Fiberfast build thread.

[ddtech]

Well that blows... You are using an M52 block, but the studs fit properly on my M50.. what the hey. On a side note, I picked up a socket for the task, got it today. It was 15 bucks for a 3/8" socket E6.
e6+wrench.jpg

[ddtech]

Re: DS and trans... Never heard of lining up/marking where the DS meets the trans. However I have heard from many people that the two halves of the driveshaft itself should be noted where they are joined, to maintain the balance.

[FiberFast]

Well that blows... You are using an M52 block, but the studs fit properly on my M50.. what the hey. On a side note, I picked up a socket for the task, got it today. It was 15 bucks for a 3/8" socket E6.
e6+wrench.jpg

Well, I really want them to work but I get the first couple threads and it locks.
This head is aluminum, the threads are fragile and I am not really comfortable with how they were not threading in.
After some inspection, the thread pitch looks the same, however, it looks like the n54 bolt is a larger diameter by some fraction.
They look the same but I can thread the old studs in with my fingers (After some cleaning of course) and I cant get the n54 studs to thread into any of the holes.
The tell tale sign for me is that I can turn them into the thread the same amount (about 3/4 turn) before it locks, every single hole.

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I am in fact thinking I am being trolled.
Putting the additional force needed to get these in will strip the threads, or crack/warp your cylinder head.
Pics or shens, I want to see a pic of your motor with these installed.

[JEC928]

that link (59555358) didn't work. btw, that engine looks way cleaner than mine. yours is probaby local, and mine came from new england area (with car).

another thing, how does one torque an 1/4 in. E6 socket to 20nm when an adapter will need to be used with a 3/8 torque wrench. It seems that the adapter won't be any good after it 's finished with all those studs, if it even lasts without breaking off..

I used the HF digital torque adapter, it's 1/2" drive and comes with decently beefy 3/8" and 1/4" adapters.
The E6 is 1/4", and you MUST keep one hand on the E6 socket to keep it straight on the stud's torx head at all times.
The frontmost ones you do from the top, leaning into the engine bay. The rear ones you have to get under the car.
The length of the digital box plus 1/4" adapter and the width bulk of the digital box means you can only measure your torque for a little more than half the studs.
So you do those first, then setup a wrench that can reach the others and apply it to the done ones. You calibrate your feel to how much pressure your hands put on those, then replicate that feel on the ones the torque wrench cannot reach. It's dicey AF, but the studs do have a little angled smooth section between the threads that go into the head and the threads the header nuts go on, so you can use that as a visual reference as the raised section sinks into the head's countersinks around the threaded holes.

[JEC928]

Well, I really want them to work but I get the first couple threads and it locks.
This head is aluminum, the threads are fragile and I am not really comfortable with how they were not threading in.
After some inspection, the thread pitch looks the same, however, it looks like the n54 bolt is a larger diameter by some fraction.
They look the same but I can thread the old studs in with my fingers (After some cleaning of course) and I cant get the n54 studs to thread into any of the holes.
The tell tale sign for me is that I can turn them into the thread the same amount (about 3/4 turn) before it locks, every single hole.

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I am in fact thinking I am being trolled.
Putting the additional force needed to get these in will strip the threads, or crack/warp your cylinder head.
Pics or shens, I want to see a pic of your motor with these installed.

I only troll in the Off Topic section - this working on E36 is serious business!
I will dig potato picks off my phone in a minute.

My M50 felt the same way. I think the N54 studs have a coating on them, making them fit tighter. I could get about 3 or 4 full turns before they needed the wrench.
I used a little bit of copper anti-seize as lube, even though it throws the torque readings off.

[JEC928]

Ok, here's a pic I took during installation when I was under the car. You can see one I finger-threaded in.


This is after I installed them, using Hard Motorsports block off plates bought from ECS tuning. They did NOT come with the gaskets like ECS's website shows, so I bought them from FCP Euro.
Also that yellow thing is my new favorite LED flashlight.


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NOTE - I have not yet run the car with these installed.. I was delaying while I waffled about buying a welder vs taking my stuff to a shop to get it welded, and accidentally started doing horrible hack-job body work which is taking forever because I am a perfectionist and the hood and fenders are scrap metal that now has wayyy to much bondo and primer. So. Sick. Of. Sandpaper.

But I picked up this N54 stud tip over in the Forced Induction section of the forum, probably the most hardcore engine building section of Bfc.

[ddtech]

JEC928..

Re: "I used the HF digital torque adapter, it's 1/2" drive and comes with decently beefy 3/8" and 1/4" adapters.
The E6 is 1/4", and you MUST keep one hand on the E6 socket...."

I am in the same sequence as homeboy Fiber where the motor is out of the car and/or has been mounted on something i.e., an engine stand (per previous pics in this thread). I can sit comfortably in a lawn chair on do the torquing at this rate. heh....

and

"I think the N54 studs have a coating on them, making them fit tighter. I could get about 3 or 4 full turns before they needed the wrench."

I had the same experience. 3 turns and they wouldn't budge. So I used the socket wrench on 3-4 studs for fun and tightened them a little further. I will use my toque wrench later when I am ready to add the manifold before it goes in the car. Importantly, it did not feel so tight similar to when one is about to over-torque a bolt, but rather very snug, not-easy-to-turn feeling. Not even close to a valve cover bolt (M6/M8, dual) that goes in the head.

Another thing... I have read from a few people that one should only finger tighten head studs. Not seeing why this would be the case and even the same for the N54 studs (?)

[FiberFast]

JEC928..

Re: "I used the HF digital torque adapter, it's 1/2" drive and comes with decently beefy 3/8" and 1/4" adapters.
The E6 is 1/4", and you MUST keep one hand on the E6 socket...."

I am in the same sequence as homeboy Fiber where the motor is out of the car and/or has been mounted on something i.e., an engine stand (per previous pics in this thread). I can sit comfortably in a lawn chair on do the torquing at this rate. heh....

and

"I think the N54 studs have a coating on them, making them fit tighter. I could get about 3 or 4 full turns before they needed the wrench."

I had the same experience. 3 turns and they wouldn't budge. So I used the socket wrench on 3-4 studs for fun and tightened them a little further. I will use my toque wrench later when I am ready to add the manifold before it goes in the car. Importantly, it did not feel so tight similar to when one is about to over-torque a bolt, but rather very snug, not-easy-to-turn feeling. Not even close to a valve cover bolt (M6/M8, dual) that goes in the head.

Another thing... I have read from a few people that one should only finger tighten head studs. Not seeing why this would be the case and even the same for the N54 studs (?)

Ok, I agree they look the same... Here is what I am gonna do (Because I would rather use these if they work) first I am going to inspect and measure them carefully with some micrometers and tell you what the difference is (I can just see it with my naked eye so my guess is its a few hundred thousandths) next I will verify the thread depth and pitch (Looks to be correct) then I will chase the holes with a tap to clean the threads and check fitment. I see allot of other people talking about using these, but I am thinking maybe this is some kind of BMW trolling where you get the new guy to strip his exhaust threads... ok I'm kinda twisted...

[JEC928]

Ok, I agree they look the same... Here is what I am gonna do (Because I would rather use these if they work) first I am going to inspect and measure them carefully with some micrometers and tell you what the difference is (I can just see it with my naked eye so my guess is its a few hundred thousandths) next I will verify the thread depth and pitch (Looks to be correct) then I will chase the holes with a tap to clean the threads and check fitment. I see allot of other people talking about using these, but I am thinking maybe this is some kind of BMW trolling where you get the new guy to strip his exhaust threads... ok I'm kinda twisted...

Fiberfast my friend, I post in your thread for two reasons:
1) To be helpful,
2) You have that technical engineer vibe - you are my people.

When you posted, "I'm going to use micrometers," I got a warm fuzzy because accurate measurements are my professional game. Measure them up and let us know the results!
I have my used M50 studs and the used M52 studs I took from the junkyard with the exhaust manifolds, I will measure them also with mics.

[FiberFast]

Fiberfast my friend, I post in your thread for two reasons:
1) To be helpful,
2) You have that technical engineer vibe - you are my people.

When you posted, "I'm going to use micrometers," I got a warm fuzzy because accurate measurements are my professional game. Measure them up and let us know the results!
I have my used M50 studs and the used M52 studs I took from the junkyard with the exhaust manifolds, I will measure them also with mics.

I definitely appreciate the input, there is a few pages of me just kinda rambling back there. I will try and get at this tomorrow night, life is hectic right now and I got allot going on.
Also I am going to need those block off plates to get the nuts to clear I think. The stupid side of my brain wants to do more work and build a jig off the oem header and cut/weld the raceland headers to fit (If possible)
Don't know if I am gonna do that yet as I would need to purchase a tig welder for the stainless but the thought is rolling around, I think there is an adapter setup for the mig I can use.

[JEC928]

The hardest part about this hobby is resisting our natural inclination to "Space Shuttle", that is pursuing ever-increasing levels of perfection and complication which means pouring time, money, and materials into what is essentially a near-worthless lump of worn out German metal.

The originator of the phrase as applied to project cars is Crab Spirits. Look up his Z31 Space Shuttle build thread on Ziptied for the heights of this dread affliction.

Still a better hobby than hookers and blow, all things considered.

[mboor]

Jec928 is a helpful guy, outside of OT. He's not trolling you fiber fast. Lots of people "upgrade" to n54 studs/nuts when they go FI. I can't be much help as I haven't done this on my cars, if the thread pitch and diameter are the same, run a tap down the holes and send me home. Use a 1/4" ratchet if you can thread them all the way by hand, a LITTLE resistance is ok. it's an aluminum head that's been heat cycled many times, and a brand new fastener. Thread clearances may be a little tight, just don't cross thread them.

[mboor]

Still a better hobby than hookers and blow, all things considered.

thats debatable. both cost lots of money and time, and yield the same short term endorphin rush. Neither has yielded anything really positive in my life, except that std test that one time....

[FiberFast]

I hear you, when you have a large skill set it just makes it worse. Kids and bills keep me fairly in check, I have spent less than $1000 on the swap project with a projected $1500 total expected (quite reasonable) however I have probably put another $3000 in the red car with an estimated $3000 left for finishing the brakes suspension tires and cosmetics. If I include the $3500 I paid for the car I figure I will have spent nearly $12000 on the car. That's acceptable for a well sorted vehicle considering you would pay twice that for a new Kia.

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Also looked at the headers last night, front header is dooable, rear header would require so much work it's not worth. So, cut mid pipes or m3 oem headers.

[FiberFast]

Measured them, no detectable difference.
1490320384568-866336950.jpg
Its ok to change your opinion based on the latest evidence.

[FiberFast]

I am going to install the raceland headers after I take a die grinder to them. Guess I will have to measure five times and cut once. Also considering a manzo cat back. What do you guys think? Sounds descent to me.

[JEC928]

Have not heard anything good about Manzo.

I'm waffling between gutting my M3 muffler and dual Magnaflow straight mufflers.

[FiberFast]

Have you heard anything bad? for $250 it don't sound bad...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss81NnGQkHk
Course the Dual Magnaflow concept is not a bad one either.
So I got a bunch of parts.

Transmission Mounts
Moog rear sway links
Oil pan gasket
Valve Cover gasket
Vanos oil line
Vanos soleniod
NGK iridium spark plugs
Low temp fan switch

[FiberFast]

1490458940792-554435495.jpg

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1490459013271-1202437877.jpg

[FiberFast]

1490462156038-1225076647.jpg

For future reference this is how the packaging engineer recomends moving an m5x over any appreciable distance.

[FiberFast]

So next (now that the motor is in the shop) I will begin oil pan and valve cover removal and inspection. Still need to get the s50 cams (possibly next weekend) unfortunately I need to renegotiate my pay at work so I won't be able to purchase parts like I have been, I think I have most of what I need for the swap. Its time to be patient and scrounge carefully, I love craigslist...

[spyderg0d]

Just as a base mid forum question. How much did the m54 studs cross you? For m50 head studs i think it comes up to $80 at the local advanced atarded store. And personally, im sick of saving these studs, pulling the factory stuck ones from old heads, and sick of prefitting them if the nuts havent become froze.

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Secondly.. Sorry to interject so frequently. .. Jec.. Pm me with what body concerns your having. I know i can offer tips and tricks.

[FiberFast]

Just as a base mid forum question. How much did the m54 studs cross you? For m50 head studs i think it comes up to $80 at the local advanced atarded store. And personally, im sick of saving these studs, pulling the factory stuck ones from old heads, and sick of prefitting them if the nuts havent become froze.

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Secondly.. Sorry to interject so frequently. .. Jec.. Pm me with what body concerns your having. I know i can offer tips and tricks.

Was like $25 for a set from ecs and $25 for new lock nuts

[ddtech]

great job for an application packager (?) that raceland looks groovy, no issues with dmv/smog on that one? i have no idea. btw.. you aren't going to R&R the VANOS? inquiring minds want to know. re: oil pan.. i researched some threads day before yesterday and some people insisted on "a light film of rtv until tacky or sticky", whereas others said to use nothing. my old gasket didn't have any, afaik. I did mine yesterday. torque is 10-12nm and my 3/8" torque wrench wasn't clicking at all, when set to anything (like 10.4nm). i don't understand how to use those things.

[FiberFast]

great job for an application packager (?) that raceland looks groovy, no issues with dmv/smog on that one? i have no idea. btw.. you aren't going to R&R the VANOS? inquiring minds want to know. re: oil pan.. i researched some threads day before yesterday and some people insisted on "a light film of rtv until tacky or sticky", whereas others said to use nothing. my old gasket didn't have any, afaik. I did mine yesterday. torque is 10-12nm and my 3/8" torque wrench wasn't clicking at all, when set to anything (like 10.4nm). i don't understand how to use those things.

Thank you.
First your questions,
DMV Smog those race lands are a no no, that being said you may find a cool smog tech. I am going to fab up a new down pipe I think, that way I don't have to cut the one I have and I can use the cast iron anchors for smog inspections with my spare down pipe if need be. I may just have a reputable exhaust shop do this.
I used a light coating (1/16" +/-) of rtv on both sides of the gasket heavy in the corners, I had quite a bit squeze out but I will clean that off once it has dried.
I do plan on replacing the vanos seals when I do the S50 cams. Still need to source the S50 cams but like I said before money is tight for the moment.
I had mine set to 10.4 as well, takes a few turns before it clicks. As long as you have threaded the bolts in you are fine. Those threads are going into the cast iron block, which would most likely eat the bolt heads before the threads in the block.

Now for the other shit, glad I removed the pan. There was a plethora of bullshit in that pan. Little bits of grime and all sorts of junk. I used some fuel and went oil pan mining. Found a lot of gasket maker in there, small bits of metal (probably imperfections in castings ect that wore off over time and landed in the baffle) half an O-ring AAAAAND some bits that look just like fragments of of pistons rings BUT turned out to be some kind of heat cycled plastic (most likely some old gasket bits) I cut the bits up with some nippers and found they were not metal, certainly not bits of compression ring as it would have been extremely difficult to cut. From what I could see without removing the baffle the cylinders look perfect, very little oil coking, looks like a low mile engine in its prime. I found half the bolts on the oil pan had not been torqued whilst removing it, who ever gobbed the gasket material on there did not replace the actual gasket (Double Fail). Now that I have removed most of the garbage that kills engines softly I can dig into the valve cover and see what the upstairs looks like.

Current questions,
I bought two new obd1 325is knock sensors, where do I put these? Torque specs?
Bought a new vanos oil line, torque specs for banjo bolts?
Any bright ideas for plugging the old crank position sensor hole? (Besides leaving it in there)