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Thread: 90 E32 750 IL Engine Tap

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Richmond, Virginia
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    40
    My Cars
    1990 750IL
    Thanks again guys. Ive started the process today. taking pics as i go. Oh my god my injectors! Cruddiest thing Ive ever seen! I can't wait to clean it all up and back together again! Im gonna try to re use the intake gaskets. Im really hoping one of the banjo bolts are loose one in the oil rails. We shall see...

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Green Bay, WI
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    1,332
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    1992 750il / 1991 560 SE
    No! Dont hope that. If thats the case, then your cam shaft is already worn and will need replacement. Getting oil to it now will do little.
    ______________________________
    1992 750iL

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
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    40
    My Cars
    1990 750IL
    Oh No! The first and last (closest to the fire wall and right under the oil cap), banjo bolts were loose on the right bank! The one closest to the fire wall was finger loose, and the first one at the front of the engine was easy to loose with a socket in my hand, no wrench. All others were super tight. I didn't break them free. Is there a tension these should all be?

    The cam shows nothing out of the ordinary, all the lobes look evenly "worn". Nothing looks like it been burnt. All the rocker arms lifters and valve springs feel tight with no play any where. I haven't removed any of these for further inspection however.

    Other related issues:
    As I was removing the wiring harness, the 4 plugs under the timing chains, are they hard to find? the female side to the wiring harness is fine. The male inserts fell apart as I removed them. Noticed that one of them went to the #6 plug wire.

    Tomorrow i will order the rebuild kit for the injectors. Also gonna find a shop to clean out the intake manifolds.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Japan
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    My Cars
    11/88 E32 750iL+98 E36M3
    No worries, get from Gale, known here as TheStigg these Cross-drilled Oil Spray Bar Banjo Bolts http://www.nmia.com/~dgnrg/for_sale.htm and secure them, also shown on my website under fixes >>engine>>>top end overhaul.
    Other option, make some safety washers like this
    http://s273.photobucket.com/user/kib...l?sort=3&o=144
    http://s273.photobucket.com/user/kib...l?sort=3&o=145
    http://s273.photobucket.com/user/kib...l?sort=3&o=146
    http://s273.photobucket.com/user/kib...l?sort=3&o=147
    Do not overtighten, banjo bolts crack very easy. Bentley manual page 116-9 says oil sprayer bar to cylinder head (new hollow bolt and washers) 11 to 13 Nm = 8 to 10 ft-lb.

    which 4 plugs under the timing chain? Between the cylinders for the donuts and CPS? https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ight=cps+donut
    The female plugs are part of the engine wiring and not available as single extra part, the male part going to #6 plug wire is part of the cylinder identiification sensor/donut and not available as single item. Only cpl. new donut, but the you have the problem to get the donut on the wire without destroying the plug connection.
    One possibility at your own risk http://bmwe32.masscom.net/sean750/Re...ireSet_V12.htm
    Many have failed and bought from me ignition wires for the wires with the donuts, the ignition wires I sell have woodscrew type connectors https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...and-M73-engine
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    40
    My Cars
    1990 750IL
    Hey guys just an update!. Thanks Shogun, i figured out the plugs were for crank position sensors. No worries I have 2 new ones on the way. Finally got the intake manifolds back from the machine shop. I had them super cleaned out. In the mean time i sanded and painted the valve covers. I pulled out cleaned and polished the oil rail. made sure all the holes were clear. I cleaned the banjo bolts and applied new thread lock.
    I also replaced the alternator cable with #2 welding wire. the condition of the old wire was probably the cause of my alternator problems last year! haha.
    Today i painted the intake manifolds and installed the new injectors to the fuel rails. i decided to go with the 4 pin hole injectors as well. the cheapest price i could find to clean and rebuild my injectors were $17.99. the new ones were $16.66 a piece. Ive kept my original injectors in the box the new ones came in. Tomorrow I go get some new fuel hose and begin re-assembly.
    However a couple of questions:
    Would any of you guys know where to find those rubber mounts that bolt onto the valve cover and those brackets that hold the alternator wire tube?
    Mine fell apart! Its 2 nuts with a piece of rubber between them.
    Is there anything I need to install the new injectors? The old ones were so hard to get out. I used some vaseline on the new injector o-rings to install them to the fuel rail. Is that ok? they seem so loose compared to the old ones coming out. It made me nervous so I reinstalled and old original injector and it felt as loose as the new, so Im hoping this is normal.
    I have pice on my phone will post soon!
    IMG_4592.JPG
    IMG_4599.JPG
    IMG_4628.JPG
    IMG_4629.JPG
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Sorvino; 03-08-2017 at 03:47 PM.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Japan
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    54,654
    My Cars
    11/88 E32 750iL+98 E36M3
    "I used some vaseline on the new injector o-rings to install them to the fuel rail. Is that ok?" yes, maybe it is a bit lose because you did not tighten the fuel rails. see my website under fixes engine top end overhaul.
    rubber mountings in that area are
    18 Rubber Mounting 4 64536919520
    14 BRACKET FRONT ZYL.1-6 1 11611720120
    15 BRACKET REAR ZYL.1-6 1 11611720119
    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4607
    08 Rubber Mounting 4 11611725167 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4608
    23 Rubber Mounting 1 64536919520 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=13_1387
    15 Rubber Mounting 2 09/1991 11421436982 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_0552
    13 Vibration damper 3 64111390940 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=64_0146
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
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    40
    My Cars
    1990 750IL
    Well Alright! The day has come! Everything back in the car. Took all day as i replaced fuel lines as I went along. It looks amazing. Re attached the battery cable under the seat and turn the car on to get the fuel pumps to fill the fuel rails. Mind you Im do not expect this to just fire up and idle normal! haha. Although one may dream... I turned it over and it ran rough for about 30 seconds and died. The sun went down so I just left it for today to see what symptoms it has. Today She will start right up and idle rough for about 5 seconds before shutting off. The SUPER GOOD NEWS is the tapping sound is gone!!!! So thats great! The rough idle thing almost seems like its out of time or something. Ive got it to run long enough to try to give it some gas and it backfires or kinda coughs and shuts down. Also get an oil pressure sensor message on the dash however the only thing i did in that area was replace the cable from the alternator to the battery post. I also wonder if this is a vacuum issue would it run at all? Could I have hooked something up wrong? hmmm...
    IMG_4634.JPG
    IMG_4635.JPG
    IMG_4640.JPG
    IMG_4642.JPG
    Last edited by Sorvino; 03-08-2017 at 03:50 PM.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Japan
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    My Cars
    11/88 E32 750iL+98 E36M3
    Could it be oil level instead of oil pressure warning? Because next to the B+ pole is the plug with 3 pins for oil level sensor and one wire of that plug is for alternator exiter signal, see my website under fixes>>electrical power>>fixing charging cable between alternator and distribution point, there is also a pic of the plug and the wire colors shown.
    Last edited by shogun; 03-09-2017 at 05:33 PM.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
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    40
    My Cars
    1990 750IL
    Well alright! I reset the computer and charged up the battery and BAM! it started right up! Ive been driving it around the past day and its running great! However, THE TAPPING IS BACK... I must have some bad lifters or Im also starting to wonder about my oil pump. It sounds like its coming from the center section of the valves on BOTH banks / sides as before. Could I have something clogged up? When I took the banjo bolts out, I did notice the ones that were loose had no oil in the hole they came out of like the other banjo bolts that were tight. Could there be a way of clogging that section of oil flow? Either way Im not giving up until this problem is solved.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Richmond, Virginia
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    My Cars
    1990 750IL
    Yesterday my new lifter set arrived! Should I keep these soaking in oil? They came in a bag with oil. I don't think i will have a chance to do this till next week. The Car is running fantastic aside from the tapping. I can't wait!!!

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Richmond, Virginia
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    1990 750IL
    ok just another update! Finally replaced the lifters! took some time as it was difficult to find the right tool to compress the springs. I ended up loosening the cams to slide out the rockers. I didn't really find any lifters that felt collapsed or anything. still i replaced them all. Got everything back together and the tap is definitely better than it was before yet its still there! its only been a couple of days and Ive only put as bout 10 miles on the car since getting her all back together. I changed the oi before re-start so clean new oil would lube the new lifters. when i replaced the oil filter i notices several small white looking flakes. i thought maybe a piece of the silver paint may have fallen in one of the oil holes on the head when i first opened them up. Or it could be a failed piston rod knocking around in there and those are ceramic shavings!! lets hope not. I can't imagine throwing a rod and having so much power. It really is running really good! I dare say even better with the new lifters! the quest continues....

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    82
    My Cars
    1990 735iL + 97 740i
    Seeing as how you've had the car for a while, I doubt it would be this, but I believe some tapping is normal, so maybe what you are hearing is normal tapping?

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    NYC & Long Island & So FL
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    '93 740il '84 633Csi
    Have you put a stethoscope on the oil pan under the oil pump? If you hear a lot of chain noise, it might be that the oil pump chain drive needs to be tightened. Not a likely event if you are not getting a low oil pressure light at idle.
    --Ken

  14. #39
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    Sep 2009
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    Richmond, Virginia
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    1990 750IL
    Quote Originally Posted by kusiobache View Post
    Seeing as how you've had the car for a while, I doubt it would be this, but I believe some tapping is normal, so maybe what you are hearing is normal tapping?
    Thanks Kusiobache for the response! I wonder as well. I have had this car a while and I can't think of owning any other really. I will tear down the engine to find this if i have to. I will take a video and post it today. --ALSO! I wonder the possibility of and exhaust leak. The sound seems louder on the right side. Before this tapping became noticeable i had to have the starter replaced at the shop. I never take my car to the shop but this time i had to leave out of town for work and needed it done before i returned. They mentioned taking the exhaust down to get to the starter. I went in to reinspect their work and i was bummed to see they didn't install the heat shield OR the electrical connection cover on the fire wall. Maybe they didn't install the exhaust properly. Long shot but heh.

  15. #40
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    Sep 2009
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    Richmond, Virginia
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    1990 750IL
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansouci View Post
    Have you put a stethoscope on the oil pan under the oil pump? If you hear a lot of chain noise, it might be that the oil pump chain drive needs to be tightened. Not a likely event if you are not getting a low oil pressure light at idle.
    --Ken
    Hey Ken,
    Thanks for your reply and YES that is my next coarse of action. I haven't looked into the possibility of dropping the lower oil pan yet. Im hoping it can be done without lifting the engine. I can at least check the oil pump stainer and check for any evidence of any major problems. I do get a oil level sensor warning on my obc occasionally. that could be another issue all together. When i first went into the heads and tightened the banjo bolts, i replace the alternator wire to the positive terminal. i think i may have broke the mall wire going back to the alternator and possibly have a shorty on the oil level sensor wire next to it. - another project all together! haha. I will post a video link today of the sound I hear. It seems to get louder after it warms up.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Richmond, Virginia
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    My Cars
    1990 750IL
    Guys I think I found the source of the tapping!!! After exhausting every effort just short of pulling the head all together, today, yes today I made a discovery... I pulled the lower oil pan. I found 2 bolts from what looks like some sort of plastic pipe connector from the upper oil pan. It was completely disconnected!!!! I found one of the studs in the screen. The other in the pan! I am so excited!!! I pulled the oil pump all together. I took it apart completely and all seems to be fine. Is there a rebuild kit for this? Are there any gaskets? I know I need some o rings for the pipes from the engine up top. This is great. I’m gonna clean it all up. I will keep you posted!!

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Japan
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    11/88 E32 750iL+98 E36M3
    good find, that plastic pipe goes from the upper oil pan to the lower oil pan/pump, here is a drawing on page 6 , and on page 28 description: the oil pan consists of 2 sections. An aluminium oil catching section and a deep, sandwich sheet metal oil sump. This suppresses noises radiated by the oil pump. An oil catching grid, a so-called oil head, is installed in the oil pan. Oil pressure on the unfiltered oil end is regulated by pressure from the filtered oil end. Pressure remains constant on the filtered oil end even with increasing filter contamination. http://bmwe32.masscom.net/ see under What's new: click : 13 Oct 2013 - M.Oswald: Re-located the v12 manual.
    there is more material under index M70/v12 tech info I 1mb M70/v12 tech info II 10mb

    The oil pump is an Eaton Rotary type of tandem design. The front segment is the primary pump which provides high pressure lubrication for all internal engine components. The rear segment operates as a scavenger pump insuring an adequate oil supply for the primary pump under all operating conditions. The scavenger pump draws oil from the rear of the crankcase via a snorkel tube and delivers the oil to the primary pump pickup. The engine oil pan is constructed of two sections. The upper section is cast aluminum and incorporates strengthening ribs at strategic attachment points. This feature creates a "unitized" engine and transmission assembly which reduces flex, vibration and noise. The oil pan sump cover, like the cylinder head covers, is constructed of laminated metal-fiber-metal material which acts as a sound barrier.

    There is probably no rebuild kit available, check here the drawings and part numbers with the VIN http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Richmond, Virginia
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    1990 750IL
    Thanks for the very helpful info Shogun! That manual and link are great! i am going to grab some o rings tomorrow and put it back together! I will post my results! Cheers!

  19. #44
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    Sep 2009
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    Richmond, Virginia
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    1990 750IL
    Everything back together and the tapping continues... IÂ’m gonna have to go back into the head. It seems to be coming from the middle of the passenger side... maybe a valve? Or valve guide? Are these parts available? Hmm...

  20. #45
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    Jan 2005
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    Japan
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    11/88 E32 750iL+98 E36M3
    intake valves are available, even in oversized dimensions http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_4615
    But cannot imagine that a valve sometimes makes noise and sometimes not.

    Some good pics here, language Spanish, you can translate with google
    SOLUCIONAR SONIDO A TAQUES EN BMW 750I E32 , Taqué nuevo frente a uno usado = new tappet vs used pics http://www.gti16.com/usr/coco/bmw_m7...70_taques.html
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  21. #46
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    Jun 2011
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    '93 740il '84 633Csi
    Well,
    Even though you haven't solved the tapping noise, fixing the oil pump will save the engine, allowing you to keep on figuring it out. Could you take some pix of your work as it would be helpful to many of us.
    --Ken

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Richmond, Virginia
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    1990 750IL
    IMG_2149.jpgthis pic above shows the pipe disconnected from the oil pump when i pulled the oil pan off.
    56151327085__1F24913A-C714-49DF-A8F9-47EAF492F1DD.JPG
    this is the oil pump out.
    56156776439__FA4E1920-893A-43D6-8781-3540FF546DB0.JPG
    disassembled and cleaned out.
    IMG_2157.jpg
    back together with the pipe re-attached!
    here is a video i shot today of the tap. its definitely louder around the 3rd / 4th cylinder. Ive gone in an replaced the lifters, and injectors, cleaned out the oil lines and didn't notice any loose valves. total PITA making a spring compressor... thats another story! haha. Could it be electrical? Before this tap, i had to have the starter replaced at the shop as I had no time because of work. could they have hooked it up wrong? Another symptom, my alternator isn't working properly. After reinstalling the oil pump my dash has lite up with the battery, ABS parking break lights. When i start it, I show 11.03 volts on the obc. When I rev it up to 3000 it kicks on and my meter goes to 13.43. I've never seen it charge higher, yet. Ive replaced the alternator twice last year as well as voltage regulators. When I replaced the lifters, I replaced the cable from the alternator down the tube to the battery connection box. i used 12 gauge welding wire that was small enough to fit but only just. hmmm.... could it be electrical?





    Quote Originally Posted by Sansouci View Post
    Well,
    Even though you haven't solved the tapping noise, fixing the oil pump will save the engine, allowing you to keep on figuring it out. Could you take some pix of your work as it would be helpful to many of us.
    --Ken

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Green Bay, WI
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    1992 750il / 1991 560 SE
    Sure sounds like a bad lifter. Or a very worn cam which is slapping. When you had it apart, did you make certain the cams lobes (all of them) where good? Did you verify all the springs, inner and outer, where good?
    ______________________________
    1992 750iL

  24. #49
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    Sep 2009
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    Richmond, Virginia
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    1990 750IL
    The cam didn’t show any signs of damage or wear. All the springs seemed tight. I tried to make a spring compressor but it fell apart after the 4th use so I loosened the cam so I could get the lifters out.
    I also checked the rocker arms. All seemed good.
    I’m gonna see about this spring compressor from Napa that I’ve read works really good for this engine and go back in this week. So weird because it’s running so good. I took it out this past weekend on a drive and it was great. I will post pics of the cam when I tear it down. Obviously I am missing something! Haha

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    11/88 E32 750iL+98 E36M3
    A bit far reached, but a test costs nothing: check the ignition wires and spark plug boots and make the old backyard style arcing test. Dark garage, water/moisture spray bottle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y113db62w9E
    I remember we once had such a case, similar noise, getting sparking or arcing between the boot of the spark plug to the engine. We could see the sparking and heard it ticking.

    https://itstillruns.com/test-misfire...r-7947020.html
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

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