e36 M3 possible LS Swap

[HJSUSA]

Hi Fellas,

I have a 98 M3 coupe.
I am at that point where I have to decide between turbo e36 M3 vs LS swap.
I have a lot of questions on the swap.

I would buy a new Chevy engine and a T56 trans from Jegs.

Which is the best LS or LT engine to buy?
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines.html


Can I get the LT1? which is the current Corvette engine?

Which conversion kit is the best?

Can I use the Chevy headers?

[Jaxchrisfla]

You're looking at big money if your going with a crate motor and trans. What are your goals?

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[HJSUSA]

500 hp/tq.
Jegs has the engine for less than 8Gs.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Perf...01360/10002/-1
I assume that's hp/tq at the crank.

If I rebuild the engine with 9Cr pistons and add a turbo, its gonna run atleast 15Gs.

[bimerok]

500 hp/tq.
Jegs has the engine for less than 8Gs.

Again, it depends on your goals... If you can afford and/or justify buying crate, by all means go for it.

However keep in mind that on top of $8K you will also need all front driven accessories and associated brackets, engine wiring harness and PCM, new oil pan with pick up tube and deepstick, flywheel/clutch and transmission. Once you factor all of that in, the price will be far away from $8K.

[OKsweetrides]

440rwtq/rwhp:
mild cams and cleaned up heads an valvetrain on any 6.0L+ LS derived block. My bone stock LS3 is just over 400rwhp. My 12.5:1 CR 427 is knocking on 650rwhp, naturally aspirated.
Needless to say, you got a pretty wide range of options if you stay naturally aspirated, but just like others have said; what are your specific goals and budget? What avenue in particular are you looking for?

Plenty of 4.8 and 5.3's are running boost til they blow the engine and then just swap it out for another junkyard motor.
But if your wanting turbo for cheap, look for a truck block. A LC9 or LY6's are good versions to if your looking at aluminum in particular.


LT1? not cost efficient vs the LS for a multitude of reasons.

Youll want ballpark 5K for non engine parts. The PCM/Harness is a big question mark that won't be answered til you know which route and engine you want to go with.

[HJSUSA]

Yes I see what you mean.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-Performan...FYM2pL&vxp=mtr
This package costs almost $13k and then alternator, ac comp, pulleys, driveshaft, install,etc. It can easily be over $20k.

My budget is around $15k-$20k.
The other option is to turbo the motor w/ CES Stage 2.
That all can add up to $20k w/ rebuilding my S52.

[pdsq98gt]

If you go the LT1 route you'll probably have to fabricate EVERYTHING yourself. I don't think there's a set of mounts, headers, oil pan, accessories that are for an LT in an e36.

[HJSUSA]

Are there any other cheaper alternatives to the Vorshlag headers? The price of $1700+ way more than I want to spend.
I know CXRacing has a cheaper long tube, but anyone use a shortyheader?
Like:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Hooker...lds,65958.html

Any input on this engine:
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...nes/dr525.html

It seems to be the best bang for the buck. Almost 500lbs of torque at 4200rpm.

Also I saw some engine mounts that connect onto the factory rubber mounts. But I can't find who made them.
There are a lot of engine mounts on JEGS for under a $100 for different applications, can any of them be modified to fit the e36?

[HJSUSA]

Someone please chime in on these 2 engines:
LS3:
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...gines/ls3.html

vs

LS376/480:
http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ls376-480.html

I am leaning towards purchasing the LS376/480, but on the install documents it says:
User Note: The Chevrolet Performance Parts LS376/480 crate engine comes equipped with the LS Hot Cam and the LS376/525comes with the LS ASA cam both of which are aggressive high performance camshafts that may cause slight surging below 2500rpm under light load. This should be considered a normal functioning occurrence given the aggressive nature of these camshafts.This surging can be avoided by increasing either the rpm or throttle of the engine at the same given velocity.

Does anyone have this engine? I want it to be streetable, and not regret it later. It's the base LS3 w/ Hot cam. (219/228). Base LS3 is (204/211)
It's only a few hundred dollars more than the base LS3, so now is the time to get it rather than put in the cam later.

[squashman702]

I have NAHR headers for sale if you're looking for an alternative for Vorshlag.

[HJSUSA]

So I have talked to a few people and they have recommended I get the base LS3 as the hot cam can cause idle issues.

[pdsq98gt]

That's just because the GM tune that comes with their controller is junk!

[HJSUSA]

So if I get it retuned, it would be good? You know anyone that had the same issue?

[Jaxchrisfla]

So if I get it retuned, it would be good? You know anyone that had the same issue?

You can get a good idle out of almost any cam in a ls motor. It can be tuned to smooth out very well.

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[OKsweetrides]

I bought a crate LS3 for my E36, much more effective to get your desired heads/cam/valvetrain on down the road. With only a tune and vorshlag headers (untouched heads/cam/internals) I'm at ~410rwhp.

Be careful on computers though. The PCM that GM normally sells is rather restricted vs an E38. But it's been a few years since I knew the specifics.

[HJSUSA]

How many of you recommend the Vorshlag headers be coated?
Jet hot $300 plus shipping 20-40% heat reduction? in chrome color. will coat the inside too. lifetime warranty

Local place in tampa - $400 for 2 coatings, said it will reduce the heat by 40%. black color. 1 coating will reduce by 30% $250. Said they can coat the inside for $250 but will reduce the heat by 10%. also not guaranteed since once its run, and has carbon, the coating wont stick. 3 yr warranty.
https://www.facebook.com/EngineArmor...manceCoatings/


Calico $250ish, but unsure of the dec in temp, person said on his car it dropped 7% in temp. black color.

Or uncoated? it 304ss so...

[fallguy]

i think the only coating that really cuts it down is http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/ and over seas http://www.zircotec.com/ all the others are just powder coating with a bit of ceramic on it. The spray transfer process is the only real way to get a thick coating.

[bimerok]

Whatever you do, don't go with Jet Hot. Their coating is piece of shit. I had 2 sets of my and cousin's LS headers coated by them and when they arrived the coating looked like a backyard spray. There were blobs of dirt coated on the flanges mating surfaces and missed spots. When I called them, they acted very surprised that there were issues and had me send 2 sets of headers to another facility in a different state to get recoated. When they finally arrived they were slightly better, but still a pice of shit job.

My headers merge collectors are regular steel and 6 months later started to rust despite the coating. I sprayed them with a heat resistant rattle can and the paint lasts longer than their garbage coating.

They know that most people will not be removing headers and sending them for recoat while waiting for weeks, that's why they can give the life time warrantee so easy.

[HJSUSA]

Thanks Bimerok, your input is much appreciated.

I have learned a lot from reading your threads.

I am leaning towards taking it to Engine Armor in Tampa.
I dont care about the color of the coating.

Is it worth coating the 304ss headers? Someone I talked to at Vorshlag, don't recommend it.
How much he does the LS3 engine produce and how much cooler do the coatings make the engine bay from any of your personal experience.

I have no problem leaving it uncoated.

[bimerok]

I have no data to compare coated vs uncoated as I never ran with bare headers. The engine bay gets pretty hot, however after running LS1 and LS2 for few years on the road and race track, I don't have any heat related issues. Plus I'm very sceptical about coating making a significant difference.

[OKsweetrides]

Thanks Bimerok, your input is much appreciated.

I have learned a lot from reading your threads.

I am leaning towards taking it to Engine Armor in Tampa.
I dont care about the color of the coating.

Is it worth coating the 304ss headers? Someone I talked to at Vorshlag, don't recommend it.
How much he does the LS3 engine produce and how much cooler do the coatings make the engine bay from any of your personal experience.

I have no problem leaving it uncoated.

Your engine bay heat will be significantly affected by airflow and heat extraction. Coating or not, the headers are sucked up close, and the engine kicks off a lot of heat in a small confined space. The coatings buy time before the tunnel gets warm, but will get heatsoaked each time if you drive in traffic extensively

[TipsyMcStagger]

I am leaning towards taking it to Engine Armor in Tampa.
I dont care about the color of the coating.

I had my JTR (Sanderson) headers coated in black by Engine Armor in Tampa. They did a nice job, though I've already managed to scratch them up a bit "perfecting" my method of installing and removing them.

Can't speak to how well they reduce heat because it's not yet running. I wanna say I paid $250 but I'm not positive. I can check the receipt when I'm back from traveling in a week or so.

Tipsy

[HJSUSA]

I guess what i am wondering is how much more heat is there with a base ls3 engine 430hp vs the stock S52 240hp. For spirited daily driving. No track use.
None of the new camaros w/ LS3 engine have coated headers, do I need it?

[HJSUSA]

Tipsy,
Sanderson headers are mild steel.
Vorsh are 304ss its not going to rust and I dont know about the heat quality diff.
Engine Armor quoted me $250 for a single layer quote on the outside that reduces heat by 30%. They have a 2 layer outer coat fir $400 which reduces it by 40%.
They can add a inner coat for $250 which reduces heat by 10%. But headers have to be new,if theres carbon inside it will prevent the coat from sticking.

[bimerok]

There is ton more heat in LS vs S52. You got 2 extra cylinders, less engine bay space, twice the headers, twice the horsepower and you will need a bigger radiator (which will "radiate" more heat). However, if you are looking to coat headers solely for the purpose of reducing the heat, in my opinion it is waste of time and money.