800WHP Goal: 93&Meth or E85

[cragg56]

I daily an e85 m3 with only 1 station in my area.. its not a huge deal. You just have to plan ahead at a 1/4 tank...


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My problem is I'd like to pull into any Shell and pump some gas. Not have to worry about where my next fill up will be.

Also, I really despise braided AN PTFE hose

[vollosso]

I think the ptfe thing is a bit of a rumor but alternately You can build yourself hardlines pretty cheap and easy if you use aluminum..


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[twirknolove]

I'm sorry that this is gonna sound rude, but your post doesn't really help here. You just said throw tons of money and time at it and call it a day. That's far from what I'm asking here. I want to know if anyone besides George has put down 800whp on 93 and meth before I waste my time and money on going e85 which severely limits where I fill up, will extend the downtime of my car, and dig further into my pockets to finish the upgrade.

What I'm gathering here is maybe I should adjust my goals to be happy with 700-750whp, get a HFS-3 and go with a 64mm turbo.

From my research of s54, supra and George's big power builds on 93 and meth is you need to run a 70+mm turbo and push the power band to the right if you want to avoid blowing your engine on 93+meth if you're chasing big numbers (ie. 800+)

Regarding your concerns with Meth being a concern with a failure point you really need to read up on issues people have faced with E85 leading to sadness also. Also, I will not be cheaping out on the Meth setup. I will go with a HFS-3 with failsafe that will drop the boost on my boost controller

​ur mean.

[pbonsalb]

How does that work when you are 150 miles from the E85 gas station? We had an E85 forum member from CT visit a few years ago and run at the track with us. He brought a couple of 5 gallon jugs with him but it was still not enough after driving up and racing to get back and he could not drive as much while he was here.

If the car is a local use car and you plan ahead, you can manage. I could do that by pumping in my garage and storing a 55 gallon drum or two that I load into a truck and drive 75 miles to fill once a month, but this is not the level of convenience I want for a car I usually drive 6-8k miles per year. I would need E85 locally as well as everywhere I might go.

The current version of my car is reasonably well set up to maximize power from 93 pump plus meth while still giving very good response. I changed to a bigger turbo, a 9180, to make more power with less boost. I am using the new ts steed and the efr version of the 9180 to maximize spool. I put on a CES extreme port big valve head to minimize restriction through the engine. I changed to schrick 264/256 cams to gain a little upper rpm power while losing no lower end, and I changed from single nozzle to direct port meth. 700 will be no problem and I don't need a monster turbo with a soggy bottom end that takes away from my daily driving enjoyment. I dont presently plan to push further -- I will consider that down the road. However, the 0.92 IWG turbine housing I have is not the best choice for 800 or 900 rwhp.

I am sure I could make more power more reliably on E85, but its an option that would make me drive my car less, not more due to the inconvenience, and that isnt what I want.

[busterhax]

Do you guys have actual E85 pumps available or "Flex Fuel" pumps? I have an E85 pump less than a mile from me but the rest in the area are all in the flex zone.

[cragg56]

Do you guys have actual E85 pumps available or "Flex Fuel" pumps? I have an E85 pump less than a mile from me but the rest in the area are all in the flex zone.

Fill me in on what is the difference

[busterhax]

Flex Fuel pumps..at least around here are "51% - 83% Ethanol" however in the summer, most report that they test to 85%. There are plenty of these around my area, but just one "E85" pump located in Georgetown of all places.

[someguy2800]

All the E85 i've ever gotten was 80-85 percent even when it was supposed to be out of season.

As for what do you do when you run out of fuel and no E85 is close, the obvious thing to do is to have two tunes or a flex fuel system so you can run either, but I totally understand that it isn't easy to do on the stock ECU. In an emergency if you have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator you can turn the fuel pressure down to make it run decent on pump till you can get to an E85 station, not a convenient option but you won't get stranded.

[angeleye540i]

Based on OPs post it sounds like he would be willing to go for the 2 tune option... Makes me appreciate the N54 platform, I can flash between maps (e60, p91, 93 E30 etc) in a few mins after a 16-20 min original flash on MHD, Cobb, and others... So much flexibility (with MHD especially) ... But these rom tables are in the thousands, it's crazy how many more lines of code these ECUs/DMEs have compared to early OBD2 cars...

Anyway alittle off topic in the end there, but having a tune you could flash from OBD or even a back up ECU chip pre/bench flashed, u could swap out with one another, that would work at least without having to limp
Around

[pbonsalb]

I think there are switch tunes for the obd1 cars but not for the obd2. Have to go standalone for obd2 and not everyone wants to do that.

Single turbo 335i is also not an option for the guy who wants to keep his turbo E36. I like the N54 cars for their moddability. And you can buy them cheap -- like $12k. And its a comfortable modern car. I would consider one were I looking for a daily driver project car. We gave an N54 with JB4 in our 08 535xit and I like it as a family car.

[busterhax]

I think there are switch tunes for the obd1 cars but not for the obd2. Have to go standalone for obd2 and not everyone wants to do that.

Single turbo 335i is also not an option for the guy who wants to keep his turbo E36. I like the N54 cars for their moddability. And you can buy them cheap -- like $12k. And its a comfortable modern car. I would consider one were I looking for a daily driver project car. We gave an N54 with JB4 in our 08 535xit and I like it as a family car.

I have dual tune switching on ms41 (obd2 e36). It even works while the car is running.
But its easy and cheap enough on these cars to just get a spare ECU or use your tuner's remote flashing capability to switch between tunes.

[pbonsalb]

I would do a switch tune, but would not want the hassle of changing ecu. If I could reflash from my phone that would also be ok, but I dont drive around with a notebook computer in the car. Has to be easy and convenient or its not worth the trouble to me for a driver. I am not one of those people who is always fiddling around with tuning. Unless something is broken or I am doing a mod, I never mess with anything other than the boost control. Other than pressing a button to change the boost, its just gas and go for me, and occasionally refilling the meth.

[angeleye540i]

I think there are switch tunes for the obd1 cars but not for the obd2. Have to go standalone for obd2 and not everyone wants to do that. Single turbo 335i is also not an option for the guy who wants to keep his turbo E36. I like the N54 cars for their moddability. And you can buy them cheap -- like $12k. And its a comfortable modern car. I would consider one were I looking for a daily driver project car. We gave an N54 with JB4 in our 08 535xit and I like it as a family car.

didn't hacknett do an E36 N55 swap? Did anyone ever see it run? I remember the pictures, getting it to start is another story... Sorry off topic...

Bullet point I think a spare ECu is always an easy enough option, or remote flash etc

[busterhax]

I would do a switch tune, but would not want the hassle of changing ecu. If I could reflash from my phone that would also be ok, but I dont drive around with a notebook computer in the car. Has to be easy and convenient or its not worth the trouble to me for a driver. I am not one of those people who is always fiddling around with tuning. Unless something is broken or I am doing a mod, I never mess with anything other than the boost control. Other than pressing a button to change the boost, its just gas and go for me, and occasionally refilling the meth.

4 phillips heads and a hinged connector to swap the ECU. If the gas tank is empty, it'll take about the same amount of time it does to fill the tank. But I understand the not wanting to fiddle with anything. For those people, I and several others can do dual a tune conversion. It just requires a dip switch and 10 minutes physically inside your ECU.

[pbonsalb]

Is the dip switch remote once installed or do you then still have to pull and open the ecu to change tunes? I have had my ecu out over the years and that is not something I would be willing to do to change back and forth among tunes.

[cragg56]

I think we are going a bit off track here. Swapping ECU's/reflashing tunes would be great if I want to run both, but that's not really what I was looking to discuss. I am not looking to spend money upgrading my car to run on E85 (larger injectors, new fuel lines, new fuel pumps, new tune, etc) just to run around on 93 octane most of the time. Understandably that is a great option for people that are in a pinch and would like to run 93 if they can't find E85, but I don't want to spend the $$$ to upgrade to E85 if my power goals are obtainable on 93 + Meth or maybe I just need to lower my power goals.

My plan is to either run 93+Meth or just go E85 and I would prefer the 93 and Meth route. Just looking for others that have made the power I seek using 93 and Meth, besides George

As I previously stated, the more I research the more I think 800whp would be obtainable with an overly large turbo, but that is not what I am looking for. I would rather have a great streetable car and be happy at 700whp than a peak HP near redline car at 800+whp. I think pbonsalb's build is what I seek


On a side note, my other project that runs on E85 w/ RK tune and 115# injectors has both a 93 octane and E85 tune and changing the flash takes all of minutes if you have a laptop. Just if anyone else chooses to go that route it is possible. Also, you could always go aftermarket ECU with Flex Fuel sensors, but these are all discussions for other threads.

[busterhax]

Is the dip switch remote once installed or do you then still have to pull and open the ecu to change tunes? I have had my ecu out over the years and that is not something I would be willing to do to change back and forth among tunes.

You just run two wires to your cabin and you're good to go.

[angeleye540i]

Still vote pump and meth, I personally find it cooler and less restrictive of an idea at least... If meth is hard to find and expensive for you, as it is for some, then maybe not... Altho I know my vote doesn't count for $hit I think maybe alittle lower of power goals and meth and your for sure good to go... Maybe 700 As some (who know way more than I) have said...

I live in a huge city where they have E85 but it's still not convenient to get unless you live or spend time next to a station and even then, they run out sometimes....

[JOMARO]

I know this has been 2 years
But how did this go ?

[pbonsalb]

He quit this project long ago.

[milKt]

LOL

He bought and sold every part he owned.

[Robocop]

from his for sale thread 2 years ago he was using a an e85 tune and a claimed 600hp
last active yesterday at 830am

[E34nication]

I bought it from him a little over a year ago, it was (and still is) tuned for pump and doesn’t have meth ... I do run 110 during track days (de).

[Def]

I think it depends on what you really want from the car.

93 + meth gives flexibility on fuel sources, but it also introduces the real risk of smoking your engine if any part of your meth system fails at full power. Honestly, the only way I'd do meth as more than a little extra insurance against knock is with a standalone with lots of meth system failsafes built-in. You might need a lot of meth (both in concentration and amount injected) to get to 800 rwhp, but my uneducated opinion is you could get there with work.

E85 is the easy button on making the power, but at the same time, it can be a real pain to source depending on your area. The lower range also makes this more of a pain than it'd seem if you're using your current fill-up schedule. I would get <100 miles to a full tank of E85 with some light Mexico fun in my S13, and that car would still return near 30 mpg when cruising.


One advantage of E85 is the exhaust smells much much better without a cat than 93. No cat on pump gas is gross for a street car IMO, and makes me sometimes not want to drive a car that stinks that much and will make you stink as well.

[GazM3]

would it be possible E85 with a flex fuel sensor linked with some form of boost control, so when 93 octane is only available like long distance touring interstate etc etc, not that you would go touring in an 800rwhp beast very often