanic, who likely won't know any better.

All the related threads I read, no one really figured it out. All that's needed for that is a simple pinout.
I'm not bitching, just frustrated that I can't find the pinout.

All the people who did splicing etc still had different kinds of issues.

Just read this thread
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...nnectors/page2

You'll see how many issues people have been having with splicing. 2 connectors is not a problem, but rather that you get stuck with extra wires you don't know what to do with lol!

I added info how I moved over the seat belt tensioner which I haven't seen in detail before. I will add more exact info and pictures for the retrofit, I just want to maximize my chances of getting in right instead of having to take my seat out multiple times to reconnect different wires and see if it fixes the problems.

I would be happy to provide exact pin to pin information. I hope I'll figure it out soon

Back when I retrofitted the lumbar support (bladder, diverter valve, pump) I found the driver's seat preinstalled and the passenger needed the harness. I butchered a harness and repacked it along with the seat. Donor was a single stage car, and mine's a dual stage. The wires are pretty much the same. Much to my later regret I threw away the notes on which wire went where.

What issues are you having? Most of the wires match. Some of them need repining in the distal end (near to the drive motor, switch or junction) but are a match on the seat to body connector (aka the hub connector). IIRC you need to repin the dual stage airbag pretensioner (which is easy indentifyable because you have 2 wires on one and 3 in the dual) 2 of the remaining connectors are direct swap and you need to repin the lumbar support pump connector, which has a keyed 3 pin contactor housing and on earlier car it's middle and side, while on newer cars the middle one's empty and it has them pins on the ends of the 3 pins housing)

[Bmwe39528i1998]

Honestly I don't have any issues yet. But trying to prevent them in the future. I just wanted the pinouts and couldn't understand why I can't find them lol...especially for the old connector, I got X275 and X10214, but it does not give the number for the connector in the middle of those two. So weird.

I went ahead and just connected the wires with the same colors, since I wasn't getting any closer to finding the pinouts...

On the old connector, I got 3 extra wires so far.
One is blue and black, another two are brown and black.
On the new connector, I got one brown and black wire.
Since I have 2 of the same wire left on the old connector, I'm not sure which one of the two brown black wires on the old connector I should connect to the brown black on the new connector.

And then what to do with the blue and black wire and the other extra brown and black wire which will be extra once I connect one of the 2 brown black wires to the new connector.

- - - Updated - - -

[Bmwe39528i1998]

IIRC you need to repin the dual stage airbag pretensioner (which is easy indentifyable because you have 2 wires on one and 3 in the dual) 2 of the remaining connectors are direct swap and you need to repin the lumbar support pump connector, which has a keyed 3 pin contactor housing and on earlier car it's middle and side, while on newer cars the middle one's empty and it has them pins on the ends of the 3 pins housing)

You lost me here, especially with 2 vs 3 wires for pretensiner. I'm pretty sure bity were 2 wires

[jicaino]

Honestly I don't have any issues yet. But trying to prevent them in the future. I just wanted the pinouts and couldn't understand why I can't find them lol...especially for the old connector, I got X275 and X10214, but it does not give the number for the connector in the middle of those two. So weird.

I went ahead and just connected the wires with the same colors, since I wasn't getting any closer to finding the pinouts...

On the old connector, I got 3 extra wires so far.
One is blue and black, another two are brown and black.
On the new connector, I got one brown and black wire.
Since I have 2 of the same wire left on the old connector, I'm not sure which one of the two brown black wires on the old connector I should connect to the brown black on the new connector.

And then what to do with the blue and black wire and the other extra brown and black wire which will be extra once I connect one of the 2 brown black wires to the new connector.

- - - Updated - - -

pretty sure the brown/blacks splice together and the blue/black should be white with a blue stripe on the new.

[jicaino]

You lost me here, especially with 2 vs 3 wires for pretensiner. I'm pretty sure bity were 2 wires

Maybe I'm mixing up the recolection of the 3 pin keyed housing with the pretensioner...

Regarding the splice, there's numerous wires that gets spliced together along the harness. If you've got the 2 seats, (or at least the 2 full wiring looms) you can easily trace the problematic wires and see where they lead you.

Another useful thing to document (which I lost! I had and I lost) would be which pin in each connector leads where.

The old harnes vs. the new harness could have differences and extra wires that weren't used, EG if the black connector came in a 7 series seat it might have been already wired for the addition of active seats feature, or other higher end specs/optionals. Compared to post 3/99 when they were phasing out the 7 series, there's more "pre" higher spec'd seats.

[Bmwe39528i1998]

Have you checked https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...nnectors/page2

You will see what I did with pre tensioner.

Ok so I connect 2 browns from and connector and 1 brown from new connector together. That sounds about right, they must all be grounds.

Now I've got black blue wire left which you believe goes to white/blue on the new connector. Pin 23?
But I've already connected white and blue on the old connector with white and blue on the new connector.

Maybe ill have to trace what wire goes where on the seat...

[TiagE39]

Hi Bmwe39528i1998, I'm sorry no one here has taken the time to explain the basics to you, but I think that would clear up a lot of your confusion! You can't just match wire colors, you need to know their functions to make the conversion correctly.

I think you're assuming that the connector numbers changed with the wiring update in 3/99, but they did not. There are pre-and-post 3/99 versions of X275 (driver's seat connector) and X279 (passenger seat connector). I know also you saw that diagram assigning a number to the add-on connector next to X279, but that's just for the passenger-side seat sensor and separate from what we're trying to do here. X275 refers to all of the seat functions on that connector, not just the 6-pin section (there is no separate number for the middle part)

Reading the TIS diagrams for both pre-and-post 3/99 X275 styles reveals the following for your surplus wires.

• BL/SW - Blue with Black Stripe - switch sensor wire for seat belt. When the belt is in, a switch is closed and this is energized to 12V. Wire goes to connector X10117 - Light Control module. This wire is only present on black connector cars, because the LCM monitor's the driver's belt use and is responsible for extinguishing the reminder light on the cluster (as with all check functions on the IKE - the LCM is technically also named the Light and Check module). On later cars, this wire is deleted since the airbag module itself monitors the driver's seatbelt switch through the BL/VI wire (which you also have, but it isn't used for that purpose on a black connector car) and the airbag control informs the LCM through an I or K bus message. I'm not sure if you should leave this wire disconnected (the LCM may be smart enough to find the driver's seat belt status through I/K bus if it can't find it at X10117) or splice it into your BL/VI wire (on the car side of the seat harness) coming from the seatbelt switch to clone the 12V function.
• BR/SW - Brown with Black Stripe - Brown with any color stripe on a BMW usually means a "branch ground" (ground wire that is later on spliced into a main grounding point, usually at a body ground shoe connector) but it may also mean a "grounded signal" (I.e. grinding this wire activates a module somewhere else). Unfortunately, the two BR/SW wires you have are each one of these types so they are not interchangeable grounds. On a black connector seat, one BR/SW is a ground signal for your steering wheel adjustment switch (one of four to do all the directions of the switch) and the other is a branch ground for the seatbelt switch. The yellow connector seats use a different seatbelt switch that does not need a separate ground reference, hence on those seats there is only one BR/SW, for the steering wheel control. According to the TIS diagrams, the BR/SW for the wheel on your black connector is Pin 20, while the BR/SW for the seatbelt switch (remember, no longer used) is Pin 2. Therefore Pin 2 should stay disconnected while Pin 20 should be connected to the single BR/SW coming from the seat.

Hope this helps!

[Bmwe39528i1998]

So one of the brown/black wires that's not going anywhere is pin 3 on connector X10230 and is responsible for steering column memory/adjustment

[Bmwe39528i1998]

And the other brown black wire that's leftover is from pin 6 on connector 10214. Which is a normal ground it looks like.
Blue and black is pin 8 on X10214 and is Belt signal.

[Bmwe39528i1998]

X275 refers to all of the seat functions on that connector, not just the 6-pin section (there is no separate number for themiddle part)

Hey Tiag thanks for jumping in!

Do you mean X275 refers to all seat function on the new connector?
Because for the old connector, it's made of 3 parts: X275, X10214 and X10230.

On the new yellow connector, it is made up of 4 connectors that can be pulled out and 2 wires for the belt pretensioner that cannot be removed.

- - - Updated - - -

When you say there is no separate number for the middle part, is it not X10230?
Or are you referring to the new yellow connector, or something else?

[Bmwe39528i1998]

Thanks for your help. I understand I can leave the blue black wire disconnected on the old connector for now. And if my seat belt like does not go out when I put it on, I should connect it to BL/VI wire by the seatbelt, but not anywhere on the new connector.

[Bmwe39528i1998]

According to the TIS diagrams, the BR/SW for the wheel on your black connector is Pin 20, while the BR/SW for the seatbelt switch (remember, no longer used) is Pin 2. Therefore Pin 2 should stay disconnected while Pin 20 should be connected to the single BR/SW coming from the seat.

This gets tricky again. Sorry I'm confused...there is no Pin 20 on the black connector. Pin 20 on the yellow connector is Brown/white.
Ground for seatbelt switch would be Pin 6 on X10214 on the black connector.

Steering column ground is pin 3 on connector X10230, not Pin 20.

Should I then connect brown black wire on pin 3 on connector X10230 to the brown black wire on pin 19 of the yellow connector? (Pin 19)

Or am I still getting mixed up?

[TiagE39]

Actually, it's the TIS that is mixed up, not you or me. For whatever reason, the diagrams for X275/X279 show *all* of the seat connector conductors, including those which are also referred to by X10230 (seat memory controls) and X10214 (airbag controls/signals). This may have been done so that the TIS diagram for the seat connector is "universal" and doesn't omit any optional features, but it is misleading in context of you've found with the two additional connector numbers.

I also realized after sending my last message that the pin numbering on TIS diagrams is often incorrect and it's better to rely on the wire colors. There may be alternate pin numbering on the X275 shell, but let's not rely on that then. We can logic our answer a different way:

Your assessment in your last post sounds correct, since conductors for shared functions would be grouped together. X10230 does the seat memory functions (the power steering wheel is considered a sub-feature of that equipment) so the BR/SW there is what should bridge across the connector. And yes the yellow connector should only have one BR/SW then, due to the change in seatbelt switch styles. This leaves the BR/SW on X10214 unconnected, it serves no purpose now.

Your notes on the BL/SW are correct as well, test it with it unconnected. If it doesn't work, splice it into the BL/VI on the car side as this is also 12V triggered by the seatbelt insertion. Thinking about it, the latter strategy is probably the correct answer, but it's better to avoid modifying wiring if we can.

[Bmwe39528i1998]

Looks like TIS has some issues for sure.
Most annoying is that I can't find a picture of the new yellow connector or its pinout.
I guess they didn't include it at all, which sucks!
Maybe they left all wires on X275 diagram for the yellow connector? Hard to tell.
I can probably check pin number and compare to corresponding colors to be able to tell if the diagram is for black or yellow connector, of if they have both diagrams.


I connected the steering column ground pin 3 on connector X10230 to the black and brown wire on yellow connector, pin 19, which is ground.

I left ground for seatbelt switch (pin 6 on X10214 on the black connector) disconnected.

I left blue and black pin 8 wire on X10214 disconnected for now.

I cannot test the seatbelt at this point. I think the seatbelt light is the same as the airbag light. Because my airbag light is on, and there is no seatbelt light that's "on" on the dashboard, even with seatbelt unfastened.

I cannot erase the seatbelt light at this point, because my passenger seat is out.
Thankfully I got my passenger seat from a different car that uses the black connector, so I won't have to do through this again! Just need to clean and re-dye the seat before putting it in.

At this point steering wheel adjustment works in all directions, left, right, up down, memory function for it works, memory for the seat works, all motors work and heat works.

[TiagE39]

Bmwe39528i1998 - I think my original analysis for the function of the BL/SW wrong. Look at the TIS diagram for X778, which is the connector on the seat to the seatbelt switch itself. The BL/SW wire isn't energized to 12V, instead it's grounded. The switch function is also reverse of what you would expect - BL/SW is grounded when the buckle isn't in.

So if that wire is left unconnected, then no surprise that your seatbelt light would never be on.

I'll have to revise my original theory though, connecting BL/SW to BL/VI probably won't do anything useful then.

Did you swap tensioner/latch units so your later style seat has the early type tensioner with the 4 wire latch switch connector (X778)?