NY98M3's 2017 Build Thread - M52/S52, 6870, AR Designs, E85

[NY98M3]

You don't need a lifter or cams in there to measure piston to valve clearance, just measure at the valve tip from closed to when it hits the piston at every 5° of crankshaft rotation starting at 30°BTDC to 30°ATDC. When you degree your cams, with lifters and cams installed, you will find out what the lift profile is and can see at what point the valves are closest and by how much.

I dont think Im following you on how to do it without the cams/lifters installed.

The 276/270 cams have the a similar lift as the 264/256

276 duration
11.2 lift

270 duration
10.8 lift
___________

264 duration
11.2 lift

256 duration
10.6 lift

The lifters have a spring inside them that keeps them extended, so your test springs just need to be lighter than the lifter springs. The test springs should be just enough to hold the valves up. If you have some spare junk lifters you can also put some glue on the lifter plunger so they can't move.

I have plenty of extra lifters around that I can use to do this with.

Does the spare head have the same size valves? That will also contribute an added variable to not using the same head. You should really just check the clearance with the head you intend to use with a used headgasket of the same kind. If it's s cut ring maybe leave the rings out.

Valves are +1mm oversize valves. Ill be using the same head for checking clearance. I thought about using the spare head until I remembered the valves are oversized.

Spent last night assembling the block. I used Total Seals quick seat to lubricate the bores. Worked pretty well.

[chikinhed]

You will need a dial indicator and a degree wheel.

With the head and head gasket on the block, turn the crank to each 5° increments, starting at 30° BTDC to TDC and to 30° ATDC, and depress the valve at each position until it contacts the piston. A dial indicator can be used on the tip of the valve (no lifter installed) to measure the travel from closed to when it contacts the piston. You will then have a table of exactly how much piston to valve clearance you have through the critical range.

When you install your valve springs, lifters and cams you can degree them to get the lift at the various degrees of crank rotation for the timing you have chosen. These measurements are taken at the top of the lifter which follows what the cam is doing. Compare the lift of the cam to the measured piston to valve clearance at the degreed of crankshaft position to know what your clearance is. Don't forget to take your measurements for the intake cam at full retard and full advance.

This method eliminates the chance of measuring inaccuracies due to lifters bleeding down.

[someguy2800]

The way chikinhed described it is the best possible way to do it because then if you make cam timing changes in the future you can look at your data to see if there is any possible interference. Some might be a bit overwhelmed trying to make sense of the data though and you do need a degree wheel and dial indicator.

Another way to do it would be to put the head on the block with head gasket and check springs in and lifters that have been glued so they cant move. The locked lifters will hang the valves open about .050" Install the chains and cams and set the timing. Now advance the intake cam by applying air pressure to the vanos solenoid. Rotate the motor over by one tooth on tone wheel at a time (6 degrees per tooth) and reach in with a tool and make sure the lifter can still be pushed down off the cam. As long as the lifter can be pushed down by about .050" or so at each point of rotation your golden.

[Colby Colbs]

Just started reading this thread. What did you end up doing about the cutout situation? I make turn downs on a 3 bolt flange fyi!

[NY98M3]

Slow progress, Life is getting in the way...



Picked up a new E36 M3 Turbo tow/support vehicle, now I need to start getting motivated to finish this up.

[E36Mylo]

Love those trucks, been thinking of getting one to tow the M3 as well. Just really hate having car payments. lol

[NY98M3]

Love those trucks, been thinking of getting one to tow the M3 as well.

After 50 miles, I put a Corsa exhaust on it and a solid bed cover. Next up is front door window tint. I can see how guys love pick ups, Ive had over 35 cars since I started driving. Never a pick up.

Buttoned up the Rally Road Porsche brake upgrade, 4 piston calipers with E46 M3 lightweight rotors. Did some front sub frame work, replaced the control arms, and wheel well liners.

[E36 HateR]

After 50 miles, I put a Corsa exhaust on it and a solid bed cover. Next up is front door window tint. I can see how guys love pick ups, Ive had over 35 cars since I started driving. Never a pick up.

I never had one either before mine how will we manage without trucks from now on lol

[GT35Rm3]

I would consider getting Decked bed storage system. I have one in my sierra and use the shit out of it. I can keep all of my tools in the back which allows me to continue to use the rear seats to take clients around.

[NY98M3]

things were going good, cut ring all set



then this WTF! 30/60/and then to 80 ft/lbs. This was with ARP ultra torque lube. This shouldn't of happened at only 80 ft/lbs. These are brand new. I was going to 85 as spec'd by ARP but I usually wait til everything is cinched down.

[dburt86]

Thats some BS

[wazzu70]

Thats no good!

[NY98M3]

Thats some BS

Thats no good!

I couldn't believe it when it happened, Ive done this dozens of times with no issues lol

[NY98M3]

Just got off the phone with ARP. The directions that came in the box say 85 ft/lbs. The tech just told me they lowered the tq spec on these to 75 ft/lbs.

They are sending out a new set. Very good customer service, just inconvenient that it had to happen.

[Butters Stoch]

Just got off the phone with ARP. The directions that came in the box say 85 ft/lbs. The tech just told me they lowered the tq spec on these to 75 ft/lbs.

They are sending out a new set. Very good customer service, just inconvenient that it had to happen.

Are you going to recut the head ?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Just got off the phone with ARP. The directions that came in the box say 85 ft/lbs. The tech just told me they lowered the tq spec on these to 75 ft/lbs.

They are sending out a new set. Very good customer service, just inconvenient that it had to happen.

That doesn't sound like a very good explanation to me.

So the spec is now 75 ft/lb yet they just snap @ 80? I find that hard to believe... I suppose there is zero tolerance in ARP's mind?

[NY98M3]

Are you going to recut the head ?

No, not taking it back off. Frank has a spare "older style" head stud hes got he'll let me use. Ill save the new ones for the next build.

That doesn't sound like a very good explanation to me.

So the spec is now 75 ft/lb yet they just snap @ 80? I find that hard to believe... I suppose there is zero tolerance in ARP's mind?

Seems the way to use the lube is different, before they wanted you to use lube on everything, now they want you not to use ANY ultra-torque lube on the washer at all.

New directions are here: http://arpinstructions.com/instructions/201-4302.pdf

[s13flyboy]

So no lube on the bottom of the studs either, is that how you read the new instructions?

Only on the top of the stud and nut.

[1SLWM3]

Ive had two stretch and one snap on me. Luckily you're able to keep the head on.

[NY98M3]

As per ARP, the revision started after Sept 2016. I dont think there was anything different about the studs, just how they get installed.

- - - Updated - - -

Ive had two stretch and one snap on me. Luckily you're able to keep the head on.

Were they new?

[avee]

Same thing happened to me i got 2 new studs in and no one told me that the method had changed so i put them in and it all went well

[NOTORIOUS VR]

So no lube on the bottom of the studs either, is that how you read the new instructions?

Only on the top of the stud and nut.

You never put lube on the bottom of the studs... ever.

[s13flyboy]

You never put lube on the bottom of the studs... ever.

Thanks for the reply Notorious, switching to cutring/spacer and Molnar's (from MLS/stock rods) I couldn't remember what I had done last time.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Thanks for the reply Notorious, switching to cutring/spacer and Molnar's (from MLS/stock rods) I couldn't remember what I had done last time.

Clean the threads in the block, brake clean and compressed air (computer duster cans are a good substitute if you don't have compressed air where you are working BTW) to clean out all the junk... all studs should go in and out nicely with your fingers.

Then just follow the instructions ARP provides.

[s13flyboy]

Done and done! Having a compressor sure makes things easier sometimes.

Thanks again for the knowledge, NY98M3 love reading your thread, sorry for the thread jack, carry on!