Nomex Suit Overkill for Non-racing Events?

[Dubbedown]

Took basically a year off (had my first kid) but looking to fully get back into swing of things and even considering making the jump from DE to TT. I run a street legal Z4 coupe with fixed back seats, welded roll bar, 6 points, and HANS. Till now I felt this was sufficiently safe for advanced DE and open track days. But in this past year I've been rethinking safety and wondering if I should invest in a nomex race suit.


I've done my research on ratings & certifications but I'm trying to figure out what are the chances of a non-race car catching fire and am I willing to take that chance? Is it any more/less than a rollover (considering I wasn't willing to risk that)? Would wearing nomex undergarments head to toe under regular clothes be a good compromise? What's everyone's thoughts on this?


Aside from the existing safety equipment listed above, car has stock interior. No gutting, no relocated fuel lines, etc. But that also means no kill switch nor suppression system.

[Bimmerman535i]

Took basically a year off (had my first kid) but looking to fully get back into swing of things and even considering making the jump from DE to TT. I run a street legal Z4 coupe with fixed back seats, welded roll bar, 6 points, and HANS. Till now I felt this was sufficiently safe for advanced DE and open track days. But in this past year I've been rethinking safety and wondering if I should invest in a nomex race suit.


I've done my research on ratings & certifications but I'm trying to figure out what are the chances of a non-race car catching fire and am I willing to take that chance? Is it any more/less than a rollover (considering I wasn't willing to risk that)? Would wearing nomex undergarments head to toe under regular clothes be a good compromise? What's everyone's thoughts on this?


Aside from the existing safety equipment listed above, car has stock interior. No gutting, no relocated fuel lines, etc. But that also means no kill switch nor suppression system.

More safer is always better than less safer, but to be honest wearing a suit during a general track day is a PITA. Will the added peace of mind help you eke out that extra tenth or two in a TT setting? Will the (inevitable) snide comments from others at the HPDE bother you?

I was under the impression you needed a suit for TT, but could be wrong. I have a suit but am very lazy about wearing it when not doing Lemons. I probably should wear it more often.

I would get a nice multilayer suit so that you don't have to wear the nomex long underwear. Personally I would not wear the undies under regular clothes without a suit, as the fire resistance isn't remotely the same as a full suit.

[Dubbedown]

Thanks for the feedback. On your first point I wouldn't push myself any harder just because of the suit. While pushing myself that extra tenth surely increases the risk factor, I would think wrecking in general could happen just as easily for reasons beyond my control (e.g. fluid on track).

I guess I'm wondering what the most probable causes for fire are and if they apply to a stock-ish car or are they really only applicable to race cars with fuel cells and so on.

[darbyfam]

You don't need a suit for NASA TT.

The most probable case for fire is going to be a contact with another vehicle or a fixed object (wall). For a track day or HPDE, I have never seen a fire.

[99M3Riverside]

IMO, more safety is better. I saw at a recent AutoX a car catch fire. It was quickly extinguished but you never know. I was driving my M3 when an oil line gave out and sprayed oil all over my engine, I was lucky it didn't ignite. If a fire breaks out at speed, I am sure you would be glad to have a few extra seconds to slow the car and exit the vehicle. Maybe it is time to install a fire suppression system.

[fifth]

A fire burns at the same tempature durning an HPDE session as a race... Get a suit

[bionicbelly]

If you have a cage, belts, and a fixed back seat, I would wear one. It takes longer to get out of a car that has all of those things, in my experience. As far as what causes cars to catch on fire, lots of things, stock-ish or no. It can happen. It is not pleasant when it does.

[TheJuggernaut]

It's a subject I'm always conflicted about and really the only reason I don't wear full gear at lapping days in street cars is laziness and stigma. First one being self explanatory, and the second being knowing that I'm going to be looked at as some Senna-wanna-be, getting all fuhraze at an HPDE championship. Another reason is that in my competition car, everything is high pressure and was all made by me so I have less faith in it than an OEM that went through the full rigor of safety testing. But the reality is that my teflon braided fuel hose could take a nuclear explosion and not rupture, and I have a full fire suppression system while the stock thin wall steel pipe and rubber fuel hoses are not going to hold up in a violent crash.

Another possible point of view is that while it's true that fire doesn't care if you're lapping or competing, in theory you shouldn't be driving as hard at an HPDE as competing, and if competing in TT there should not be as much risk as in wheel-to-wheel. But the reality is that once the red mist descends, your brain stops caring where you are and you find yourself going for it.

So in my opinion, if you can get past the stigma of appearing to take yourself too seriously, wear everything you've got. Nothing happens until it does. I forget who said it but paraphrasing, I once read someone say that if Murphy's law says that wearing a thousand dollar fire suit means I will never be in a fire, then I look at it as very cheap prevention.

[DocWyte]

Fire rarely happens in HPDE but at the same time, Fire doesn't know its only an HPDE. You can never get hurt by doing more safety. If you're worried about what other people will think, don't worry about them.

Another choice is to only wear the suit when you're in your car, no need to wear it all day long. They're hot!

[MPWRCPE]

I see guys wearing suits in street cars with no cage, fixed back seats, harnesses etc.

I'm getting more and more nervous the faster I get/go while NOT having a cage/roll bar, fixed back seats and harnesses.

Anything can happen in a street or full competition car. I've had my oil cooler let go twice (after supposedly being repaired the 1st time), very nearly sending me off track the second time (oily front right tire), and all due to poor welding on the aluminum cooler.

I have seen 2 Z06 Corvettes burn to the ground during HPDE's, so the possibility is there.

It's all about what you're comfortable with mentally.

[Dubbedown]

Fire rarely happens in HPDE but at the same time, Fire doesn't know its only an HPDE. You can never get hurt by doing more safety. If you're worried about what other people will think, don't worry about them.

Another choice is to only wear the suit when you're in your car, no need to wear it all day long. They're hot!

Yea not worried what others say. And if I did buy, that's exactly what I would do -- take off in between sessions.

[TXBDan]

I got one for this year. Mostly for hot days so i can wear light shorts/tshirt and just throw the suit on for the session. I'd say most people in my club wear them, but its a TT oriented club so most people have fairly prepared cars. Suits are becoming more and more common i think. Hans devices are really common now days which is good as well.

[dmw16]

I'll confess the disclaimer to start with...I've gone out without my nomex on even when I have it with me. I do like driving in jeans and a t-shirt.

But the vast majority of the time if I'm in the car I'm in my nomex. Sure a fire is much less likely in a DE than in a race it's just as damaging/deadly regardless. I'd feel really stupid if I had a fire and my suit was sitting in my truck.

If you're at the point of doing competitive driving (TT or wheel to wheel) and you've gone to the point of putting a cage in your car I'd buy a suit. You can get a perfectly functional one for $500 or so and a nice one for under $1000. I will say, the extra spend is worth it here as you get light fabrics and other nice little features in the more expensive suits. From the ones I've tried $800-$1200 seems to be the sweet spot in terms of value.

[Brake_L8]

If you're considering TT and in a faster DE group as it is, I'd go ahead and get one. As others have said, fire doesn't know or care what type of event it's a part of. I have seen a few DE and TT fires, they are rare but can happen.

It is not required until you get into W2W but if you have the money to do so, more safety is more better. Plus, it's easy to throw on as-needed during warmer events (wear t-shirt and gym shorts otherwise) so you're not always roasting in jeans... and they are comfy/warm as hell in the colder months.

[jimmypet]

If you are unfortunate enough to know someone who has been burned it makes you worry a lot less about what people think about suits and wear them if you have one.
I have two friends with significant scar tissue who "were" wearing suits, can't imagine the outcome if they were not wearing suits (you very well know them too they are Northeast fixtures).

I wear mine pretty much whenever I'm in my car on track because as people have said, fire doesn't know or care if you are racing.

Sure its nice and comfortable to bomb around the track in shorts and a T shirt if your group allows, but I guess its like wearing a helmet on a street bike. How lucky do you feel.

You can also buy a fairly inexpensive, fairly innocuous 2 piece suit from most major (and minor) mfgs which (a) will do the job should something bad ever happen and (b) you just take the jacket off when your session is over and as long as you don't buy Red with white stripes,,, you look like a guy in blue or black pants and a T shirt.
That was my first suit when I started getting up in run groups, then started SCCA Solo 1 which required a suit I bought a 2 piece Simpson which I used for quite a few years.
You can buy (or order) them pretty plain. I think that offers a safe midway solution until you decide you are going racing and get an FIA one piece suit.

EDIT: I missed a part of your post, about the Nomex undergarments under regular clothes. I wouldn't really bother with that. If you really did not want to bother with a suit or make that leap just yet, I would buy a set of Nomex work clothes (look like Dickies only made from Nomex, welders use them, some industries require fire retardant clothing).
They are inexpensive and just as comfortable as normal clothes.
I wear that combined with Nomex underwear sometimes when I instruct if the club has a problem with instructors wearing suits (which goes back to the stupid stigma of suits at DEs posted above).

What you lose out on in that situation is the Thermal Protection (escape time) that a real multi layer suit provides (in addition to not igniting), all you gain in with that option is your clothing will not also ignite on you like cotton or polyester.

[Emre]

Here's my thought process. If we're talking about a relatively new car that's essentially stock, I don't think the risk of fire is significant. If we're talking about an older car (especially one that's been modified), I think the risk starts to rise. Have no data to support this; just my intuition.

I personally wouldn't worry about Nomex if I'm taking my steet car (on street tires) out for a couple of laps just to show my student the line at maybe 7/10ths. Hell, I'd probably have my a/c running

[emoore924]

I've personally seen two pretty significant fire events at DE's.

First one was at Pocono where a 911 came out of the infield, overcorrected turning onto the main straight and hammered the inside wall pretty hard. I was in the pits, heard the skid and as I looked up I could see the car spinning in the air *above* the pit wall height. Ruptured the oil cooler and lit up the whole front of the car. Fortunately the instructor was ok, the student was able to get out of the car on her own but she spent the night in the hospital. I blew a whole halon bottle into the car looking for the driver to make sure she was out (through the open passenger door, I couldn't see the driver's seat from the flames). I could see she was out, which was really good but it should be noted that the halon did not come close to putting the car out and neither did the second bottle someone else sprayed as well...

I went home after that weekend and on Monday I bought the best 3-layer suit I could find.

The other time was when I was at a DE in NJ. I went too hot into 4 and spun over the curb going pretty good. Went off into the grass (dirt?) and the car stalled. No harm no foul. As I tried to restart I could see all the people in the grandstand start yelling and waving and realized I had a pretty good fire going under the car. As it turned out, I had cracked the collector and when I started cranking, the webers started dumping raw fuel into the red-hot (now broken) header and it started spewing flames all over the underside of the car. I got out pretty quickly, they stopped the event and rolled fire rescue. Toasted the car a bit but I was ok.

So, here's my point. Problems can happen to anyone, and fast. And the consequences are significant. So do what you want but a $250 nomex suit seems like cheap insurance to me.

[Emre]

I've also seen one big fire in an HPDE group with the PBOC at Sebring. There was a heavily modified 993 Turbo with full carbon fiber widebody kit. He blew past me entering the hairpin, then promptly burst into flames. Turns out one of his fuel lines let go and dumped fuel all over the red-hot engine bay and exhaust.

So, it can happen. But not as likely with a newish street car in stock form driven with care.

[bionicbelly]

Another thing to think of, is if someone ELSE catches on fire. If you carry a fire extinguisher, and want to help them, you would be much safer (and more effective) if you were wearing a suit.

[robbo mcs]

I race / rally at a national level where full clothing is required, suits, nomex underwear, balaclava, gloves, socks, boots etc. So I obviously have the stuff. When I go to a club day or a HPDE where it is not required I still wear it. Why not? Doesn't cost me anything, and I sure would look stupid if I got burnt badly. BTW I have seen several nasty fires at club days. Also I have had a minor fire in my car once.

Slightly related topic, I highly recommend wearing a nomex balaclava under your helmet at all times. Keeps the helmet much cleaner and in better condition.

[NotoriousJJE]

I can't think of a single group I run with in Florida that people would snide at or make comments because you are wearing a suit.

Plenty of people do and more power to them. What we are doing is serious and it is risky. Can never be too safe. Specially if you are at or near the limit.

[Emre]

I can't think of a single group I run with in Florida that people would snide at or make comments because you are wearing a suit.

The only people I've seen who get made fun of for having safety equipment are the ricer types. Intermediate driver with a street car on $8000 wheels, slammed on junk coilovers, R-comps, and no safety equipment who shows up dressed like the Stig. The kind of guy who gets lunch off-site in full Alpinestars regalia (he probably wears it to work on Monday) and doesn't take the numbers off his car after the event is over.

In that case, the race suit feels more like play-acting than a legitimate safety choice.

[jrkoupe]

some great convo here....


this hobby has changed so much over the years.......


I started like 37 yrs ago in a 72 02 w/ 100 hp.........wow....

[Emre]

I started in the late '90s with a totally stock E30 318is. Stock suspension, stock pads, 14" all-season tires. The works! Drove the car that way for several seasons.

[jrkoupe]

The only people I've seen who get made fun of for having safety equipment are the ricer types. Intermediate driver with a street car on $8000 wheels, slammed on junk coilovers, R-comps, and no safety equipment who shows up dressed like the Stig. The kind of guy who gets lunch off-site in full Alpinestars regalia (he probably wears it to work on Monday) and doesn't take the numbers off his car after the event is over.

In that case, the race suit feels more like play-acting than a legitimate safety choice.

a bit OT...but I think u all will enjoy....

speaking of ricer/racer types


I had a student w/ an e92 s/c'd m3..over 600 hp.........had rear R tires and all season fronts........for the extra "traction" he states....

he wanted to go 14o on main straight.....I wouldnt let him......he couldnt negotiate the upcoming turn!...gave him a 115 limit..he was soo pissed....head instrctr backed me up