M10T in 6 weeks on a budget

[captain awesome]

Did you end up liking the universal camber plates? Trying to put a set together for a budget build and those look decent.

[Retoropak]

Did you end up liking the universal camber plates? Trying to put a set together for a budget build and those look decent.

I put maybe 500 miles on it since i finished suspension. To be honest its just a camber plate nothing special. My friend uses exactly the same set in his volvo 242 for the past 2 years and the bearing is still holding up.


In regards to the collars that hold the sleeves. They were made for the volvo tubes. I am no sure were to get them tho i got them from my buddy.

I guess schedule 40 or schedule 80 pipe would be good enough for the collars.






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[Retoropak]

So it looks like the stock transmissions dont like 18-20psi of boost.

It have a hard time getting into gear. Make some weird rattling noises and when you turn wheels on neutral you could feel some resistance/grinding/ busted bearing kind off feeling.




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[autox320]

What trans are you running? 2 piece 83 or the 3 piece 80-82?

[Retoropak]

What trans are you running? 2 piece 83 or the 3 piece 80-82?

2piece 83.

I think i either busted the 1-2 shift fork or input shaft bearing or both.

For past couple weeks it would make a really nice noises when releasing clutch after 3-2 downshift. Sounded similar to dragging a brick over rough concrete. (Input shaft bearings?)

I might take it out this weekend and open it up to see what happened.


I think that i will ditch the m10/g245 and start colecting parts for the volvo whiteblock/g265 swap. Or maybe m42/zf320. We shall see in the next couple of months.








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[autox320]

2piece 83 is the weakest trans and not surprised it's a toast. I've destroyed one with a low output 1.8 The 3 piece is more stout being steel forks and beefier bearings. Definitely E36 trans for that kinda power, but I believe the 3piece would handle what you got now.

[Retoropak]

2piece 83 is the weakest trans and not surprised it's a toast. I've destroyed one with a low output 1.8 The 3 piece is more stout being steel forks and beefier bearings. Definitely E36 trans for that kinda power, but I believe the 3piece would handle what you got now.

I am torn between couple options.

I thought about building m10, 2.1, oringed block cams etc etc. pump it to 35-40psi and use it with getrag 265.

Second option will be m42/m47 stroker with zf trans and probably 10psi less than m10 for the same power

Third is the volvo 5 cylinder with eithe volvo m90 or getrag265.


It will also receive a proper medium case swap. And possibly e36 fron suspension swap




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[EauRouge2002]

Only speaking for myself of course but I can tell you that the e36 front suspension swap can get complicated pretty quickly. I opted to adapt the e36 front subframe to the e21. This required building adapters that the e36 front subframe bolts to and then building a jig that places the adapters in the right spot on each side of the frame rails. Having access to a machine shop and knowing my way around the shop made this all possible.

This is the jig I built along with the adapters bolted to it.
IMG_1114.jpg

Here's a pic of the subframe installed with the e36 subframe adapters welded in place.
IMG_0989.jpg

One of the benefits of all this is if like me, you want e36 M3 spindles/brakes/LCA's/power steering rack, you can have all of that.
IMG_0987.jpg

It's no easy task and there are a lot more problems to solve along the way. I've been at it on and off for a few years and only now does it seem like I'll actually get it all done successfully. I'll be interested to see how you tackle this if this is the route you take. Best of luck.

[m60b30530i]

Interested to see a motor bolted in Rouge2002. The nice part is no need to find a e34 pan for a m50 swap

[Retoropak]

A little update.

Second gear bearing disintegrated and a collar that holds 3rd gear bearing shattered.







Anybody knows exact dimensions for the getrag 260? I found one from the m30. It will bolt up to m10 no problem it just the driveshaft length might have to be adjusted.




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[autox320]

A little update.

Second gear bearing disintegrated and a collar that holds 3rd gear bearing shattered.







Anybody knows exact dimensions for the getrag 260? I found one from the m30. It will bolt up to m10 no problem it just the driveshaft length might have to be adjusted.




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Not sure on tunnel clearance with the 260, but probably nothing a dead blow hammer can't fix. Make up a trans mount and shorten the front section of driveshaft. I have the 260 on my list if can't find a spare 245 for a reasonable price. Every now and then I browse. On my only 3piece trans. Sometimes seems noisy.

[Retoropak]

Not sure on tunnel clearance with the 260, but probably nothing a dead blow hammer can't fix. Make up a trans mount and shorten the front section of driveshaft. I have the 260 on my list if can't find a spare 245 for a reasonable price. Every now and then I browse. On my only 3piece trans. Sometimes seems noisy.

I know that my g240 is 19.1875-19.250 long measured from the belhousing face to the face of the output flange.

Also 245 is a bit longer than 240. You
might be able to reuse your driveshaft.


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[Arthuring]

Great work!
How did you solve your issue with the wastegate?
Did you modified the size of it or your manifold to let more gas acces to it?

Good luck with your gearbox.
Arthur

[Retoropak]

Great work!
How did you solve your issue with the wastegate?
Did you modified the size of it or your manifold to let more gas acces to it?

Good luck with your gearbox.
Arthur

I moved the wg to the exhaust housing.
But i think that one of the contributing factors was something wrong with my cam timing. I believe it might be off by couple degrees.






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[Retoropak]

Finally i am getting ready to get Helmut to the next level.

I picked up a 2.0 yesterday.



Now it is time to collect parts for the new build.

Forged bottom, 1.8 head, steel rockers 8000rpm, 30 psi of boost. I will try to max out my current turbo. It should flow 400-450whp.

I will most likely keep Ms2 setup. However if budget allows i will upgrade to ecumaster unit.

Drivetrain wise i will upgrade to g260/6 and will see how long the stock small case will hold. If it pops i am ready to upgrade to medium case setup.


Piston wise i found so far
JEs from TEP
CP from VAC
IE brand from IE

I will be shooting for 9:1 compression and 144 rods.

Any recommendation on the piston brand? All of the above are similarly priced.

I will most likely run some Chinese brand rods . I’ve seen cxracing rods taken to 500whp and more on volvo whiteblocks without any issues.




Thanks



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[Retoropak]

So the whole m10t setup i now gone.

I am getting ready for 8 extra valves and more power.

I will be using m42 this time with some forged guts and will try to get as close to 2.0 as i can.


I plan to utilize a small efr turbo for super fast spool and awesome transient response.

I have my kind set on maxx ecu race standalone. Couple of my friends are using it on their volvos with very good results. I am also more or less familiar with this ecu.


Shifting will be done through the proven zf320.

I also have medium case swap (e28 subframe) i just need to match the front.

Progress might be slow due to time and budget limitations. Projected completion is 2021-2022.


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[m60b30530i]

Nice !

[autox320]

So the whole m10t setup i now gone.

I am getting ready for 8 extra valves and more power.

I will be using m42 this time with some forged guts and will try to get as close to 2.0 as i can.


I plan to utilize a small efr turbo for super fast spool and awesome transient response.

I have my kind set on maxx ecu race standalone. Couple of my friends are using it on their volvos with very good results. I am also more or less familiar with this ecu.


Shifting will be done through the proven zf320.

I also have medium case swap (e28 subframe) i just need to match the front.

Progress might be slow due to time and budget limitations. Projected completion is 2021-2022.


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Not sure if he o-ring'd the block, but if not looked him up I'd ping Rob Henretta (m42club). I'm sure he's on facebook etc. He went down this road with lots of trial and tribulation. Early day's he was the one selling the COP kits as easy plug n play S50 coils adapt to the engine (have them on my 2 M42 cars).

One thing I do remember about the M42 is the timing cover/guide swap to the later style without the idle gear. I've not done it knock on wood my two cars have the OE idle and chain setup. They say a fail point is the idle gear where the bolt that holds it breaks away from the chain case. On one car i've filled the backside of that area with JB weld. So far neither of my cars have had issues but they are near stock form. I did replace all my timing components couple years ago since the motor has about 250,000 miles on it. Really like my M42 cars for daily drivers. Kinda the older honda of BMW.

[Retoropak]

Not sure if he o-ring'd the block, but if not looked him up I'd ping Rob Henretta (m42club).

Plan is to use the mls for now. I am going for 86mm bore and there will be i believe 6mm left between the holes. Not sure if its enough for o-ring grooves.

I will use m5x coils. I got bunch of em lying around.

One thing I do remember about the M42 is the timing cover/guide swap to the later style without the idle gear.

Yes i read about it. I will use m44 timing cases with the slider setup. The benefit is the larger (10mm vs 8mm) oil pump. The downside is that i will need to fabricate crank position sensor bracket.


Whats your opinion on 360 degree oil grooves on the main bearings?
I found two stories about rod bearing failing with 8k rpm limiter.
I know Metric Mechanic uses m50/m52 shells to get the 360 degree oil groove.

With such small displacement and a turbo i would like to extend the powerband if possible and i guess 8k rpm would be reasonable.


One last thing is i will try to vert mount it.

We will see how much room will be left for the oil pan. Head has symetrical drain holes so oil accumulation should bot be a problem.

I will need to modify the shifter but other than that it should be pretty straightforward.


Thanks



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[autox320]

Plan is to use the mls for now. I am going for 86mm bore and there will be i believe 6mm left between the holes. Not sure if its enough for o-ring grooves.

I will use m5x coils. I got bunch of em lying around.







Yes i read about it. I will use m44 timing cases with the slider setup. The benefit is the larger (10mm vs 8mm) oil pump. The downside is that i will need to fabricate crank position sensor bracket.


Whats your opinion on 360 degree oil grooves on the main bearings?
I found two stories about rod bearing failing with 8k rpm limiter.
I know Metric Mechanic uses m50/m52 shells to get the 360 degree oil groove.

With such small displacement and a turbo i would like to extend the powerband if possible and i guess 8k rpm would be reasonable.


One last thing is i will try to vert mount it.

We will see how much room will be left for the oil pan. Head has symetrical drain holes so oil accumulation should bot be a problem.

I will need to modify the shifter but other than that it should be pretty straightforward.


Thanks



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Thought all these engines use grooved main bearings. You mean rod bearings? Nah no grooves or holes needed there IMO look at the S or M3/5/6 engines. Just enough bearing to support the load ie wider and larger than S54 grenade as a bad example of rod bearing sizing

Rods and bearings on the M42 are on the small side. I'd definitely opt for aftermarket for better chance of survival.

Another is top end; maybe if pushing the revs look at solid tappet replacements. Otherwise use the VW ones (050109309H) they are much lighter than BMW's.

Could go all out and use the diesel crankshaft from the M47 and make a 2.2 lil monster
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-M47-eng...5.c10#viTabs_0

[Retoropak]

Thought all these engines use grooved main bearings. You mean rod bearings? Nah no grooves or holes needed there IMO look at the S or M3/5/6 engines. Just enough bearing to support the load ie wider and larger than S54 grenade as a bad example of rod bearing sizing

Rods and bearings on the M42 are on the small side. I'd definitely opt for aftermarket for better chance of survival.

Another is top end; maybe if pushing the revs look at solid tappet replacements. Otherwise use the VW ones (050109309H) they are much lighter than BMW's.

Could go all out and use the diesel crankshaft from the M47 and make a 2.2 lil monster
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-M47-eng...5.c10#viTabs_0

I meant the main bearings. Only top half is grooved meaning rods don’t get oil for half of the crank revolution which apparently causes some oil starvation to the rod bearings at high rpms. You are correct rod bearings are grooveless.
I am going with aftermarkets for sure. I will use m5x ones for the 360 thrust bearing and 360 degree oil grooves.

The crank you posted wont work. Its from the newer m47n (90mm). I believe it has different nose that cannot be modified.

I am still thinking about stroking it. I found a proper crank for 400 shipped. It just need a slight keyway modification to install timing sprocket. I also found some wiseco stroker piston specs.


I might go all out and do the cat cams solid lifter turbo cams. Almost no overlap and nicer lift. Should be good to 8-8.5krpm

http://www.catcams.com/products/cams...nguage=english

[autox320]

I meant the main bearings. Only top half is grooved meaning rods don’t get oil for half of the crank revolution which apparently causes some oil starvation to the rod bearings at high rpms. You are correct rod bearings are grooveless.
I am going with aftermarkets for sure. I will use m5x ones for the 360 thrust bearing and 360 degree oil grooves.

The crank you posted wont work. Its from the newer m47n (90mm). I believe it has different nose that cannot be modified.

I am still thinking about stroking it. I found a proper crank for 400 shipped. It just need a slight keyway modification to install timing sprocket. I also found some wiseco stroker piston specs.


I might go all out and do the cat cams solid lifter turbo cams. Almost no overlap and nicer lift. Should be good to 8-8.5krpm

http://www.catcams.com/products/cams...nguage=english

Cams look good. I'd ask about solid lifters if pushing over 7k rpm. Don't believe the hydraulic ones will stay pumped up.

My cars have MarkD chips and VW lifters with stock cams. Regularly redline to 7k, but they can get noisy after hard runs just like a M50/S5X motor. The euro M cars had solid lifters to push 8k regularly without worry of bleed off which steals power at high revs(valve not opening max).

The torque bump of the stroker setup makes more power everywhere but you know that already. Even using a M44 crank I've seen the poor man stroker still do really well.

Forgot to ask but I'd think your using a early M42 head not the later one with rockers. I honestly wasn't aware of the rocker head style until joined the M42club but what a waste that is. I've only seen the rocker heads mainly in E36ti etc.

[Retoropak]

Rocker heads are on m44 used on e36 1996 and up.

There are two different m42s early used on e30s and early e36 up to 1993. They have timing sprocket and 7mm valve stems.
The late m42 (1993.5-1995.5 if i am not mistaken) uses slider instead of the sprocket and has 6mm valve stems.
I read somewhere that early m42 has a bit mire aggressive intake cam.


The cat cam that i linked requires solid lifters.

90mm m47 crank( one with crank position tone ring on the flywheel side of the crank) has the nose that is too short. You need to extend it to use m42 timing sprocket and crank pulley.

The early e46 and e39 m47 crank which is 88mm has the correct length nose.
It still requires slight modification. I believe the diameter of the stout is 0.6mm to large and it needs extra keyway machined for the crank pulley.




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[Retoropak]

I am going to close this thread and open a new one because the title doesn't apply any more.
I will link this thread in a new one.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...2#post30378672

[Deniz]

Eaurouge2002,
Im trying to build same thing like u did it with e36 front subframe / suspension, would u please give me measurements u have / made for it?
Also how much behind did you put the subframe from original bolts?
Thank u in advance.